Flounce

I'm planning out my next bike setup - you may have seen my other thread on a custom bike build - for long brevets e.g. 400km -1200km. Among all the various decision to be made (lighting, gearing etc), one thing that I have not yet researched is how I'm going to store my stuff.

I have a Revelate Designs Viscacha seat bag that I can use, but it seems that a handlebar bag is the way to go, whether or not I also use the seat bag.

Questions:
1. do you agree that for a 1200km brevet a handlebar bag is really helpful ?

2. If so, what handlebar bag do you recommend? I'd like to get one that can withstand heavy rain and keep contents dry.

If you don't think a handlebar bag is helpful , please share your set up and what particular bag (brand, model) etc you recommend.

Whether or not I have a handlebar bag will likely affect design of the custom bike, so I need to figure this out.

Many thanks to all.

dim

Ortlieb:

unterhausen

I think the classic ranonneuring bag is a very good way to go, especially if you get a custom bike. The ones that mount to your handlebars are ok, but I've been on a ride where we had to wait for a guy that was trying to fix his handlebar bag. A randonneuring bag sits lower on the bike and the rack and decaleur keep it from moving.

As far as keeping things dry, the classic bags are made of waxed cotton, which is mostly water resistant. I think what you'll find is that most randonneurs use ziploc bags for waterproofing. If you want your clothes to remain dry, you can put them in larger ziplocs or get dry bags. If you are on a rainy 1200k, everything is going to get wet, just the way things work.

clasher

My Dill Pickle Handlebar bag has been handy for everything over 200k that I've done so far. Doesn't need a rack or decaleur. I've never had a problem with it moving around too much unless it is empty it will bounce a little. It's made with synthetic material and has a inner waterproof liner. I did a 400 last year that had about 10 hours of steady hard rain and this year a 600 that had similar amounts of rain and nothing in the bag got wet except for the times I opened it. I use a dill pickle saddle bag to carry stuff like clothes since I usually get off the bike to change I don't really understand putting all my stuff up front in a bigger bag but it seems pretty popular on the internet. For a 200 or 300 in the summer I don't use the saddlebag since the smaller handlebar bag can carry more than enough food and stuff. Most I might have is a windbreaker or leg/arm warmers.

Flounce

Thanks for explaining, I was ignorant of the fact that those little boxy bags on the front of the bike sat on their own racks and were called "classic randonneuring bags", that's what I was originally referring to when I said "handlebar bag" as I thought they were attached to the handlebar somehow.

So allow me to rephrase my question:

"What are the best classic randonneuring bags - or other bag at the front of the bike - that you would recommend? Please provide brand and model."

thebulls

It's pretty hard to improve on the Gilles Berthoud waxed-canvas bags. I have a GB28. They are expensive but if you have done enough randonneuring to determine that you'll be using the bag for many years to come, then it pays off. Like Unterhausen says, if you're out there for four days of solid rain, stuff's going to get wet no matter what bag you use. So everything goes in plastic bags, except rainwear.

Optimally, you need a bike that's designed to carry a rando-load up front if you're going to be a front-loader. So that relates to your custom bike thread.

As I understand it, you haven't ridden an SR series, yet (apologies if incorrrect). I wouldn't be spending a ton of money on new equipment until you've finished an SR series and have the chance to see what works for other people. People have ridden SR series (and 1200's) on all manner of bikes & luggage. I would try to make the most of what you have before buying more stuff.

Nick Bull
RBA for MD:Capital Region

Flounce

NickBull, thanks for the recommendation, I'll look into that bag. And I'll be taking your advice about finishing a series before pulling the trigger on a new bike.

In the meantime, I am doing the research on my various options and will make modifications along the way as I learn more about my rando bike needs.

Chris Pringle

Agree with Unterhausen. There are very waterproof handlebar bags like the Ortlieb but things inside will eventually get wet from the constant opening/closing in a rainy randonnée like PBP or LEL. It's best to pack things individually inside that you want to keep dry. The waterproofing material the bag is made of becomes a moot point.

Aesthetically speaking, if this is a factor for you, the classic randonneur front bag looks much better, too. They sit on a small front rack. The only caveat is that in order to easily and safely reach your items over the handlebar, ideally the bag should be really big & tall, esp. tall which also requires a decaleur to sustain it. This will depend on your handlebar height. Be aware that you could then be stuck with a huge bag that you carry all the time whether you do short rides or not, unless you can afford buying a couple of different size bags. The most sought-after bags are by Gilles Berthoud in France and Guu Watanabe in Japan. As they are handmade, they are not inexpensive. Your other thread clearly indicates that this will be your dedicated bike for brevets over 400 Km and ultra distance, so having a large front bag installed all the time might not be an issue to you. At this point, you really want to seriously consider a bike with low-trail front geometry which plays very well as long as you keep some good weight up front. With the front of the bike unloaded, some people report their low-trail bikes feel too nervous and could even shimmy at certain speeds. I personally didn't want find out.

