Campag4life

E shifting? Of course not. Campy mechanical. But does Di2 or eTap have the reliability issues reported by a subset of FS owners on the web? No. But if buying a brand new already built bike which I almost never do...I build my bikes frameset up....I would have no problem with Di2 or eTap...they keep getting better and better.


I used to ride off road a bit. My go to bike was a fully rigid 29er. That is still my go to bike for off road. Compliancy through tires and pressure.

garysol1 

WOW.... That is impressive. I had no idea that you were THE voice of our industry. Impressive indeed.

Slick Madone

Aren't you basically stating that it's ok for Shimano and SRAM to innovate, but not Specialized?

Campag4life

A spoof of course. But you of all people who has been on BF for many years, know there are many low information voters on this site which is OK of course and our job to raise the knowledge base.

Campag4life

To me, a false equivalence. Can you explain why you would post the above including failing to mention Campy role in the same mix?

Slick Madone

The post was to point out your hypocrisy of innovation, not specific OEM's.

Campag4life

I worked my entire career in product development and R&D. What do you know of innovation?

Slick Madone

I didn't question your experience, just your hypocrisy. Its ok for innovation to happen with shifter groups, but you seem to have a personal issue with the FS and yet, you don't even own a bike with one?

Profilerz

Over 1000 miles on my di2 expert. No issue so far. I know a few other guys in my area that have roubaix's with no issue with the FS either. I do think just like any machine there are always a few lemons. I will say I have a couple shoulder/neck issues from lifting heavy and some mountain bike accidents when I was younger. The FS makes a huge difference in comfort for me. I also have a GT Grade Ultegra and an old Scott CR1. The comfort of this bike from those especially on a century has been worth every penny and the FS has been a game changer on longer rides for me. To each their own. My two cents is that doesn't appear to be a wide spread problem and I would go for a warranty issue for a replacement, if that's even an option for you. Good luck

Campag4life

My experience begets my insight which you don't possess and hence your lack of grasp and false equivalence.
Its simple. Future Shock has poorer reliability than electric shifting...any of them...Etap, Di2 or Campy EPS.
There are more complaints about Future Shock. It is under engineered. They have been known to make noise, bind and wear out prematurely. If the 500 hour replacement is accurate, it is the most perishable item on a bicycle that comes to mind at its replacement price point. Replacing one isn't cheap. Further its been written that installation of the FS is tricky and like poorly performed press fit BB installations, no doubt contributes to associated failures...incorrect installation.

So you are wrong about any hypocrisy I may or may not possess. I like and support Specialized products, from their framesets to their saddles to their shoes. Their helmets are good as well. I believe they screwed the pooch with the future shock just like Specialized did with their carbon OSBB which was a disaster and a scam they perpetrated on the public to upsell their S-works frames. What does Specialized now sell on their S-works bikes? The same BB used below the S-works in years past on Pro and Expert models...BB30 which is a superior BB.
Most companies make mistakes along the way including Sram, Shimano and Campy...no company is perfect because the people working at them aren't perfect. Specialized with all their talent is no exception either including their hold on their redesigned Allez model with all carbon fork which is recalled as they have stalled production and delivery as well.

Racing Dan

So what exactly is that is wrong with the FS. Why does it "make noise, bind and wear out prematurely."? In what way is it "under engineered"? To be honest you appear to not know even if you claim to have experience and insight. What experience and insight do you have with the FS?

garysol1 

More power to you my friend. I gave up on that responsibility a long time ago. I just come here for the chuckles now. As for the Roubaix/Diverge future shock issue all I can say is that we have sold many many MANY of these and have had no issues, 0, nada. Maybe possibly it is a poor initial build problem or lack of maintenance. I don't know. The only place I have heard of any issues is here on BF. With said my Domane SLR is an outstanding endurance bike that gets the job done with no springs or cartridges. It just works.

Campag4life

Gary, speaking of your bike shop experience which is clearly good to know and many FS issues noted maybe set up related as you say, can you speak to how many Trek BB90 issues and/or warranty returns that come into your shop? Does your shop set them up with grease only?...recognizing BB90 has carbon and not alloy bores...and there are reports of the bores elongating due to wear..perhaps aggravated by lack of crank bearing preload as set...preload helping keep BB bearings seated?


Also, I have to ask about your AWOL compared to other bikes you ride. Where do you ride it and what size tires?
To me, its a super heavy bike and one of the very rare steel bikes sold by a big brand. Do you tour on it with racks front and back? Do you like the bike? Riding position is very upright.


