elemental

[Unnecessary lengthy backstory]:
It's been a while since I posted here (sold my fixie in 2007 and have been messing around with geared bikes for a while), but I will be graduating in May and relocating for a job (!) so I have/will have some spare change and want another fun run-around-the-city bike.

I would like to have another fixie that I could use to dart around town on errands/when I get bored, ride to work (probably 10-15 miles or less), and use for road training rides when I don't feel like worrying about gears. I haven't really been following the fixed market much since I haven't really had the money or space for another bike in a while, but my first though was Jamis Sputnik. They used to be stealthy, have great parts for the money, and be light enough and flexible enough in geo to be usable as a road bike as well. I rode one in 2007 and was really impressed with it. Unfortunately, when I went on the Jamis site, I found that for 2010 it has been converted into a faux-retro hipster bling machine that now weighs more, costs more, and uses crappier parts (at least for what I want). This meant I had to give the whole thing more thought, and here's what I think I want:

[Actual question]:
I am thinking in two directions. Originally, I wanted something very simple, light, and fast with slightly relaxed track geometry. Unfortunately, the whole market has gotten much more faux-retro, as in heavy shiny bikes with cromo frames that would be embarrassing to ride (and weigh as much as my singlespeed 29er). The other option seems to be serious track bikes, like the the Felt TK series (I am thinking TK3 based on price, though I could swing a TK2). I had an '06 Langster that was one degree slacker in the HT and a little steeper in the ST, and that was a lot of fun for road rides (except the aluminum fork - that sucked). Would the TK3 with a 20mm shorter wheelbase and one degree steeper headtube be that much quicker-handling? Is anyone riding one on the street that could comment? And is there a light aluminum bike with slightly more relaxed geometry (and no anodized NJS knockoff Alex parts or 24 pound curb weight) I should think of?

Thanks in advance for all your help. This was the first place i thought of for info now that I am thinking of getting back into the joy of fixed.

elemental

How did I misspell "geometry" the same way twice in the title? That's embarrassing. Oh well, I promise I know how to spell it. "Geometry." See?

carleton

I would start by spending the afternoon hitting up the bike shops and taking some for a spin. That will give you some point of reference. You can probably find the following in stock after visiting several shops:

- Trek T1
- Felt TK3
- Fuji Track
- Fuji Track Comp
- Specialized Langster
- Globe (a division of Specialized so any S dealer might have some)
- Giant Bowery
- Bianchi Pista
- Jamis Sputnik

If you are lucky and they stock mid range:
- Felt TK2
- Fuji Track Pro

You can research the geometries ahead of time from the manufacturer's websites.

My favorite off-the-shelf bike for commuting/urban riding was the Bianchi Pista Concept. These days I'd recommend a Felt TK2 just to buy up into the mid-range. If you are familiar with bikes (which it seems that you are) you probably won't like anything entry level. Plus the graphics package of the TK2 is much nicer than the TK3.

carleton

The Trek TK1 is also a great option.

It got trashed when it first came out because of the compact geometry. But that was when NJS was all the rage, so that was to be expected. Try one size larger in the TK1. I'm a 57/58 on most bikes, but a 60 on the TK1.

mihlbach

Its pretty much always been that way. Look around a bit more. There are many times more options today than in 2007. However, fixed gear bikes (including high end track bikes and track parts) tend not to be as light as road bikes, because there is no advantage to weight weeneism on a one-geared bike. At any rate, there are hundreds of models you can buy that are reasonably light enough, including models with steel frames. I personally wouldn't be looking at a Felt TK series track bike for "darting around town, running errands, or road training rids".

elemental

Thanks for the tips carleton. I guess a little background on me would help- I started serious cycling with a fixed gear in 2007, sold that after a few months for a geared road bike (loved the fixie, but was not fast enough for group rides on it), and have lately been doing a lot of mountain riding (when you live in central PA, it would be a shame to let all that rooty rocky goodness go to waste). Now that I am moving somewhere a little more urban, I want another fixie. Having been part of a club/team for the last three years, I have gotten to ride a lot of bikes, work on a lot of bikes, and I recently finished building my own bike from the frame up (Bianchi SOK 29er set up 1x9 with a Reba). I would like to think I have some idea of what I like in a bike (and that I could appreciate, as you suggested, mid-range parts), but my fixie geometry knowledge is pretty much limited to my old Langster, which felt great at 74 degree HT, 74.25 degree ST (they have since lamed out the geometry a little more). Could 75 HT/74 ST really feel that much more aggressive? One degree of HT angle is noticeable on my XC 29ers, but not a huge change.

