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Simplex Retrofriction shifters play

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Simplex Retrofriction shifters play

Old 01-31-20, 12:44 PM
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alexnagui
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Simplex Retrofriction shifters play

I have zero experience with using retrofriciton shifters but I've heard that they are (one of) the best downtube friction shifters ever made.
So I've got a set of them in braze-on version. I cleaned and re-lubed them and mounted on a Simplex clamp I had. It needed retapping, of course.

Well, what I've noticed once the shifters were mounted on the clamp is considerable lateral play of the levers. It seems that the bushing inside of each shifter is not seated fully on the housing with the stop (is that how it's called?) so there is a gap between the housing and the lever. The clamp has nothing to do with the play, it fits perfectly.

Is that just supposed to be like that? Is that due to wear? The shifters are used but visually don't have much wear. No missing parts either...
I did not remove the bushing with the spring prior to cleaning. I am wondering if the bushings were not installed properly to begin with which does not allow the lever to be seated porperly which creates this annoying play.

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Old 01-31-20, 01:54 PM
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I am recalling that there is some difference between the clamp-on and braze-on versions of the retrofriction levers.

Might be a case of the bolt head or bolt tip bottoming too soon, before the lever assembly has been clamped fully onto the clamp bosses.

Perhaps then the clamp bosses need to be shortened slightly, or the bolts shortened slightly, to increase the clamping effect and get rid of the free-play?

Is the bolt securing the inside bushing from rotating(?), i.e. does the friction hold as it should?
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Old 01-31-20, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by dddd
Perhaps then the clamp bosses need to be shortened slightly, or the bolts shortened slightly, to increase the clamping effect and get rid of the free-play?

Is the bolt securing the inside bushing from rotating(?), i.e. does the friction hold as it should?
Using shorter bolts doesn't make a difference, I've already tried that. I haven't tried the shifters on the bike they are meant for yet but the bolts seem tight enough.
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Old 01-31-20, 04:13 PM
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I think it's part of the design of all these one-way friction shifters. The screw creates friction on the inner bushing, but does not meaningfully compress it, it just sets the friction in the friction direction. The lever is merely trapped between the screw and the base so without the clutch, it could move completely freely, which is why is moves easily the other direction. For some reason I remember seeing what looked like factory shims in some of these kinds of shifters, but they don't seem to show up in parts diagrams. You can play with soda can shims if don't have a place to buy various shim washers from, or you can hope it's less noticeable under cable tension.
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Old 02-01-20, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Kuromori
I think it's part of the design of all these one-way friction shifters. The screw creates friction on the inner bushing, but does not meaningfully compress it, it just sets the friction in the friction direction. The lever is merely trapped between the screw and the base so without the clutch, it could move completely freely, which is why is moves easily the other direction. For some reason I remember seeing what looked like factory shims in some of these kinds of shifters, but they don't seem to show up in parts diagrams. You can play with soda can shims if don't have a place to buy various shim washers from, or you can hope it's less noticeable under cable tension.
Hm, very interesting about those shims. But they are not shown in the diagrams indeed.
I still have to check the shifters under tension and see how they feel.
As I mentioned before, I have no experience with Retrofriction shifters, and no extra set to compare with.
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Old 02-01-20, 03:20 AM
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I'm trying to remember, but I think there is a thin brass washer under the silver outside cap that acts as a shim to minimize lateral play. If that's missing.you might end up with the looseness you are describing.
The mounting bolt on those shifters look like replacements. The originals were slotted chrome screws.
one thing I do remember with my Retros was a replacement mounting bolt that is too long would bottom out and the levers would end up too loose on the pivots. I still remember cutting one of my replacement bolts because of this, to make them work right.
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Old 02-01-20, 03:28 AM
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From: Simplex Retrofriction levers



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Old 02-01-20, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Chombi1
I'm trying to remember, but I think there is a thin brass washer under the silver outside cap that acts as a shim to minimize lateral play. If that's missing.you might end up with the looseness you are describing.
The mounting bolt on those shifters look like replacements. The originals were slotted chrome screws.
one thing I do remember with my Retros was a replacement mounting bolt that is too long would bottom out and the levers would end up too loose on the pivots. I still remember cutting one of my replacement bolts because of this, to make them work right.
​​​​​​All the part are there, nothing is missing.
I did replace the bolts because the original ones are a bit too short in my opinion to use with the clamp. So I am using M5 20mm replacement bolts.
Changing back to the original slotted bolts doesn't make a difference.
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Old 02-01-20, 07:47 AM
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I have two bikes with those shifters..one has a little play, and the other doesn't. While the play doesn't affect performance...I have also wondered why. Just thought they had alot wear!
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Old 02-01-20, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by abellanti
I have two bikes with those shifters..one has a little play, and the other doesn't. While the play doesn't affect performance...I have also wondered why. Just thought they had alot wear!
Thanks for your reply! At least, now I know that it's a common problem. The play is a bit annoying but I think I could live with that.
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Old 02-01-20, 10:52 AM
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One thing to watch out for is the thread pitch for the mounting bolts are different between the Retros sold with a clamp and ones that were sold as direct bolt ons to brazed on shifter bosses. The pivot barrels on the clamped on sets are also larger diameter, but strangely, you can actually still remove the levers from a clamped on sets on to brazed on bosses and they will still work as the mounting bolts will adequately do the job to center and retain them on to brazed on pivot bosses. I actually have this going on with one of my bikes.
I currently have Retros on 5 of my 9 rolling bikes and have 2 spare sets in my stash and they do have a slight bit of differences between them in terms of feel and fit tolerance, but they all work great otherwise.
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