ahill

Hey guy and gals. So Ive been shopping around for the past several weeks looking for a bike in my budget which is 500 and under that isn't heavily used. I've found 2 and would like yalls input. The first is a Specialized Allez 2018. Very little use, they say rode less that 5 times. Shimano Sora carbon fork all stock bike. The second bike ive found is a 2006 Trek Madone 5.2 Project 1. Its very clean and said less than 50 miles on it. It has Dura Ace crank, gears, pedals and brakes. Bontranger xxx lite carbon wheels. The specialized they want 500 and the Trek 450. I am using it for fun, exercise and if the bug bites, something that will hold me over for awhile. both bikes ride well, but i dont know enough about road bikes to know anything. They are both 58s, I am 6' and 240. I went by a few bike shops looking and they they feel i am a 58 but had no used ones in that size..... any suggestions would appreciate it. Thanks



Anthony

luismboc

A bike from 2006...with less than 50 miles on it...sounds fishy. Regardless, bike from 2006 might have some significant wear that is hard to judge. Unless you know the rider/owner, it feels like a high risk proposition.

Maelochs

Reallyhard to help here because no one can examine either bike, and no one can see you on either bike.

For your height, a 58 is the "standard" frame size, and probably with stem, spacer, seatpost, and bar adjustments you could make either bike fit really well.

The older bike has what look like better components .... but 2018 Sora is probably as good or better than 2006 D/A. The wheels are most likely a lot better on the old bike, but the rest? depends on whether it is actually new/barley ridden or well-cleaned.

But same with the Allez---it could be that the owner abused it somehow and then cleaned it up nice and is selling it cheap (assuming it is an Al-frame Allez Sport (https://www.specialized.com/us/en/al...sport/p/115476) it was probably about $950 new. Please Note--Safety Recall-----https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/p...y-fears-363358 ---make sure you got a new fork or yu can get one, or else walk away.)

Iride01 

Dura Ace then isn't Dura Ace today. The Tiagra and 105 of today is probably the Dura Ace design of days gone by made with less expensive longer wearing material.

If the 2006 bike can be had for less than a couple hundred, it might be a deal. Don't buy the 2018 for a "like new" price. You can probably get a brand new 2019 or even 2020 cheaper for almost the same and be first owner.

eduskator

Like new 2018. The more recent, the bettah. Check the tires, you will know if the guy used it a few times or a lot. It's possible that a 2018 has been ridden less than 5 times. People are often buying stuff on a whim.

As for the size, make sure you're within the manufacturer's recommended height. Most of them have sizing chart - it can vary from a brand to another.

Finally, if you don't like it, you will sell the 2018 quicker than the 2006.

ChrisAlbertson

Bikes can last forever. I ride a mid-1970s vintage bike but every part has been replaced/upgraded at least once. Older bikes are great for a person who is able to work on bikes and replace parts but maybe not so great for a person who can't. The Modone 5.2 is kind of over the top for a new rider. It is a full-on race bike. It was sold with Ultriga parts and if it has duraace then some (expensive) upgrades were done. Eith erhtis bike was ridden a lot then cleaned up for sale or it was owned but a guy with more money then time and riding abilty. There are MANY people like that wh buy high-end bikes but never really ride then then years later figure out they never will ride it and sell it. If you are the guy who can take aart hubs and bottom brackets and true wheel then you found a good deal. Offer him 80% of his asking price.

I see more than a few middle age guys all decked out in race clothing with $6,000 bike sitting on the bench by the bike path looking at their phones. Eventually, they sell the bike. Anyone would be very lucky to buy it. So don't discount all older bikes. But don't buy one unless you know how to look at them

One easy way to see if a bike has the claimed 50 miles or more like 5000 miles is to check the chain for "stretch". But maybe the chain has been replaced so check the brand of the chain. Is it original?

I would say there are FAR more bikes that are just stored and taken out every 3 or 4 weeks, ridden 5 or 7 miles then taken home the there are bikes riden 200 miles a week. The vast majority re not used much. Even if rriden 200 miles a week, every part might have been replaced as needed. On my bike, I just replaced the chain, rear cogs and derailleur, and bottom bracket bearings for the third time. It does not matter if the bike is 44 years old if these things were done as required.

That said, you need to learn bike maintenance if you own an older bike.

mercator

This is not true.

Eric F 

Agreed! Dura Ace from 2006 would have been the 10-speed 7800 group, which was excellent and very durable. If those parts are low-mileage, you can expect to get MANY more years of hard use out of them.

My suggestion for a new rider with these two choices...

Pick the bike that fits your body best. A top-quality frame and/or components won't make up for a mediocre fit.

ChrisAlbertson

About the Dura Ace parts. yes. Even looking at the only Dura Ace part on my bike which is a headset that was put on in the early 1980s just as Shimano was beginning to make a name for itself. Compare this to new low-end Shimano and the 40 year old part still is better. The Old Dura Ace has a very light weight body made from forged aluminum and just the part of the bearing races where the balls make contact is hardened tool steel. This was in the days of thread steerer tube so the headset came with a tool to adjust the splined nut and locknut. It is 1/3rd the weight of the new low-end Shimano part. Even in the 80s they were making very light parts that used combinations of materials. and just like in the 80s todays cheap parts are just chromed stamped steel.

