mountaindave 

There are a remarkable number of 86 BCD cranks in recent posts - I’m loving it!

Lascauxcaveman 

The proportions on that thing just look so perfect. Bravo to both you and @gugie.

Man, that is a long pull for those straddle cables. And I'm sure you told us all about it already, but that is some crazy-ass stuff going on in the RD department there. Looks good too, though. Are those tires as heavy as they look?

gugie 

Rudi's picture tale

Now for the rest of the story...

amedias

Singular Osprey in 700c



And same again in 650B

valve_timing

Can anyone reccomend a inexpensive set of 650b wheels i wanna convert my lemond zurich but im having trouble finding anything

gorillagirl

Absolute cheapest way is to build your own, with some hubs you already own. Use Sheldon’s instructions. If you have the time to spare it’s way cheaper than any other option.

valve_timing

well yeah i have a pair of 700 c mavic open cd wheels i use currently with shimano 600/tricolor hubs

mountaindave 

Not sure if it’s just an optical illusion, but it looks like your fender lines improved with the 650b conversion. It looks like it was made for 650b!

amedias

Lines did improve a bit, but due to the change of brakes, the Shimanos I was running with 700c forced a little pinch point at the brake.
the Tektros have more room so doesn’t happen with them, would be equally as good with centrepull too so when I build up the other Osprey frame I have I think I’ll use CPs with 700c wheels

amedias

Another recent conversion, but not from 700c...

It's a Westland, the frame was originally built in 1958 by a small framebuilder/shop that was based on the south west coast (England) just down the road from where I live.
A very little known builder, especially beyond the local area but produced some frames of exceptional quality from the late 1940s to the early 1960s, this one has some lovely custom, filed and reduced lugs and near perfect brazing.

This particular one is built from double butted 531 with 531 round blade 'track' fork legs and the entire thing is delightfully springy, sprightly and very VERY comfortable, no doubt helped by the forks and the nice long chainstays, geometry is quite 'French' and noticeably different to a lot of English club bikes of the era.

It was originally built for 590 and/or 597 wheels as many English club bikes were, but decent rims and tyres are hard to come by now and the conversion to 650B is very easy as the extra brake drop required is very small so it now rolls along on some modern Pacenti Brevet rims and Compass/Rene Herse tyres.

nlerner

^ That fork rake—wow!

AJI125 

I saw these for sale when someone asked a similar question on the 650b Google Group. Only a front, and the rear I found on their site was 135, since your Zurich is almost certainly 130, you might need to build or find a separate rear wheel. Certainly cheap. I have zac19 wheels on my wifes 650b Zurich, I had them originally on my Buenos Aires conversion but built some better wheels last winter.

https://stradalli.com/whl-ft-275-584...0mm-14gbk.html

Edit: found a front/135rear on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/WHEEL-MASTER-...g-goods&sr=1-6
https://www.amazon.com/Weinmann-Whee...-goods&sr=1-17

Edit: forgot about these: https://www.cyclestoussaint.com/coll...speed-clincher

pcb 

Oh, my goodness. Hearts all around---that right there is my ideal bicycle. It was also built, if I might say, in a very auspicious year.

I'm always amazed at how many really lovely frames were being built in small shops all over creation, over so many decades. And not to sound like the cranky old born-in-1958 curmudgeon that I am, but I don't think there will be as many opportunities 60yrs from now to marvel at all the lovely tig-welded or molded/bonded/whatevered handbuilts of today. There may be some design nostalgia, like thinking a '58 Jaguar automobile looks really cool today, but you won't really be seeing the choices and aesthetics of an individual builder's mind/heart/eyes/hands. The tig'd tube shapes were cool, the welder laid down a nice bead, thin and smooth, restrained, or a bodacious rope of nickels, but beyond that?

I don't mean to minimize the skill necessary to nail the design/geometry, choose the tubing, and weld cleanly. All things way beyond my own paltry skill set. But lugs-n-steel provide an opportunity to show the builder's hand, in a way I don't see in more "modern" construction.