On my own custom build, I wanted total flexibility since this was going to be my main bike for everything -- from short training and fun rides (0-3 lb. of gear), to brevets (8-12 lb. of gear), to more heavy-laden touring (loads of 15-30 lb). I don't race. After careful evaluation, I went with a smaller custom front bag that I carry all the time, although I have to get off (actually, stop/unclip is what I meant to say) the bike to safely reach things. It is oblong-shaped to keep things a little more aerodynamic. For the longer brevets only (>400 Km), I install a small handlebar bag to easily reach what I need, mainly food, medicine, wallet and cell phone. If the handlebar bag is well-adjusted and of good quality it should stay put on the handlebar. It is small, convenient and easily dettachable so I can take it with me inside at a checkpoint. I settled with a mid-trail front geometry for a tad more stability while still keeping things fun. Very VERY happy with the outcome!

My regular "lite" set-up (front shot):


This was my full bag set-up at PBP last year:

Flounce

Beautiful bike and set up, Chris.

But I'm a little confused.

I've been using a large seat post bag on my current bike, a race bike, and I thought the reason for switching to a front bag (traditional Rando bag or handlebar bag) for longer brevets was the convenience of being able to quickly access the bag while riding. If I can't access a front-mounted bag while riding, what are the reasons it is preferable to a rear bag?

Thanks.

Chris Pringle

My front bag, as you can see, is not a boxy traditional rando bag. I designed it and had it custom-made here in Mexico. I wanted it an oblong shape (more aerodynamic) and shorter since I rarely keep it full. It also zips from the front. So, in the process, I lost the ability to easily open it on-the-go. I usually stop/unclip. It is definitely much easier than a rear bag since I don't have to fully dismount, then find a place to lean the bike to look for things back there. This is why on long brevets, I complement it with a handlebar bag with my most essential items. Hope this makes sense. This is my method, but everyone has his own.

Now, the traditional "boxy" rando bags are even much easier to open to get things out. To keep this process optimal, ideally the top of the bag should be at (or close to) handlebar height. This is why they make various sizes for these bags since people's handlebar heights vary a lot. When you have a full bag, as it is usually the case on >600 Km brevets, reaching things sitting at the top inside the bag should be easy. I've had some people tell me that when full, finding things in these bags can be tricky since all your belongings + food are in there and things tend to shift while riding. When empty, you'll still have to dig your hand in there to get things which might be easier/safer to stop. What's important here is that in either case, whether full or empty, there is no need to fully dismount which translates into time savings. When not doing brevets (i.e., you bag will be pretty empty), you'll still be carrying a big front bag all the time. Alas, there is no perfect world. As Nick Bull suggested, you need to experiment by doing some long brevets to see what works best for you.

Here is an article from Jan Heine about the traditional Gilles Berthoud rando bags. You'll see what I mean about the bag being at handlebar level. His bike shop, Compass Bicycles sells them, too.

unterhausen

The Revelate Vischacha will get you through an SR series just fine. Segregate stuff into smaller bags, because you will end up dumping the bag in the middle of the night, maybe even on the side of the road. Just saying this because it will save you money and you will learn why randonneurs have their own style of bag

Flounce

Thanks for explaining Chris, that makes a lot of sense.

Is it reasonable idea to use a decaileur (spelling?) such that I can interchange a big boxy Rando bag for longer brevets, and a smaller bag for less long brevets? I understand that the bag top position relative to handlebar height may be different for big vs. small bag.

From reading Jan Heine's description of the Gilles Berthoud, I'm sold.

Also, on another note, what is the optimal location for mounting a dynamo powered light when using a handlebar height traditional boxy Rando bag?

clasher

If you're going to get a custom bike you might consider mounting the light to the fork blade somehow, either with a knob that bolts on to a low-rider mount or some other kind of custom braze-on, especially if you plan on swapping decaleurs. Most of the B&M lights I've seen suggest they mount to the fork crown but that doesn't work with the traditional French style bags. Some folks mount 'em upside down on the racks but don't do that, it's silly since they have shaped beams to put the light on the road. This was another nice thing about the Dill Pickle bag that I found out after I started using it was that it left enough room for the light to just bolt to the fork crown, easy-peasy. This would be a problem with a smaller bike though.

It's hard to see it because the helmet blocks it in my picture but there's a B&M light mounted right to the brake caliper. The rear bag has a piece little support made out of flat bar that is hard to see but it was a hack attempt to make my own "bag man" type support... the rear light is also bolted to the bag support since it is the fender-mounted version I took of my old rando bike. I'll upgrade to the seat-stay version soon enough. The saddlebag only got used on my 600K this year. I used it on both my 400s last year but probably won't bother unless the weather is gonna be really cold in the morning and night times.


Here's the bike I used last year for brevets with the same bags, wheels and lights. I like the carbon bike a lot more. I almost bought a custom bike but decided to get another season under my belt and I got a decent deal on the used roubaix and it's worked out pretty well,

Chris Pringle

I don't use a front rack with decaleur, so I will direct you to this article (also by Jan Heine) who explains in good detail how decaleurs work and how you should go about choosing a couple of rando bag sizes.