So the 2006 DuaAce part might be a combination of titanium, aluminum and carbon with ball bearings in the jockey wheels while the new Sora is just aluminum with brass sleave bearings. What does happen over time is that the older DuraAce parts are remade with cheaper materials into Tiagra or Sora parts so a brand new Sora might be functionally like the old DuraAce but just made cheaper and heavier. All of the Shimano named groups lines are well made. For example look at their cables. For $11 you get the generic galvanized steel brake cable, for double that price you get polimercoated stainless cable and for even more you get a special higher end coating on the stainless and also inside the housing. All three systems will reliably operate the brakes. The $11 gavanized version can last 10+ years if you pull it out and grease the cables every couple years but a person who owns the $30 Dura Ace cable will likely replace the entire cable every year. The products are targeted to different users. The 10 year old coated stainless cables really are better then the new galvanized cables. Same with just about all the parts.

One more observation with bikes: It seems that if you want the next step up in quality the price doubles. A ridable road bike costs about $600. The next step up is around $1200 and to get a mid range bike you are into about $2400 and the prices keep doubling until you are at about $11K.

Joe G

If you plan on using the bike as you said for fun & exercise, then get a brand name bike so you can sell it if your plans change. Both the bikes you're looking at are good brands. The 2006 Trek Madone is a carbon bike and you'll have to look that over very carefully. I wouldn't be too concerned about the components, but more so the frame. Eye the frame up closely as and make sure it qas never crashed and then repaired, If it was you'll be taking a risk of it falling apart while you're riding it.

The Allez is Aluminum, but if it costs the same as almost new, then spend the extra bucks for new and get a warranty. The Allez is a great bike and if you find older ones you will not be disappointed. No matter what level rider you are.

ahill

Hey guys. thanks everyone for your replies. I read them all and took them into consideration. The trek sold before i could get up to see it and the allez owners were flaky and I just gave up. The end of my road bike search finished today after getting sick of looking at peoples 2009 allez they still want 500 bucks for and decided to venture new. I picked up a Cinelle Veltrix caliper version for 950 brand new. Carbon, 105 set up and i loved the burnt orange color. below is the specs and pic but not the disc version ...what do y'all think?




SKU:BI4009-L-ORG
SIZES:XS (50) - S (52) - M (54) - L (56.5) - XL (58.5)
FRAME:Columbus Carbon Monocoque
HEADSET:IS 42 / 28.6 | IS 52/40
SEAT POST:Ø31.6mm
SEAT CLAMP:Ø34,9mm
BOTTOM BRACKET:BSA STANDARD MOVEMENT BOX / BB 68mm
FT. DERAILLEUR:Derailleur Braze-on
CABLE ROUTING:Internal Routing - Di2 / EPS Compatible
COLOR:Blue Burns Orange
TIRE CLEARANCE:up to 700x28c
FORK:Columbus 1-1 / 8 "- 1-1 / 2" Monocoque
WEIGHT:Frame 1200g / Fork 460g (uncut)
BRAKES STANDARD:Standard road caliper
HUB SPACING:Front QR 100mm Rear QR 130mm
FRAME KIT/FRAME:Frame KIT & Fork / Di2 / EPS cable inserts
FEATURES:Low sigma transitions / Dynamic Race
STEM:CINELLI 6061 Stem Size 90 (XS) 100 (S / M / L) 110 (XL)
HANDLEBAR:CINELLI 6061 Handlebar / Ø 31,8 / Drop 131mm - Reach 55mm Size 40 (XS / S) 42 (M / L / XL)
CRANKSET:SHIMANO / 11 Speed ​​/ 50-34T Size 170 (XS) 172.5 (S / M / L) 175 (XL)
SEATPOST:CINELLI 6061 Seat Post / Ø31.6 / L350
TAPE:CINELLI Cork
BOTTOM BRACKET:SHIMANO / BSA 68mm
FT. DERAILLEUR:SHIMANO 105/11 Speed ​​/ 46-53T
BRAKES:SHIMANO 105
CASSETTES:SHIMANO 105 / 11-28T pack
SHIFTERS:SHIMANO 105
WHEELS:VISION / 622-17
TIRES:MICHELIN Dynamic sport / 700x25c
HEAD SET:Integrated COLUMBUS Compass 1-1 / 8 "1-1 / 2"
CHAIN:KMC
SADDLE:CINELLI SSM Monza start / 145mm

Iride01 

https://www.cinelli-usa.com/veltrix-...-burns-orange/ 950? dollars US? You stole it!

I'm sure you'll enjoy it till you get the new bike fever again. <grin>

I like bright colored bikes too. I intended to paint my Raleigh in a similar color, but I got the New bike fever too and bought a Specialized Tarmac with Di2 instead.