Thanks.

Campag4life

According to some, there is nothing wrong with FS if you read responses here including Gary's experience at the shop and that's a pretty broad swath. So it maybe like any front fork shock common on any mtb...owner experiences vary greatly in terms of positive versus negative experiences with off road air and oil filled shocks. Issues abound but they are the exception and not the rule after many years of off road front shock design evolution and of course rear shock technology on dual shock bikes has improved dramatically.

Any issues with the FS may even become sorted over time. One thing for sure about it if listening to reports, the FS is 'very set up sensitive' The little screws in the top have to properly adjusted. But like any product including press fit bottom brackets, there is a sequence and proper steps to adhere to and maybe its people working on their bikes and getting it wrong more than a design flaw.
There have also been reports on the new Roubaix, of Praxis crank creaking due to the crank itself and not the bottom bracket and some with a creaky seat post due to the way the seat post is attached to the frame.

Of course, there are reports of issues with many bikes. Designs aren't perfect, vary in production tolerances and no two bikes encounter the same riding environment, rider weight and power varies etc.

An arguable point, is, the design is a bit crappy. Honestly I am not a fan of the design and how to set up headset tension. The design to me is precarious and why some get it wrong that may not be the most mechanically inclined...2mm allen screws that if set too tight can bind FS bearings...and of course both tension and torque variance across the head set which puts an asymmetric load on the FS and propensity to bind or rattle if torque not uniform. So I believe the design is a bit crappy. Maybe not horrible, but over the top fiddly to set up.

So I believe a lot of issues with the FS first design and therefore setup related...preload too tight which is a subjective adjustment and adjusted with two screws which is an opportunity for asymmetric tension can bind the bearings and too loose a preload aka common steerer rock and headset 'chuckle' can occur of course which maybe basis for reports of a rattle. As it turns out to again use press fit bottom brackets as an analogy, design robustness can relate to set up sensitivity and why a subset of owners struggle. So I believe the design a bit weak due to sensitivity of proper preload which conventional bikes don't have as most when preload is adjusted a bit tight, there is no shock to bind of course.

FS installation:

garysol1 

Maybe we are just lucky. Maybe it has something to with the Michigan weather but again I have not had any warranty claims into Trek for the dreaded BB90 bore elongation at least not in the past 3 years I have been at this shop. I have read enough reports that I am sure it is a "thing" but I have never seen it.

My AWOL currently has 700 x 38's on it. It is set up as my touring bike with front and rear racks and full fenders. Truthfully I ride it VERY little. I like the bike but I don't love the bike. It makes a fine touring tool but I find it to heavy to be a fun gravel bike or anything else. I doubt I would like a LHT or any other "touring" bikes any better. The new Specialized Sequoia would probably be a little better for me as it is just a bit more aggressive.

Campag4life

Thanks Gary. Since you have access to a broad cross section of bikes to ride, what are your impressions of your new Domane SLR8? Any untoward behavior from the suspension bits on the bike? Seems to be quite popular and perhaps a better alternative to the FS Roubaix.
I personally like the H2 Madone as a go fast bike and have considered owning one. Not a big fan of BB90 and one bolt saddle clamps tho. Like the Madone as a slightly more comfortable aero bike.

garysol1 

I totally agree with you with the BB90. Given the option I would rather have a threaded BB just because it is such a tried and trued system. I also agree with you that the one bolt seatpost clamp can be a pain. I have found though that if torqued to spec they really do not move but getting the correct tilt is more work than it should be.
I feel like the Domane is brilliant in eating up the miles quickly. Absolutely no pedal bob at all. I have my slider set down one line softer from the middle setting. We do have some older riders on the SLR with the slider set all the way down and I can see a LOT of movement when they pedal but I have never heard them complain about it. It climbs well and I certainly cant detect any flex anywhere on the bike when hammering on it. It is not what I would call a fun spirited bike for me though. It is a bit to muted but then again that is what it was designed to do I guess. If I had the finances to own 2 high dollar bikes the Domane would be a keeper. As it is I have a 2018 Emonda SLR frameset on the way to me and I will be swapping everything over to it from the Domane on Monday. The Emonda is ALMOST as compliant as the Domane but the handling makes me smile everytime I ride one. I truly enjoy that bike and the fact that the frame is sub 650grams is just a bonus. I dont have near enough time on the Madone to have any real opinion that matters. Its a bike we SHOULD sell more of but we don't. Really no excuse for that. Here in SW Michigan the aero of the Madone should trump the light weight of the Emonda.