First, this is what Peter White Cycles has to say about this. They are the U.S. distributor for most dynamo-powered lights:

The beam shapes of German headlights are optimized for the height of the fork crown on a standard bicycle. Positioning the light too high or too low makes the beam less effective.

This is a really good question as I struggled with this for a while. Unfortunately, with a rando or some big handlebar bags, it is not possible to do the above -- install your dynamo light above the fork crown.

I originally tried mounting the dynamo headlamp on the fork leg -- right around the middle. I personally didn't like this. Not only is the illumination a little sub-optimal being a little low (esp. for far-away illumination), but it also casts a shadow of the front wheel turning in front of you. I kind of got used to it but was never pleased with this front light set-up.

So, finally, I asked the guys at R+E Cycles to recycle an old bicycle chainring to create this special bracket for me (see image below.) I asked for one, but they actually sent me a couple of different sizes. This bracket positions the headlamp up and just slightly in front of of the bag. The illumination is fantastic and no more shadows. These are the little details why I love working with those guys.

shelbyfv

One point to remember about waterproof bags is that if water does get in, it stays in. I drowned a camera in an inch of water that accumulated in my handlebar bag.

thebulls

Attached photo shows my PBP setup. Light goes on a VO mount under the GB bag, where it is sheltered from rainfall. GB bag does not affect the beam since it cuts off at the top, anyway. My bags have little effect on aerodynamics: GB bag acts somewhat as an airfoil; Carradice is sheltered by my legs and the front bag. BQ wind-tunnel tests show that these bags have little aero effect. Much less than a flapping jacket!
10792867.jpg
As to whether a decaleur can work with both big and small bags. Kinda, if the decaleur is set for the small bag and too low for the big bag. But if you buy only the big bag, you won't find yourself wanting the small. The weight difference is negligible unless you're at 5 percent bodyfat and already carrying minimal gear on the lightest possible bicycle.

For me, GB bag by itself is enough for summer rides without rainfall. For a bad-weather ride I'll add a small wedge bag for under the saddle, and shift the bike-repair stuff back there. For spring and fall rides where big temperature differences can be expected, I'll end up adding the Carradice, where the bike-repair stuff can go, accompanied by high-volume, low-density clothing. For winter rides, I can often drop back to the wedge bag or sometimes even just the GB bag! On those rides, you start the day wearing everything, and then you wear it all day.

The constant in all this is the GB bag. I never find myself thinking "if only it were smaller and weighed 2 ounces less, and I have to jam-pack everything into it because it's so small, I could finish this brevet two minutes faster."

(FWIW, I'm using a Luxos-U nowadays because it has a much-wider beam pattern, plus I can charge my iPhone while riding. I also replaced my custom low-trail Rivendell fork with custom low-trail cantilever Rivendell fork. Other than that, my setup in 2015 PBP was identical to 2011.)

Flounce

thebulls-

Thanks for this. As I'm leaning toward the GB bag and Luxos U, I might replicate your setup.

What is the name of the VO mount? Trying to find it online.

unterhausen

If you are getting a custom frame, have the builder make you a rack
Here are Velo Orange's racks
https://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...decaleurs.html

I don't see any mounts, the racks have eyelets on them though. The upside-down Edelux probably works pretty well with just those mounts, but a Luxos would require an arm of some kind. The BuM IQ-X can also be mounted upside-down. There are usb power supplies, people seem to like the Sinewave

hilltowner

I think this must be it: VO Rack to Light Bracket

fietsbob

Carradice Carradry bags like Ortlieb is using welded seams and synthetic materials where their traditional Line
is using the swelling of the cotton canvas when wet to keep things inside the bag dry.

The Canvas and leather Berhoud use the old canvas Properties too .. they will get you more Style Kudos in your Club.

vwchad

I have an older version of this Acorn bag and absolutely love it. Looks great, works great, keeps things dry in some seriously wet Washington rides: https://acornbags.com/products/mediu...nt=22207336260

I thought it would take some time to get used to having a big brick of a bag up front, but it took no time at all. I'd actually say that it wasn't even a matter of getting used to it, but riding with it once or twice was enough to realize that I'd really been missing out on a fantastic piece of nearly essential riding gear. I now get a little irritated when riding my carbon fiber bike that doesn't have a handlebar bag and I'm stuck stashing things in my jersey. The ability to find food or clothing easily, even while riding, is a nice convenience. I never take it off, even if it is only holding a cliff bar, cell phone and spare tube. Holds adult beverages nicely for post ride recovery too. Also, as previously mentioned, the style points are huge if you're in the right crowd that appreciates such things.

I have it sitting on this rack which is relatively inexpensive when you start shopping for separate racks and decaleurs:
VO Pass Hunter Front Rack with Integrated Decaleur - Racks, Decaleurs, Accessories - Accessories

I mount my light to one of the threaded eyelets on that rack. I have this light:
https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/co...light-hanging/

This all makes for a great set up that I'm very happy with.

If you want a custom bag to go with your custom bike, Swift industries makes some really nice bags too.

Products ? Swift Industries