Richard Cranium

Has GPS technology diminished the excitement of brevet riding? Has carbon fiber /aerodynamic technology made cycling theses distance too easy? Have 1000 lumen lighting systems destroyed the ambiance of night riding on back country roads?

Your thoughts on these matters is appreciated.......

FBinNY 

None of the above.
If it does affect your personal enjoyment, then it's easy enough to solve. Skip the GPS and don't ride a CF bike. The light issue is a bit more complex, because other people's super bright lights may affect your ability to ride bu moonlight. Here the only option will be to ride apart from people who want to turn night into day.

Rowan

It still requires a person to pedal the bike of their choice over the designated route. A simple, reliable bike computer is the one bit of essential equipment, but after that, all the rest are accessories, or perhaps even window-dressing.

The two areas that have advanced perhaps are the understanding of training physiology, and on-bike nutrition.

It is interesting to see how some have become slaves to training, blinded by the figures if you like. There was an article not so long ago based on the premise that people don't how to win because they are concentrating on the figures way to much. The next Olympics may tell that story (again).

unterhausen

The lights are definitely a lot better. Not sure that would make me any faster. I do like riding quiet country roads in the dark. Back when I used a sidewall dyno on my commuter, I would sometimes turn it off on roads where I knew traffic was unlikely. But I don't think that bright lights distract from the enjoyment I get from riding at night. I don't think it hides anything.

I'm perfectly happy with the CSPS (cue sheet positioning system). I use a GPS when I don't know the route, just because I get anxious on long stretches without a turn. On some of the Eastern Pennsylvania rides, there is a turn every mile or so, and I know a lot of the roads, so I just go with paper, no electronics at all. Using a GPS requires some discipline, I know of a lot of people that have done bonus miles because of them. I have never used a computer on a brevet. I have done plenty of riding just following a cue sheet, including all 3 1200k's I have done.

On bike tech, I thought about getting some aero rims, but it just didn't seem to make sense. Otherwise it's the same as always. My fastest Super Rando series was done on an early '80s racing bike, and the only downside is that it gets tiring to use downtube shifters on a 600k. Maybe I would get used to it, but I have moved on. Bikes don't pedal themselves, that's for sure.

If someone would invent a miracle drug that makes it easy to lose 40 pounds, that would for sure make randonneuring a lot faster for me

thebulls

Let me know if you ever find it!

In answer to the OP: I'm slow enough that even with a GPS helping me to notice turns, randonneuring is plenty exciting enough, if by "excitement" you mean risk of DNF'ing because you're riding challenging events. I've never ridden a CF bike so I wouldn't know. Most randonneurs I ride with are using proper lights that comply with German standards and are not blinding. Being able to see the roads so I can avoid potholes instead of crashing into them improves the ambiance for me. Where the super-bright lights are ruining the ambiance is on the bike trail when I am commuting.

DrIsotope

It's called methamphetamine, and it will take the weight off for sure. There are however generally some other undesirable side effects.

znomit

GPS trackers are great for the folks watching at home.

I think having your self driving car follow you around the course will be handy too.

Machka 

No drugs ... but I started logging all my calories on MyFitnessPal, and kept my calories just under their recommended limit ... and I lost 55 lbs in about 8 months in 2015.

There's an element of technology for you ... using an online calorie calculator program like MyFitnessPal to track things. You can do it with a computer or as an app on your phone.

Losing that 55 lbs certainly has made a difference for me.

unterhausen

wow, nice weight loss. I have lost weight in the past, it just takes some discipline and paying attention to not eating anything with massive calories for no reason. I've really had problems with discipline lately

Drew Eckhardt 

Losing weight is so easy I dropped 65-70 pounds without getting hungry making me the same size as I was riding a lot 19 years ago and lighter than when I graduated high school.

People habitually eat more than they need, although stopping is simple - just eat less. If you're still hungry after the 30-60 minutes it takes your appetite to catch up eat more. Always eat when hungry so it's not too hard to stop when you should. Don't eat when you're not hungry. Food with more fat and protein helps some due to longer lasting satiety, but weight loss is mostly about quantity.

On long rides you may need to be more pro-active about eating, although you only need to provide for the energy coming from carbs which should be just 20-25% of the total in a trained endurance athlete. I usually eat half a Clif bar (~125 Calories and 22g of carbs) each hour which works through 200 miles.