If we pass each other somewhere, then assume the race is on!

chainwhip

[QUOTE=Iride01;21388166] https://www.cinelli-usa.com/veltrix-...-burns-orange/ 950? dollars US? You stole it![/QUOTES]



*Somebody* stole it.
Online prices are north of $2k.

Ride it in good health.
Sláinte.

sfrider 

I'd take DA 7800 in a heartbeat - it's a very good groupset. I'd also disbelieve claims of 50 miles and would want to inspect it for wear, fractures on the RD hanger, cassette wear, cable stick, etc. Still a supposedly mint 7800 bike for $500... a steal even if it needs a trip to the shop, a new chain, cabling, brake pads, bar tape, saddle, tires, etc. Does it have 7800 brakes? Those are excellent also.

I'm not surprised the Trek was gone before you could blink! Congrats on the Cinelli!

grizzly59

Where did you find your Veltrix?

Kimmo 

A few years ago I scored a pretty mint 7800 bike for AU$600, had about a year's wear on it. Nasty scar on the left crank arm I had to polish out, but cleaned and fully overhauled, I got $560 for the group, including pedals. 😀

That crankset is porn. Got another one on a mostly 7700 bike.

ChrisAlbertson

How did you find this bike for under $1,000? They typically sell for almost three times that price. In fact any brand new carbon fiber bike with 105 group set would set for about $2,600 give or take a few hundred. You got a deal. Where/How?

ahill

I picked it up on Amazon, I was just browsing out of curiosity to see what they may have and came across it. They do not carry many legitimate bike brands but found this one. amazon insider tip, you can find really good deals there 95% of the items are just boxes that get nicked up during normal handling and amazon discounts them and sells them... On a side note, how much assembly/tune/adjusting does a bike require?? I am a BMW technician, so i know i can build it properly but sometimes the fine tuning of it if required, may need more of a professional to this field?

chainwhip

Derailleur alignment and limit screws. FD & RD.

Brake cable pull and brake block clearance on true rims.

Couple of YouTube's and an hour should do it.
(A bike workstand would be a big help).

Fine tune your seat height: Greg Lemond's 0.883 of your cycling inseam (crotch to floor), then align crank with seat tube and set top of seat to match that measurement from center of pedal spindle.

ChrisAlbertson

I assume you've had a car engine apart with the camshaft and heads off. Any bike even at the high end is way-simple compared to that. Adjustments are made by eye and "feel" not with measuring tools. But with these new bikes there are some thing to know and special tools for replacing things like bearing that are press-fit into the carbon frame. And you'd want to know like to use some special "carbon assembly grease" for the seat post. Even if a special tool is needed they are cheap compared to what you'd need for a BMW. Like $15 for a US made crank arm puller.

Bikes are easy to work on if you have a stand you never have to bend or reach and all the parts are easy to access

Before you do something like adjust a derailer go to https://www.parktool.com and click "fix it" or if you just want to learn about bike machanic go there now. You might not know how to take a chain apart and reassemble it but when you se the guy at Parktools do it once you see that it is easy. Same with how in the world does this casset come off, then you see and it is really easy. It is all like that, not much skill needed but you have to see the "trick" once

You will likely want to buy a work stand as that is useful even for simple things like cleaning the bike and chain. In reality, you can go 500+ miles before you need to touch the bike but I like to make sure the bike's drivetrain always literally passes the white glove test. This means weekly cleaning and a wipe after every ride.

If you are into mechanics you will just want to stay ahead or do things like a swap that factory galvanized steel cables for teflon coats stainless just because you can. This means a full and complete brake and derailer adjustment -- watch the how-to at Park Tools.

Every threaded part gets eiher grease, anti-sieze or loc-tight on the threads and then torqed with a torque wrench (or your calibrated wrist)

Also, beware on bikes left-hand threads are common. You can break stuff by not knowing.

chainwhip

Carbon has torque specs. Don't exceed them.
You may need carbon grip paste for seat post clamp/handle bar clamp/stem to fork steerer clamp.

Take note of Chris' warning about reverse threaded parts...pedal spindle threads and bottom bracket threads
are areas to slow down and confirm.

Check the frame over for any damage...scrapes, cracks, punctures.

BE SURE TO POST DRIVE SIDE PICS WHEN THE BIKE ARRIVES!

BillyD

Be sure to keep making posts so you can exceed 10 posts and be ready to post pictures. If need be, go to the Introduction forum and say hello to some new people to build up posts.

Iride01 

The Shimano Tech Doc's will be your friend. The DM's (dealers manuals) give specific information about adjusting them. Pay attention to all the side bar info and pictograms. They have my 105 5800 group I installed on my 91 Paramount running smooth and quiet. Even when in the big-big combo. Since installing it three or so years ago, I think I maybe have to tweak it a couple times a year to keep it shifting in the exceptionally great performance it can give.

https://si.shimano.com/#/

eduskator

This looks like a pretty solid deal..

Any pictures?

chainwhip

Pics??