MK313

Maybe not the right forum for this, but I'm not really sure what is, so please move as appropriate. Whatever happened to Titanium bikes. Several years ago, they were the hottest things going, but now I rarely hear about them being built any more.

AdamDZ

Isn't Scandium is the king now, I hear. Also steel is cool again

njkayaker

Carbon.

AdamDZ

But Ti was supposed to be better than Carbon, no?

cyccommute 

Scandium is just an alloying agent with aluminum that allows for better welding.

To answer MK313's question: It's still around. And still expensive. Here's my two (both made in my own state)




I even commuted home last night on the Moots.

cyccommute 

It is. The cockroaches will be riding Ti bikes while snacking on the carbon ones after the Apocalypse

Steely Dan

if you're willing to join the dark side (bikesdirect.com), Titanium is not that expensive anymore.

here's my BD.com titanium pony that i commute with every (non-rain) day. titanium frame, full ultegra everything, and decent mavic wheels for 2,000 bucks. i'd call that fairly affordable, or at least not egregiously expensive. there's even a lower end model of my bike that's only 1,700 bucks.


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truman

Kent and Kate Erickson gave me a tour of their Ti framebuilding shop when I visited Steamboat. Now I'm Ti-curious.

tjspiel

Depends what you mean by better. For the same money you can get a lighter, stiffer carbon frame. Cheaper Titanium frames can be flexy unless you use oversized tubes which of course makes them heavier. Still pretty light but not as light as carbon.

A friend of mine rides an older carbon/Ti frame. For all the worries about carbon durability it was one of the Ti tubes on his frame that cracked (right around one of the bottle cage mounts). It was replaced under warranty with a better frame.

njkayaker

Maybe yes, maybe no. But that wasn't the question!

cyccommute 

Mine was only about $1000 more. And it was made within 30 miles of my front door and I got to put it all together...Neener. Neener

fietsbob

The raw material Titanium Metal is expensive.. and has to be welded in a special inert gas filled Jig to keep Oxygen away from the weld

OTOH if you Knock the bottom out of the labor costs by having a carbon fiber composite frame made in China
they can be made pretty cheaply.

zacster

I was at the Serotta factory last week and they are still making Ti, but it seems that they do a lot of carbon these days as well. The one question that I had I never had a chance to ask: What %age of the frames are carbon vs. Ti, vs. Steel. They do make some carbon/ti frames too, so maybe the best of both. Their frames are VERY expensive.

And yes, they did show the special welding jig. They also make all their own fittings, shells, cable stops etc...

And anybody interested can visit on Fridays at 11am in Saratoga Springs, NY. Go in July so you can see the races (horses, not bikes) too. Nice town.

csimons

Nice pad!

tsl

Carbon has certainly eclipsed Ti in road bike frames due to the lower materials and labor costs. Until they figure out how to attach racks (with reasonable weight capacity ratings) to carbon frames, they're not likely to become mainstream for commuter bikes. All the metals will likely remain the material of choice in commuter bikes for the foreseeable future.

The nice thing about Ti for a commuter bike is it's pretty much indestructible, and it doesn't require paint. The scratches, wear and tear commuter bikes see in bike racks just buffs right out with a Scotchbrite pad. Good as new.

For this reason, earlier this year I picked up a '96 Litespeed Classic. It doesn't have rack mounts, but the purpose of this bike is to see if Ti lives up to its reputation for ride and durability, before I pony up for a custom-made Ti commuter.

This is the first build-up, using components borrowed from my steel roadie.


I've been using it to commute on the middle two days of my four-day work week (and for weekend rides). I haul in my stuff with a racked bike on Monday, use a racked bike to haul it all home on Thursday, then ride the Litespeed on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. It's been working out real well.

I'm liking the frame a lot, as much for the classic parallel 73° geometry as for the feel of Ti. I haven't decided if I like Ti or steel better, but since I commute year 'round, I wouldn't want to subject a custom steel frame to the road salt, so in the commuting role, Ti will be the choice for me.

If you're looking for an off-the-rack Ti bike for commuting, Lynskey's $1,400 Cooper CX frame looks like a good platform to build from.

sonatageek

Didn't Ti sort of come into play in a big way when the old USSR broke up and Russia hit the market with a bunch that they had stock piled?

fuzz2050

That's true of pretty much every type of metal. Oxygen messes up welds, that's why every type of arc welding uses a shielding gas. Both Aluminium and Titanium pretty much have to be welded using a TIG set-up with Argon as a shielding gas, while steel can get away with cheaper alternatives, however, I have yet to see a steel (or any welded frame) that wasn't Tigged together.

tarwheel 

Ti is still around and a great choice if you want a lifetime frame. I've got a ti and a steel Eddy Merckx, both with in the same size and geometry and nearly identical components. They handle the same but the ti frame rides smoother and is my choice for long rides. It is perhaps 1 lb. lighter than the steel frame. The main advantages to ti frames, in my book, are that they won't rust and you don't have to worry about scratching or chipping the paint. Of course, you can always paint a ti frame but that sort of defeats some of its key advantages. Part of the reason why ti frames are lighter is because you don't have to paint them, and paint adds weight to frame. I generally take my ti bike when traveling because it is so easy to scratch and chip paint when loading and unloading bikes.

If I were going to invest all the money it takes to buy a custom frame these days, I would seriously consider ti. Assuming that you have your size and geometry needs dialed in, a ti frame should last your lifetime.

khutch

My LBS owner is concerned about the durability of carbon and he says many of the other shop owners he knows are as well. He is afraid that carbon frames are going to be a big problem for the industry as they age because, according to him, they are starting to see a high failure rate in older frames. He will still gladly sell you a carbon bike though, or one with a carbon fork as he did to me. I don't suppose he has a choice in the matter since that is where the demand is and especially so for the high end, semi custom bikes that are his main business. All his new personal bikes are Ti though and if I ever did decide to have a custom bike built I'd go that way too. For now aluminum and steel are fine for me.

Ken

tarwheel 

This is the dirty little secret in the bike industry.

CCrew

Planned obsolescence baby! 10-20 years you HAVE to buy a new bike.

But then many that buy high end carbon don't keep a bike that long anyway, they tend to flip them for the latest greatest thing, and on the second hand market warranty is a moot point.

Chris_in_Miami

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I'm curious why titanium bikes are so frequently equipped with carbon forks. I don't want to fan the carbon durability flames, but it seems like a "lifetime" frame should have a fork to match... Is it strictly a cost issue or does ride quality come into the equation?

cyccommute 

Mostly cost, I'd suspect. A titanium fork from Dean is $500 (and is ugly as sin) while a good carbon fork can be had for around $300 (and it's purtier). Weight can be a factor too. Titanium is denser than aluminum so a complete titanium fork would be rather heavy while carbon is extremely lightweight.

dynaryder

I've got the cross version of that bike. Got it second hand off eBay with Cane Creek wheelset,plus complete second CC wheelset with studded tires,and BB7 disc brakes. It's my current nice weather commuter,and once I settle on tires(w/appropriate width fenders) and gearing,it'll prolly be my all weather commuter.

Is nice. Is very nice. I like.

AndrewP

Tatanium welding is much more difficult than steel or al because it is so hungry for contaminents including Nitrogen and hydrogen. Not only does the arc have to be shielded by argon but also the back side of the weld. The shielding has to be maintained till the metal has cooled.