With hunger coming mostly from glycogen depletion, you'll do better riding a lot of endurance miles than tempo and beyond which use disproportionately more of it. The previous two times I grew past 200 pounds I plateaued at 180-185 (still 40-45 pounds past a good 135-140 pound riding weight) when I got more fit, added hard days, and replaced my easy rides with tempo days. That shouldn't be a problem with this crowd.

That's a lot like a miracle drug, but all natural with negligible negative side effects.

Machka 

Thanks.


And going back to the topic of technology ...

I have lost weight before using the old pen and paper method of tracking calories. Back in the old days, I got books out of the library and had to do quite a bit of research to determine how many calories the things I ate had. And I created a bit of a "database" (all still pen and paper). I'd stick with it for a few weeks, lose that extra 5 lbs, and then quit tracking because I just couldn't sustain it.

As the year's passed, I've used other programs and things to track calories any time my weight crept up a little bit. But none were sustainable beyond 3 weeks.

This time, I needed something that I could sustain longer than 3 weeks.

I asked for ideas in our Training and Nutrition forum (use of technology there!) and MyFitnessPal seemed to be the best choice of what was mentioned. It is so easy to use ... in comparison with the others I tried. Guess that's what advances in technology give you ... ease of use!

Another little piece of technology that has come in hand is a food scale. That's been eye opening!! What I think of as "1 serving" can be 2 or 3 servings. Oops!

thebulls

Thanks, Machka! Congratulations. Maybe I will give MyFitnessPal a try. Unlike Drew Eckhardt, who is the only person who I have ever heard of who finds weight loss "easy", I am like the millions of people (and hundreds or thousands of randonneurs, judging from many who I know or have seen riding) who find it hard. I've used DietPower as a tracking tool in the past, but it was pretty-much a pain to use unless you happen to eat things that are in its "menu".

Nick

StephenH

I suspect the biggest change has been in mapping the routes out, using online sources instead of printed maps.
GPS- I don'tuse one, nothing against them. They solve some problems, cause some other problems. Best circumstances are when you have a small group riding, some using GPS and some watching their cue sheets.
Lighting- my observation is that if you're using marginal lights, they work a lot better in pitch blackness, it's when you go through town with headlights and shadows where you have problems. Bulbs burning out is no longer an issue. Taillights seem a lot better.
Carbon fiber, aerodynamics- not so much an issue unless you're trying to "race" a brevet. We've got people out there on recumbents, steel frames, tandems, steamer trunks in front of the handlebars, etc. Randonneuring is probably the branch of cycling least affected by technological progress, which tends to be oriented towards racing.

JFuller

Regarding the topic of technology in rando bikes.. I think an interesting comparison is Ira and Jan's bikes from the 2014 Oregon Outback ride.. they had pretty comparable finish times I think yet their bikes are in stark contrast, with Ira's being much more newschool and Jan's being hardly different than something from the 50's. There's a multitude of different 'eras' of inspiration in long distance cycling today and it's nice to have the variety!

I think good and efficient headlights are a win-win. I don't think they diminish the feeling of being deep in the forest at night, but do offer more safety. Not all modern technologies offer clear benefit IMO though for this type of riding

Drew Eckhardt 

Most people make weight loss unnecessarily difficult by going against millions of years of evolution. I gained significant weight after breaking a leg and was one of them for 6-7 years until I realized what was going on.

When we got hungry we caught or found something and ate. With kills bigger than needed to sustain us we ate anyways, packing on the pounds of fat to get through times of no food. Hunger staying gone longer after doing that would be counter-productive to gaining the fat needed to survive times of privation, so eating excess doesn't reduce our hunger later in the day.

With effectively unlimited access to food during scheduled meal times most people are in the grow-to-survive-lean-times state.

You can estimate energy out, estimate what's usable from the food you eat, and arrange for a negative balance which is hard. With three meals a day that may produce periods of hunger where you need to resist your natural urge to eat which is also taxing. Energy substrate utilization favoring glycogen from exercise can lead to runger which is more difficult to resist.

Instead you can eat naturally when you get hungry but no more than it'll take to be sated in 30-60 minutes after your appetite catches up. With hunger less impacted by fat store utilization you'll have an energy deficit. On hard days you'll be closer (on one side or the other) to calorie neutral although with plenty of days riding at an endurance pace that's fine.

