RandyBaton

Any idea what this is? found in my Nans loft, it was my grandads. According to my dad my grandad said it was rare due to being one piece (not sure what that means)

Not 100% sure of the age but my dad said he had it before they moved to birmingham in 1963

I can't really see any manufacturer markings. There is a small 7 followed by 7541 on the bottom of the frame and then again on the forks and then what looks like OLI8OI on the bottom of the bottom bracket.I wouldn't have put it past him to have painted it himself.

It has a bayliss-wiley bottom bracket who i think went out of business in 1969. My grandad was living in Birmingham around then, so was close to the BW factory. He also had strong German/Belgium links.

He wasn't short of money and judging by all the other stuff we've found I would have expected it to be cheap at the time.

I also found some cranks in the garage and a seat post.

Any ideas of what this is / any value / difficulty of actually getting up and running.

RandyBaton

merziac

RandyBaton

Very cool, I would give my left u know what for something like this but there was none to be had, my Dad facilitated my bikes from early on and passed down the mechanic gene so there's that.

I see no reason this cannot be brought back, plenty here and a great starting point. The post is a handlebar stem and a very good piece to have especially if it is an odd size.

The crank and BB are also gold if serviceable.

So while no expert, they are here and will be along to weigh in.

Great find, engage.

PS, please tell me it can fit you.

dddd

I can't help with ID-ing this frame, but hopefully you have the headset fittings needed to assemble the fork to the frame(?).

From there, you can scope out the dimensions, and with wheels fitted you can measure the angles, so as to determine if this frame might be a good rider for you.

Perhaps it turns out to be "rare, and collectible", which brings up the possibility of justifying restoring it to a high level of originality.

Pcampeau

Beautiful find! I love the look of the fluted Chatter Lea crankset. Is the non-drive side crank arm cracked near the top?

RandyBaton

Feeling this might be the thing that finally pushes me to buying calipers....

The forks and frames were found separated in the loft and the cranks and post were found in garage. I've not found anything else bike related but will check through the garage drawers.

merziac

The headset will be important as it is likely proprietary but maybe not life threatening.

Calipers are a good idea at any time, now is the time.

A bike co-op may be a big plus if you have one close as well as a shop that still embraces vintage bikes.

There may be members here close enough to help hands on as well, you only need to ask.

bikemig 

This bike is beautiful and it has to be a fairly high end bike back in the day.

Is there a hole in the fork crown for a caliper? It doesn't look like there is in which case getting calipers to work on this bike won't be straightforward.

Perhaps this was a track bike? But the fitting on the fork crown is for I think a light which suggests it was also used on the road.

repechage

British no doubt.
As to the make... I would ask Norris Lockley
he has a flickr account.
Was on the old CR list.

Curious that one side of the fork crown has a hole the other side apparently not.
The bracket on the RH fork leg... this bike was set up for riding on the road due to the lamp bracket but maybe also set up for a drum brake?

merziac

Looks like pic #1 in post #2 shows a screw on the backside of the crown, might just be for a fender and may be a very specific clue for the right expert.

bikemig 

Well heck if you're the right expert, by all means let us know what that screw is for . . .

Kuromori

That sure looks like a Ernest Russ "super resilient" extra strong fork, which would probably date it around the 30's. I believe these forks were sold to other frame builders, so a Russ fork doesn't mean a Russ frame.

merziac

Not a chance, no idea, only thing I know is how cool this is.

Can't really imagine a brake fitted with that screw but you never know, certainly agree with the fork fittings being for touring or road at least.

Maybe it was a fixed gear path randonner.

Kuromori

Lack of a through hole in the crown indicates it probably would have been used with something like Resilion brakes.

It's hard to tell from the photos, but it looks like it could be a headclip style headset, which looks pretty different from normal threaded headset parts.

bikemig 

cool

"A Real Engineering Job" - The Resilion Story

smontanaro 

Norris is still active on the current CR list. I think he was still acquiring stuff up til a couple years ago. His collection must be ginormous.

merziac

Seems like there would be some if not significant witness marks from somewhere along the way.

bikemig 

Maybe this bike was never built up?

juvela

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This is the first shell I have seen with stepped chainstay sockets.

Had not known such a thing existed.

But then we are talking Britain of the interwar years...

Regarding the undrilled crown -

at this era there were both caliper and cantilever brakes which mounted to the bicycle by clamping to the fork blades and to the seat stays

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merziac

As always, fascinating insights, thank you.

Again, seems odd to me no evidence of any witness marks of such a fitment.

Even with no hands on experience, they would have had to been very securely fastened, would surely leave a mark that would require refinish to cover and could certainly be the case here.

RandyBaton

As far as my dad can remember this was never built up. He thinks there was something rare about it and my grandad was always waiting for parts.

Its very similar to this. https://www.63velo.com/wf-holdsworth...bum/4594541996

If that's the case I think I was a Claud butler and I've been reading reading the frame marks upside down OLI8OI would be 108170. I think that would me it was built in August of the first year of a decade and was number 170.
​​​​And the frame an forks being marked 7541 would date it to a CB from 1961
Holdsworth Frame Numbers | Retrobike

merziac

Well that would certainly make sense then, maybe your Grandfather was waiting for Resilion brakes that never came, they may be even harder to get your hands on now and while they would be cool as can be to have you may have to consider drilling the crown and bridge to fit brakes on this unless you fancy a fixed gear setup.

It may be worth a good amount as well so there's that too.

non-fixie 

Beautiful frame! The rounded lugs look like the ones F.W. Evans used. If you haven't already done so, I'd suggest contacting Hilary Stone. He seems quite knowledgeable in this area and might also be able to help you with getting the correct parts.

juvela

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1961 would place it right at the beginning of the Holdsworthy time

the date would be quite late for clamp-on brakes. some new cycles continued to be made with them well into the 1950's but 1961 sounds late

while a Claud Claud by contrast would show different ends and ends treatment

it certainly "looks" early for 1961

Chater Lea makes one think of a somewhat earlier epoch. but of course we do not know that the chainset was ever on the bicycle since grandad is reported to have been accumulating bits for an eventual build...

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one subject not much thus far addressed is the question of intended application

to our eyes of a later generation mixed signals are perceived

whilst there are no eyelets on either fork ends or dropouts we have a lamp boss, pump pegs and attachment points on blades and stays

note that chainstays are of the conical/rapier pattern with no dimpling

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Doug Fattic 

Randy, I have a couple of questions. 1st what is the spacing between the rear dropouts? I'm wondering if this frame was designed for a 3 speed hub (or some kind of hub with internal gears) or even a coaster brake. The stem would suggest upright and not drop handlebars. Does the fork have D shaped blades? Somewhere on the steerer near the fork crown might be stamped the kind of tubing it was made out of.

My observation is that the builder used a bottom bracket shell for 7/8" chain stays and then brazed in a sleeve so 3/4" rapid taper stays (like a curly stay Hetchins) could be used. The screw on the fork crown was probably for attaching a fender. I've always like double box lining. I don't know enough about pre WWII bicycle components to know if drum brakes were used on 3 speed type of bicycles. If I understand right the UK was slow to adapt to derailleur bikes because among other things the popularity of Sturmey Archer hubs.