Loft find bike pre 1960's - What is it?
02-16-20, 08:40 AM
#26
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As far as my dad can remember this was never built up. He thinks there was something rare about it and my grandad was always waiting for parts.
Its very similar to this. https://www.63velo.com/wf-holdsworth...bum/4594541996
If that's the case I think I was a Claud butler and I've been reading reading the frame marks upside down OLI8OI would be 108170. I think that would me it was built in August of the first year of a decade and was number 170.
And the frame an forks being marked 7541 would date it to a CB from 1961
Holdsworth Frame Numbers | Retrobike
Its very similar to this. https://www.63velo.com/wf-holdsworth...bum/4594541996
If that's the case I think I was a Claud butler and I've been reading reading the frame marks upside down OLI8OI would be 108170. I think that would me it was built in August of the first year of a decade and was number 170.
And the frame an forks being marked 7541 would date it to a CB from 1961
Holdsworth Frame Numbers | Retrobike
it’s beautiful whatever it is.
02-16-20, 09:13 AM
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Comparing the Bayliss-Wiley bottom bracket with two examples on Velobase, it appears to be of the later variety (two-notch lock ring). Take it with a grain of salt, but that component, if original, suggests late 40s or later. Unfortunately, I reported that a comment on that entry was spam and Velobase automatically removed it (at least from view). Grrr... Any idea how to go 'round the normal channels to see about getting that listing reinstated without the spammy comment?
02-16-20, 10:28 AM
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Comparing the Bayliss-Wiley bottom bracket with two examples on Velobase, it appears to be of the later variety (two-notch lock ring). Take it with a grain of salt, but that component, if original, suggests late 40s or later. Unfortunately, I reported that a comment on that entry was spam and Velobase automatically removed it (at least from view). Grrr... Any idea how to go 'round the normal channels to see about getting that listing reinstated without the spammy comment?
Forum member Peter Breuggeman is an excellent resource for all questions regardin VB admin matters.
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02-16-20, 12:24 PM
#29
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What an awesome project! It is indeed a beautiful frame and worth building up, along with the detective work required to do so! It looks like the bottom race for the headset is mounted on the fork, so perhaps the rest of the headset is rattling around in a drawer or cabinet somewhere.....
02-16-20, 01:03 PM
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02-16-20, 02:23 PM
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I have no clue, but posting to become subscribed to hear the final resolution. That appears to be a very well built frame, and the crank appears to be made to accept cottered crank arms, suggesting British influence?
02-16-20, 02:56 PM
#33
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one subject not much thus far addressed is the question of intended application
to our eyes of a later generation mixed signals are perceived
whilst there are no eyelets on either fork ends or dropouts we have a lamp boss, pump pegs and attachment points on blades and stays
note that chainstays are of the conical/rapier pattern with no dimpling
to our eyes of a later generation mixed signals are perceived
whilst there are no eyelets on either fork ends or dropouts we have a lamp boss, pump pegs and attachment points on blades and stays
note that chainstays are of the conical/rapier pattern with no dimpling
Last edited by Kuromori; 02-16-20 at 03:12 PM.
02-16-20, 04:10 PM
#34
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The numbers on the BB are indeed cast but the frame and forks are stamped with 7541 which would date it to a CB from 1961 or a holdsworth from 1947, but is as far as i can tell identical in basic frame as this one from 1935 https://www.63velo.com/wf-holdsworth-1935-album/4594541996. Also I note from holdsworth catalogues that they offered chrome platting of some parts off catalogue and also offered custom bike builds.
I've done a bit more research whilst typing this and I think its this (although the chrome option doesn't include the head tube):
https://www.nkilgariff.com/HoldsCats...frames1934.htm
The ageing is difficult as my dad remembers it being around by 1963 at the earliest but form WW2 to around 1955 my granddad was station abroad (army major). So I'd say he either brought it pre-war and left it lying around for 10-15 years or brought it some time between 1955 and 1963.
Do we have any holdsworth specialist on here?
Last edited by RandyBaton; 02-16-20 at 04:17 PM.
02-16-20, 04:20 PM
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The numbers on the BB are indeed cast but the frame and forks are stamped with 7541 which would date it to a CB from 1961 or a holdsworth from 1947, but is as far as i can tell identical in basic frame as this one from 1935 https://www.63velo.com/wf-holdsworth-1935-album/4594541996. Also I note from holdsworth catalogues that they offered chrome platting of some parts off catalogue and also offered custom bike builds.
I've done a bit more research whilst typing this and I think its this (although the chrome option doesn't include the head tube):
https://www.nkilgariff.com/HoldsCats...frames1934.htm
The ageing is difficult as my dad remembers it being around by 1963 at the earliest but form WW2 to around 1955 my granddad was station abroad (army major). So I'd say he either brought it pre-war and left it lying around for 10-15 years or brought it some time between 1955 and 1963.
Do we have any holdsworth specialist on here?
I've done a bit more research whilst typing this and I think its this (although the chrome option doesn't include the head tube):
https://www.nkilgariff.com/HoldsCats...frames1934.htm
The ageing is difficult as my dad remembers it being around by 1963 at the earliest but form WW2 to around 1955 my granddad was station abroad (army major). So I'd say he either brought it pre-war and left it lying around for 10-15 years or brought it some time between 1955 and 1963.
Do we have any holdsworth specialist on here?
02-16-20, 04:45 PM
#36
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The problem is a lot of the features you're looking at on the frame are more correlated with era than any particular builder. The fender tabs, lack of brake holes, what looks to me like 3/4" chainstays sleeved into a 7/8" bottom bracket, integrated headset cups, what looks like a headclip bracket, and Russ forks makes it look characteristically like a 30's or maybe 40's British lightweight. I'm sure you could find later examples of these features from later eras, but they are rarer as new trends start setting in.
The seatstay caps near the seat lug look different, and this is one of the places that frame builders often used trademark styles to identify themselves.
The seatstay caps near the seat lug look different, and this is one of the places that frame builders often used trademark styles to identify themselves.
02-18-20, 11:05 AM
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02-18-20, 01:09 PM
#38
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Seeing this as NOS is simply amazing. Resilion brakes is likely enough but would also work fine as a fixed wheel with front brake. English from this era no reason to suppose forward facing dropouts would not be used with fixed. And no reason to suppose end user would not be ready to drill a hole if needed.
Stepped chainstays were about comfort. And recognition that few of us are so strong as to really need 7/8" stays.
Unless there is a very very tight lineup to a catalog frame this could be a custom from many builders. Even at big shops like Holdsworth and Butler production was one at a time with very many bikes being fully custom. Hard to see this one leaving Butler with no decals but stranger things have happened.
Stepped chainstays were about comfort. And recognition that few of us are so strong as to really need 7/8" stays.
Unless there is a very very tight lineup to a catalog frame this could be a custom from many builders. Even at big shops like Holdsworth and Butler production was one at a time with very many bikes being fully custom. Hard to see this one leaving Butler with no decals but stranger things have happened.