As a side note.... I did have a Roubaix SL4 for years before I had the Domane. I would have a real hard time if I had to pick one over the other.

Campag4life

What great comments Gary and we are totally on the same page. I hope when you get the Emonda built and weather cooperates in MI, you do a full review on BF with the excellent clarity you just wrote with...a man who understands cycling and bicycle tech. Emonda would be my short list to replace my Roubaix SL3 Pro with Campy...but no reason to change it...just keeps on ticking and not the bike that slows me down, that's for sure. Seems like the perfect bicycle for me. Roubaix SL4 you owned has a tad stiffer rear end than the SL3 and in theory a more responsive bike but not without a slight ride harshness penalty. All said, the Roubaix SL3 won the Paris Roubaix Classic race so who could fault its energy transfer with slightly more forgiving ride quality and less stiff rear triangle compared to the SL4 some have even complained about on an endurance bike like the Roubaix.. and I sure can't twist the frame with my meager watts like a pro can and never felt the Roubaix SL3 was lethargic...more me lethargic than the bike.

Cancellara as you know raced the Domane in the TdF back in 2015:
https://www.bikeradar.com/gear/artic...-domane-44681/

..a bit unusual but tall praise given an entire array of models available by Trek when both the Emonda and Madone were raced...hard to fault the Domane which is a great bike. But all said, I prefer the Emonda SLR too...for its weight, decent ride quality as you describe, close to the Domane but maybe a bit more road feedback myself and others would prefer, great handling and goldie locks H2 geometry for an aging cyclist like me...smack between pure slammed race bike and endurance geo.

My reason to choose the Roubaix SL4 you owned with Tarmac like stiffness over a Domane...which you call a jump ball in performance and I again agree...is both BB30 over BB90...BB90 carbon bores seems absurd to me because carbon has such poor wear resistance compared to alloy bore BB30... and Trek's way to cheap out at the expense of their customers and advertise lower weight which it is...but also the abysmal single bolt saddle clamp that takes such high torque when a std. 2 bolt is so easier to manage both in torque and adjustment not to mention assured saddle staying at the same tilt. Dam Trek with all their great engineering not delivering a bit more reliability to its customers in this regard...they make sure wonderful bikes...but others as you know will not complain.

Thanks again for all your spot on comments and congrats on your incoming Emonda...to me, one of the most desirable and balanced bikes on the market.

TPrice

I have 2017 Roubaix that has had a popping noise and the headset would come lose. My LBS has fixed the problem.I believe they torqued the headset a little more.

RadialHead

I’m at just over 2200 miles on a 2018 Roubaix and haven’t had any knocking or bearing issues (knock on wood). The only hiccup I’ve had was when I swapped to the 0mm headset cover...I didn’t apply quite enough pressure downward as I was tightening the FS collar which allowed the cover to rattle since the rubber boot wasn’t completely flush against it. Luckily it was a quick fix!

Moonigan

My Diverge has had done around 180 miles and had one cartridge replaced after 70 miles due to knocking. I’ve just come back from Italy and it’s knocking again so I’ll be taking it back to the shop. The knocking is apparent if I drop the front wheel from a few inches onto a hard surface. This disappeared as soon as it was replaced the first time. I’ll be asking the shop to contact specialized and if it can’t be fixed I’ll be demanding my money back.

OldTryGuy

Big time bummer.


Another 101 miles today 2018 Expert, so far it's been good 2 go.

Jazzguitar

600+ miles on my Diverge Comp and no noise or other problems. Not easy miles either, mostly singletrack and trails.

Campag4life

Gotta believe that vast majority of FS knocking on Diverge and Roubaix bikes is due to misadjustment...largely because the preload on the FS is fiddly...see the video I posted on adustment and hard to get it right....or harder than conventional headsets...and too loose the thing will knock perhaps with greater sound propagation due to the complexity of FS.

All said, I wouldn't own a FS bike. If I need more front end compliance than 28c on a road bike, I would find a pre FS Diverge or equivalent.

Bryan C. 

So far so good with my 2018 Roubaix. Still pretty new. I'm looking into changing out the blue spring for the yellow spring. Also interested in replacing the top out spring as well. I can't seem to find any detailed information on how to swap out the springs in the Future Shock. I saw the video on how to pull the shock out but that seems to be about it. I'm also curious as to what the tools look like to swap out the top out spring. My internet searches haven't been very useful. Does anyone have any pictures or links they would like to share?