Basically, the bikes I'm seeing seem to fall into two categories: Track bikes (TK series, T1, Track Pro, etc.) that are spartan, light, and have track geometry, and "track" bikes (Sputnik, Beatnik, Langster, Bowery) which are much more fashionably-designed, have more road-oriented geometry, and weigh more (straight gauge cromo frames, steel forks, heavy deep-V knockoff wheels). What I really wanted was something like an '09 Sputnik, which was geometrically a bit relaxed, but still light, stealth, and had a very nice parts kit for the money. I don't see how weight wouldn't matter on a singlespeed- if anything, I would be more sensitive to how much bike I have to drag up hills, especially in the rotating mass. I can see why a 14lb track bike is pointless, but I also think a 24lb "track" bike is just excessive. I mean, how much can a bike that simple weigh?

I'm assuming this is because of the geometry?

LupinIII

bikesdirect motobecane pro track?

then sell off the wheelset and throw on some aeroheads or open pros

mihlbach

The geometry isn't really what concerns me. I'm sure its good enough for riding around town/errands/training etc. I don't find geometry to be all that important for non-competative road riding. I am just as happy riding something with road geometry or something with a 1 or 2 two degree steeper headtube.

On the TK2 and TKS, there are no eyelets for water bottle cages and the tubes aren't round, rendering it difficult to use hose clamps or any other type of device to hold a bottle cage. Do you plan on training with a camelback? There is no clearance for fenders if you should happen to need them, and probably no clearance for tires larger than 25mm. It comes with track drops, which suck on the street. Is it even drilled for brakes? And if it is drilled for brakes, those rims don't look designed for rim brakes. And it looks like a thief magnet. The TK3 isn't particulary light either considerings its aluminum. Felt's webpage claims just under 18 points for a size 56. My size 58cm steel frame and fork track bike (Bareknuckle) with front brake, brake lever/hoods, and water bottle cages is barely a pound heavier than that and it doesn't even really have weight weenie parts on it.

You aren't going to find many stock FG bikes out there that are much less than 20 pounds regardless of frame material, but I doubt very much that any of them (even cheap ones) weigh 24 pounds or more. Most of the weight is in the components, not the frames. If you want a light fg bike that is set up well for road riding, you are going to need to either build it up yourself or start with a stock bike and continually upgrade parts.

elemental

Yeah, these are some good concerns. The TK3 and TK2 are both drilled for a front brake, but you are very right about the rims. That's a good point. I was going to pick up a new wheelset somewhere along the way, but this would make that a more pressing issue. I have a spare 700C front that has a machined surface I could run in the short term. I don't use cages or bags on any of my bikes (I prefer jersey pockets for bottles), so no bosses is actually sort of a plus. I did think of the fender/tire thing, and is something I'd have to deal with. So the real issues for me would be tire/fenders and getting a brake-compatible front wheel. I was planning on immediately replacing the track drops, as that bar shape is not my favorite.

I am not sure how bad theft is in Madison, but that is also something I should be aware of. It's a big bike town, and bikes everywhere could mean thieves everywhere. I did see a lot of fairly flashy stuff locked up when I was there a few weeks ago.

It may be a little off-topic, but how is your Bareknuckle set up, especially in the wheels dept? It sounds like a very nice build. I also just realized I won't be far from Milwaukee, so it might be fun to look into some of the Ben's Cycle stuff. The more i stare and stare at manufacturer websites, the more I think it would be fun to just build my own. My Bianchi ended up costing about 1/3 of what it would've cost off the shelf, and it is exactly what I wanted (well, to the extent that I could afford it).

