TiHabanero

Subjects of comparison: 1986 Fuji Touring Series V America and 1985 Miyata 1000 without splined tubing.

I will not go into great detail about frame material, braze-ons and all that stuff. I am interested in relaying my surprise to how different the two bikes are. In 1986 I was working in a shop that sold Miyata and Fuji. I bought the Fuji that year, and acquired the Miyata last year, new in the box frame set with crank pedals, rack. Long story on that, but it came to me from the store manager of the time, with whom I still am in contact with. Built the Miyata up using what I had on hand after realizing the stock wheels will never be found, along with some other things.

The ride comparison: Both bikes ride well, the Miyata feels sportier than the Fuji JRA(just riding along). This may be due to wheel size (700c vs. 27") or frame design, although both are very similar. Once loaded the difference is very noticeable. The Fuji becomes a bit unglued with a touring load of 40 pounds on it, solely at the rear wheel. The Miyata remains composed and a well mannered touring machine with the load, and in fact is very stable with just the rear wheel loaded at 40 lbs. Unloaded both bikes are pleasant, however the Miyata was more interested in faster paced unloaded riding than the Fuji.

Surprised. When using the underside of the down tube H2O bottle holder on the Fuji, the bottle rubs against the front fender slightly. However once the rider mounts the bike and shoves off, the rub is gone. What I found is the fork on the bike is so soft that it gives under my weight (230 lbs) and moves about 12 mm creating a nice big gap for the water bottle to breath in. I do believe the frame tubing has a lot to do with this bike's loaded mannerisms.

To keep it brief, it really is amazing how I never really noticed this before, but now that I have the Miyata, it became apparent after the first week of riding. There is no question in my mind why the Miyata 1000 is so highly praised by many as the best mass produced touring bike of that era. I am willing to bet that it compares favorably with quite a few customs, too. In fact, it might be the better bike due to affordability.

oddjob2

Thanks for the review Jeff. I'm surprised the Fuji fork flexes so much. I don't have experience with these two specific models, but I guess having a few Miyatas in my fleet and no Fujis says something.

dailycommute

Yes, interesting. What size are the frames? I agree the flex sounds a bit off if it moves that much. The fuji iv and v are touted are good tourers but certainly the miyata 1000 and trek 720 are the most desired based on general pricing. Getting a nos boxed 1000 sounds like you definitely made some friends in the business and earned some excellent karma.

romperrr 

I appreciate the depth of your review and the details. Very interesting. Thanks!

Cougrrcj

Try swapping the wheels around and test-ride again to cancel out any wheel/tire differences influencing your review.

Check out the respective catalogs:

https://www.classicfuji.com/1986_31_F...tion2_Page.htm

Miyata Bicycle Catalogs: Miyata Catalog 1985

I wouldn't think the Fuji's fork should flex that much.

ScottRyder 

I'd be interested in seeing the bottle and fender set-up.Can you take some photos? I've got a 60 cm TS V that I rode for awhile with fenders and the water bottle was no where close to the fenders. Very curious indeed!

My own experience with the ride quality was it handled much better with weight on the rear, I probably carried 30 pounds or so for extended day tripping. Without the weight it felt twitchy.

Scott

TiHabanero

So I measured the movement of the fork again. Perhaps it was a wee bit optimistic on the the tape yielding apprentice helping me out. The distance when just sitting there is about 6mm, not 12. Huge difference. When riding the fork flexes often and it is visible with the naked eye. The water bottle being used is a Specialized, the most common out there. The bottles I used back when the bike was new had smaller necks on them and there was no clearance issue. The wider neck on the SBC bottle runs interference with the fender.
The front wheel is not the issue, there is plenty of clearance to the tire, it is the fender that rubs the bottle when no one is on it. The whole bike is not NOS, it is the frame, fork, headset, crank/bb, rear rack and seat post that are NOS. The wheels, saddle, stem, bars, der, tape, shifters, chain have all been added to it, and are not stock. The pedals are NOS Superb, but those have come off and 1986 Look Carbon pedals (PP96?) have been put on.
The Fuji runs a straight line wonderfully well, however when it is loaded she does not like high speed cornering. The Miyata takes it well either way, loaded or unloaded. The Fuji frame is soft, which I believe to be characteristic of Fuji bikes at that time. Miyata always seemed to be tighter bikes, stiffer than most. At that time racing was also in my blood and the Fuji rep talked me out of getting a Mark Gorski Signature frame set, and into the Team Miyata frame set because he believed the Miyata had a stiffer frame.
All these years riding the Series V and I just noticed the flex of the fork. I guess if you ain't got somethin' you ain't gonna know the difference between havin' it or not havin' it. Without the Miyata, the Fuji was fine, but now that I know the difference you can bet the 1000 will be put into commuter service on Monday!