That's natural, sustainable, and easy once you break your eating-when-not-hungry habits like popcorn for movies. No counting calories, no ignoring hunger, and no forbidden foods. Easy.

You just need to think outside the three-square-meals-a-day box.

I usually eat six times a day, meals are usually at most half-sized like half a sandwich not a whole, and consequently I'm now 135-137 pound pro climber sized with abs not 205 pounds with a sweaty crease between man boobs and belly or a typical 185 pound adult male weight like when I ate more traditionally but rode frequently.

Rowan

Interesting to read about the technology in your posts on your weight loss Drew. Now you might post something meaningful to the thread, eh?

I do have to admit to being a late adopter of smartphones, GPS and electronic routing. But after upgrading my phone substantially about 10 days ago, I am having a little fun exploring the functions linked in with Strava (private account only).

There are rumblings here in Audax Australia about eliminating the use of brevet cards entirely and relying on tracking. I foresee issues with battery life and general reliability, so it will be wait and see for me on that. I still like paper route instructions and a completed and homologated brevet card is an important-to-me memento.

joewein

I started using smart phones / GPS on my bike and dynamo lights even before I rode my first brevet, so I never really experienced the strictly low-tech way of doing brevets. Though I usually still bring a paper cue sheet to the ride, I don't normally use it for navigation, only to confirm cut-off times or PC distances.

To me the appeal of brevets is to experience the countryside with its views, the exposure to the weather and seasons (same as on personal rides), but also the challenging time pressure of a timed event and the experience of riding with others. Electronic navigation aids or modern lighting or other newer technology allows me to concentrate more on these aspects. It takes nothing away, except perhaps the extra bonus mile from misreading a paper map ;-)

guidoStow

Sure does seem to be a tough year for discipline...

Richard Cranium

I think it is a good thing to realize where, when and how cultures, and recreations evolve. I rode my first brevets in 1983 - and the routes and lighting in those days did in deed challenge a rider's ability to remain on course.

I've always been a tech guy, and was just a little bit miffed when riders started showing up with laptops and mapping programs around '95....

Anyway - the legs, the pace and the effort still make the ride - thanks for the feed back...

Machka 

... Until e-bikes start being an accepted bicycle choice for long distance cycling ...

znomit

Be kinda scary riding a 250W ebike at 3am without any sleep. Though a 15 hr 400 would be fun.

thebulls

I don't think it'd be fun to ride rando distances on what is essentially an underpowered motorcycle on public roads. If I wanted to ride a motorcycle, that's what I would buy. I think a lot of the attraction of E-bikes is that they let people ride a motorcycle on bike paths. All those people who are rah, rah about E-bikes would throw stones at you if you rode a moped on the bike path, but there is essentially no difference between the two. One burns hydrocarbons locally, the other burns them somewhere out of sight, converts them into electricity, transmits it to you, and you charge up your E-bike with hydrocarbon-based electricity. Heck, you could run a moped on soy fuel or ethanol and make it entirely renewable, but still I think the renewable fuels enthusiasts would throw stones at you if you road the moped on the bike trail. And yet they're fine with people riding electric-powered motorcycles at 25mph on paths that were build for bicycles going 15mph.

ThermionicScott 

I've only been at this for a couple of years, but I find modern LED lights and the option of GPS/cell phone course correction to be really empowering. The history of the sport is filled with -- one could even say characterized by -- riders adopting the latest technology to make riding long distances more achievable and pleasurable. The nice thing about randonneuring is that should you find it "too easy", there's always something you can do to add to the challenge.

steve-in-kville 

When I worked night shift years ago we had a few guys take that route... stay awake all week long, eat like made but never gain weight, etc. It caught up to them, though!

Tourist in MSN

When I wanted to lose weight, my doctor told me to cut back by about 500 calories a day, which he said was about right for losing one pound a week. He did not want me to lose weight faster.

Thus, if someone is setting a goal, there is your new goal - reduce by 500 calories a day and keep records on your weight to see if you are averaging a pound a week.

Now for the bad news, you have to work just as hard to keep the weight off. If you assume that once you met your goal you can go back to eating the way you used to, it does not work that way. Most people that lose a lot of weight will put it back on in a few years after they lose motivation.