PedallingATX

sounds like we have similar tastes in bikes, elemental. I ride an '07 Sputnik and love it. I was also really disappointed when I saw the new design. Lame. If you want something similar, consider getting a Soma Rush frameset and throwing a CF fork on it. You could also get an IRO frame and put a CF frork on it. Either way, you will have nicer steel w/ a CF fork. Also, call your local Jamis dealer and double check that they don't have any '09s in stock. You could also check ebay for some '09 sputniks.

mihlbach

My Bareknuckle is set up primarily for fast road riding with Deda road (not track) bars, front brake with hooded levers. The rear lever I just sawed off and left the hood. Sugino 75 cranks (but now I would rather go with SRAM Omniums). The wheels are custom (built by me), specifically for road riding using KinLin 30mm rims, a formula rear track hub, a very light (sub 100gms) weight formula front road hub with bolt-on skewer, sapim cxray spokes. Front wheel is radial with 24 spokes, the rear is 28 spokes, 2x. Wheel weight is about 1550 gms, which is not weight weenie, but very stiff, strong, and more than 500 gms lighter than most standard fg wheelsets. The idea behind this wheelset was to get the best wheelset possible for as little money, so I went with budget hubs and spent more money on better spokes and rims. You could build with nicer hubs of course, but this doesn't really effect performance. But the key to a light FG wheelset is using a light front road hub, rather than a boatanchor track hub.
I could have easily gotten this wheelset under 1500 gms with shallower rims, but I was more interested in a stiffer stronger wheel so I went with a 30mm rim. The Kinlin rims are as deep as deep Vs, but barely heavier than standard box section rims...they are really great rims.

filtersweep

2009 Soma Rush--- butted Tange tubing.... one bottle mount-- actual track geometry (which basically only means a higher BB). You can build it up yourself, and there is no reason it won't come in around 17 lbs--- if that matters. I didn't want a BD frame, since I don't need fenders/racks... and I didn't want a built bike (Langster, etc..) since I wasn't really into the components or the compact design--- although no doubt they offer decent value. Technically, I guess the Rush has a subtly sloping TT, but I can't really see it.

I do a lot of road biking, and I deliberately did NOT want roadish geometry on a "track" bike--- wanted something different and wanted to be able to ride the mindrome without scraping pedals.

fixeddude

They're new, but hearing good things about Wabi bikes (wabicycles.com). SS/fixed with road geometry, quite light.

elemental

This thread has given me a lot of very interesting ideas- thanks to everyone who has contributed.

This sounds like the sort of build I would like. Do you have a picture? (Don't worry, I won't steal it or copy it. Just curious).

It sounds like I can either buy something off the shelf in the $600-$1000 range (still very smitten with the TK3, assuming it rides like the old TK2 I rode a few years ago) and upgrade it to what I want, or build my own (liking the look and color options on the Milwaukee frames) exactly how I want it and spend $1400+ up front. Hmmm, I think I am noticing a pattern . . . .

Mongoose441

I would just get A road frame and an Eno Hub. Works fine for me

My beater is an old Kona Jake the snake with an eno.

elemental

Yeah, I have been thinking about one of those Raw Hi-Bright CAAD8 frames with the full carbon fork, that could be worth building an Eno for. And it would look awesome with big black rims and a black Selle Regal and - d'oh, cable guides. Hmmm . . . .

Soil_Sampler

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...lset&highlight

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...e%21&highlight

Sixty Fiver

Still can't see the appeal of riding a stiff as hell aluminium track frame on the street unless you just want to make laps around the block.

1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 531 steel road / sport frame, no weight weenie parts, and a vintage Lycette leather saddle.

21 pounds... with my lighter racing saddle, 19.5 pounds (but not as plush).

Fast as sin, it handles like it's on rails, rides like a dream, and uses it's stock randonneur bars which are great for accelerating and hammering out of the drops.... but it's not stealthy.

I can ride this bike all day and still want more.

TofuPowered

i second the rush. i rode a dolan kadet (now called the pre-cursa) for about a year. aluminum and very very jarring. rush is plush. (sorry, had to)

indiglow

It sounds like, maybe u want a Jamis Sputnik?
So, buy a Sputnik:

https://aroadbike4u.com/product/jamis...09-51912-1.htm

https://www.bicyclebananasstore.com/P...e=JA09_Sputnik

https://cgi.ebay.com/Jamis-Sputnik-Tr...item20af8fd0d4

Dont know your size, etc. but if u really want one be patient and Im sure u can find something.

EDIT: https://www.listown.com/boats/la/200911/170353.htm

mihlbach

Sorry, I don't have any photos right now, but if you want a lightweight, cost effective fg wheelset for road riding, these threads are the best...