The Golden Boy 

What are you doing here?

You know the intArwebs rule: "Pix or it didn't happen."




I've never had the fortune of riding either the TSV or the Miyata 1000. However, I'm fortunate in that I do have 3 other class A touring bikes in the 1985 Trek 620, 1985 Trek 720 and the 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP.

There is a big similarity in the rides of the 620 and 720. They're both pretty much the same geometry. While some people refer to the 720 as "flexy," I would just say it's not as stout as the 620, and with them set up very similarly there's not a lot of weight difference. The Voyageur SP is an entirely different feeling bike mostly because the top tube is shorter and it has a shorter wheelbase. Not that the chainstays aren't long- it's just that the Trek tourers are THAT much longer than the average touring bike.

Do you think that the ride characteristics are more a result of tubing or of geometry, or a combination of both?

For all intensive porpoises, I believe that once you get to a certain plateau, tubing isn't a big factor. However, what you're saying about the TSV being noticeably flexier- that should be something to think about. Is that flex a result of 30 years of stress or is it actually the tubing giving more than the Miyata tubing?


Pix. Do it.

VintageRide

And don't forget the rider's weight having a bearing on frame flex and overall handling. A person weighing 150 for example might have a different experience with either bike, and it would appear based on what was discovered that the Fuji might well be more suited to a lighter cyclist, and wether one prefers a stiffer frame.

TiHabanero

I guess big guys like me can make frames behave outside of their design aspects. The Fuji tubing is flexy. I believe it is Ishiwata, and is quad-butted. Likely .9 on the ends, but the ends may be short butts, which will affect the stiffness of the tube. Both are good bikes, the Fuji is the fancier of the two aesthetically. Frame size is 58 Fuji, 57 Miyata. I will say 27" wheels do not turn in as well as 700c, and this could also be part of why the Miyata corners better. I am not sure if the Fuji frame has fatigued enough to flex like it does. Although it has been with me since birth, the bike has only seen a handful of extended tours and just a few short ones. All in all, probably less than 6k on the clock. The Miyata has never been ridden other than the test rides it just went through. I do believe the Fuji is fresh enough for an equal comparison.
Although I never owned a Trek 620, I have had occasion to ride one several times. The Miyata 1000 and the 620 are similar in frame stiffness, albeit the 620 chain stays I believe are considerably longer than the 45cm on the 1000, and as such is not as fun to rail into a 90 degree corner.
Just picked up some Conti City Ride 37c tires for the Miyata yesterday at the shop. They fit under the fenders perfectly. Monday begins the test as a commuter bike. I bet it will do very well.

ScottRyder 

I agree, photos would help quite a bit, especially interested in seeing the fender line on the front wheel.

Scott

The Golden Boy 

I find I have a great problem comparing the rides of my bikes. When I'm riding the 720, I think "this is definitely my favorite bike." Then I'll ride the 620 and think, "this is for sure my favorite bike." And then I'll ride the VSP and think "this is absolutely my favorite bike." And then over and over again.

Lascauxcaveman 

I'm a little like that, too. I've learned not to get to sure about anything in that way unless I can ride bikes I'm comparing with the same wheel set.

TiHabanero

The Fuji has27" wheels, Miyata 700c. Not a good way to change wheels to compare the two by switching out the wheels. If I had a way to get pics of the fender issue I would.