elcruxio

Yeah I too find it an advantage that I can without much effort modulate my brakes with one finger to mimic abs braking in the loose stuff. Powerful brakes have saved me from more than one wipeout in the snow when my front tire has locked up but I've been been able to instantly release the brake a bit to regain traction. If I had to have more than one finger on the lever or use significant force to actuate the brake I'd been slower to release and I'd probable have fallen.

I also cannot understand the idea that hydraulic disc brakes are somehow digital or on off. They are not but they do take a bit of practice to learn away from cantilever lever use. I've used hydro's from light road brakes with 160mm rotors to DH brakes with 203mm rotors and never have they ever been been anything other than incredibly precise. I've had a few bad apples but that was years ago and the entriest of entry level brakes used outside their specced environment.

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FiftySix

This all reminds me of motorcycle brake technology from the '70s, '80s, and '90s.

Early motorcycle disc brakes required four fingers or three strong fingers. Some of this was technological limitations of early disc brakes, with some arguing that the new discs were too powerful compared to the old drum brakes.

In a few years, those four finger hydraulic brakes became two finger brakes, and then even easier to use two finger brakes. Let alone learning a light touch on a tiny hydraulic rear brake pedal on '90s motorcrosser while wearing inflexible heavy leather racing boots.

I also remember cars without power steering and the aftermarket small diameter steering wheels that were available that were sold as "racing equipment only" because they would steer "too quickly" at speed. We've had cars that we can steer with one finger for quite some time now.

And I don't even have to mention how automotive brakes and clutches take much less effort than they did decades prior. Which makes me remember sitting in a freeway traffic jam for 3 hours in the mid '80s in a late '70s CJ5 Jeep with a 3 on the floor and a V8 up front. Creeping along at 1/2 a mile an hour for all that time did my clutch leg in for sure. Nowadays, that wouldn't be quite the same ordeal.

Pop N Wood

Does hydro fluid ever boil in bike brakes like it can in high performance cars? DOT fluid has wet and dry boiling points. Mineral fluid doesn't absorb water like most DOT fluids do.

Shimano makes brake pads with cooling fins so I assume bike brakes can get pretty hot. Probably need a serious downhill and someone riding the brakes.

Just wonder if there are any stories to tell or if standard practice is to flush fluids before big races.

Troul 

They get hot, but they cool down fast that you'd have to hammer on the brakes & immediately after stopping, touch them in order to feel the severe heat. Being small parts, you want to avoid that sorta intense heat. Small parts a susceptible to warping when cooled by a shock temperature change [water puddle]. Fins help regulate the heat from getting to the extremities of things.

GeneO 

Yes, I expect if you are on a long steep descent. Mineral oil will boil before dot 5 so would soften the brakes more quickly as they heat. Don't know about to failure though - I live in the Midwest with no big hills or mountains,. Maybe that's why Shimano has cooling fins on the pads and rotors and SRAM doesn't. Don't know about the effectiveness of those find tho

vespasianus

The companies that use DOT fluid make this claim - Hayes for example. They claim that the occasional bubble you get in your brake is from the mineral oil bubbling. Every year or so, I "burp" my Shimano brakes by attaching the funnel to the brake lever and flicking the lever while tilting the bike. You get the bubbles out and you are fine to go for a while. Takes all of 5 minutes.

I will say that some of the DOT brakes (Hayes, Hope) are tons more powerful than the Shimano's and also have much better modulation. Not sure if it is the brakes or fluid.

prj71

Maybe you should try a cable brake system on your car. Report back the results.

Again...Bottom line here...Pay attention...rim brakes are going away (unlesss you buy a department store bike), cable disc brakes will soon follow the path of rim brakes. As with any product offered to the consumer...You either lead, follow or fall behind.

rydabent

I fully believe that disc brakes are the way to go. However as a mechanical tech, I also believe that hydraulic brakes are a complicated over kill. Those that have them talk about feel and everything, but IMO they are still not needed.

As to feel the mechanical disc brakes on my trike feel fine. I do how ever admit that the cable runs on my trike are very short.

WhyFi

That's an exceptionally low bar. I love many of the current trends, but by the "not needed" standard, even I'd have to go back decades to find something that I strongly felt was "needed."

thehammerdog

same reason why all cars have AC , have automatic tranny, we buy yeti coolers, central AC is in most homes...
it is better.

LesterOfPuppets

Automatic transmission? Pfft.

thehammerdog

we all can't drive corvettes...
I get it..

caloso

I don't think I've ever not owned a manual.

GeneO 

I have both SRAM Force 1 (dot) and Shimano 8070 (Mineral oil) hydros and I think the power and modulation are comparable - I do not notice any significant difference. Both are excellent in my book. .

tomato coupe

You can't buy a new Corvette with a manual transmission.

Pop N Wood

Yep, old Henry Ford refused to put "juicers" on his cars for years. Hell, Edsel Ford had to fight him to put front brakes on Ford cars.

Now that I think about it old Henry Ford would fit in just fine on this board.

BTW I would bet money that cable actuated brakes aren't going away. Silly bet though, no way to collect

Oh, and mineral oil is just slightly less toxic to the environment than DOT fluid if you spring a leak in the woods. Plus it doesn't eat paint. I would prefer the mineral oil set ups for no other reason than these.

thenetters21

I jumped on the disc break craze and sold all our old mountain bikes / hybrid bikes / outgrown kids bikes and ordered four commuter bikes with disc brakes for my family. Delivery day...late August (at least we kept a few bikes to get us through until then...but I look dorky riding around on my road bike with my family...I keep telling myself it's temporary).

bmcer

Wow! This thread went much farther afield than I'd anticipated. Learned a lot in the process. Thanx. In any case, my choice has been made, and if Fedex ever gets their fecal material organized, I should have a brand new Canyon on my doorstep in a couple weeks. I know, I know. Pix or it didn't happen. Promise I'll post pictures as soon as it arrives.

Speedway2

I started driving in 1975. Learnt on a manual tranny.
Every vehicle I owned was manual until I bought a 2015 RAM/hemi Blackout pkg. If I could have ordered it with a stick I would have. I like 3 pedals in my vehicles .....

bmcer...looking forward to some pics!

FlashBazbo

You need a better tech. I've been riding hydraulic disk brakes for gravel, road and cyclocross for over five years. Tens of thousands of miles. Never had to bleed or adjust them after installation. If you mount them and bleed them properly the first time, you should never have to touch them again. Replacing pads is no more frequent than rim pads.

elcruxio

That's actually incorrect. Dot fluid is hydrophilic so water does migrate in to the system over time. Water in the system will worsen the properties of dot fluid so a bleed every two years or so is adviseable.

With mineral oil it's a bit different but water does migrate and the qualities of the mineral oil deteriorate over time (all oils deteriorate over time).

​​​​​New hoses every half a decade won't hurt. Apparently with motorcycles it's recommended to bleed every year and get new hoses every two years. Or was it two and four...

vespasianus

Yeah, I am going on close to 20 years with disc brakes - from the old Hayes systems, to Shimano, AVID and new Hayes systems and compared to bikes with V-brakes or older - the maintenance is minimal.

If a guy at a shop has problems working with disc brakes in todays world - I would steer far, far away from that shop.

boilermaker1

That's because modern automatic shifting transmissions provide better performance than manuals. Many super performance cars don't offer manuals.

LesterOfPuppets

Yes, but at least you still have the shift paddles mode so you can shift when you want, if you want. Driving my minivan by shifting like that kinda sucks

tomato coupe

I think it's interesting / amusing that eTap is basically set up like the paddle shifters in high performance cars.