But maybe I just don't know where to look.....

noglider 

@pcb, you may be right, but time will tell. There might be a few niches that exist now that will be beloved in the future. It's a bit like music. It would be silly to say that music today is all trash. We have to see what stands the test of time. Most of it is crap because most new music is crap in all eras. But look at the pieces that we still love. It was in a class called crap back then (whenever "then" was). I don't know if the same will be true of bikes, but I suspect it will.

pcb 

Baby got new wheels. I think I posted this over on the "Whatcha Wrenching?" thread, but since 650b is so integral to what the bike is today, thought I'd update here as well.

I started de-tubifying a bunch of old wheelsets, and got myself a neo-retro set of "new" wheels built with vintage Campy 36h high-flange road hubs, liberated from a trashed tubie wheelset, and brandy-new Pacenti Brevel 650b clincher rims. Swapped the road axles to track, used a bb lockring to snug down the fixed cog on the freewheel threads, and Bob's yer muva's bruva. The wider Brevets get me a little more width, now about 33mm at 75psi-ish riding pressure.

Updated photo shows the right-side dummy brake lever, a huge help on the road. Since this photo I scored a 172.5 Campy crank to replace these 170mm arms, and a set of BMX MKS chain tensioners that fit the fat/thick rear ends/dropouts better. Not much of a visual difference, but I like longer crankarms, and when you can't stop spinning, the extra 2.5mm is a help. And with a shallow bb drop only 55mm or so, the extra 2.5mm crankarm length shouldn't give me any cornering problems.

Finally got a proper ride on it with the new wheels, and it works really well. Fairly well-mannered on the road for a frame purpose-built for track racing, the 650b wheels/tires scrub off the harsh edge of skinny 700c tires without much muting the frame's aggressive nature. This is definitely not a 650b conversion that has me floating over all manner of road irregularities, and though trail-able, it sure wouldn't be my first choice for that. But I managed a respectable 28mi ride feeling worked pretty good, but not beat-up.

pcb 

I hear ya, Tom. But I'm not really talking about trash-vs-treasure, I'm thinking about how much of the builder I can see in the finished product, while also recognizing it's kinduva snobbish/aesthete take. When I see a really nicely done lugged/brazed seat cluster, I see not only that the builder was careful to do it well and cleanly, but I see they used everything they had to make the lines flow, to make it beautiful. When I see a really nice tig'd seat cluster, I see the work of a skilled, careful welder, but I don't get the same sense of flowing lines and, well, a certain kind of artistry, of sculpting.

Like I said, maybe I just don't know where to look, haven't seen enough custom handbuilt tig'd frames, so I just haven't seen the same thing, even though it's there. I try to never be dismissive about this stuff, or think that I've seen/know it all.

I can't really come up with a music analogy that doesn't short-change anybody. You can hear a musician is talented when they're playing the chart, but you hear more of who they are when they improvise? I guess I feel like tig-welding doesn't give the builder as much chance to improvise, but I'd be happy to be wrong about that.

'83 DiNucci/Road-Sport:




'82 Columbine/Road-Sport:



'05 Waterford RS-33/Road-Sport



'16 Wraith Paycheck (650b)/'cross-Gravel



'04 Kelly Bonestock/Road

noglider 

Cool, @pcb. I have a Raleigh Pro Track, and you gave me the idea to consider this. It currently has Continental Sprinter tires which ride like rocks. I don't ride it often.

pcb 

Oh yeah, that's right----I did notice you posted a photo of your Raleigh Pro Track. It was red-ish/burgundy maybe?

650b will definitely smooth it out, and make it more practical/enjoyable. I'd assume your bb is also high, so the lower wheel height shouldn't be an issue. You'll need a longer front brake, likely. If you're lucky enough to have dimpled chainstays, you could potentially go wider than 32mm. If there are no dimples, you may need to pick a ring/cog combo that gets the wheel further back in the ends.

I don't know if you're a chain-tug fan, but I use 'em on both sides to make sure the wheel won't slip. There's not a ton o' room back there between the chain stays for slippage.

There's plenty of cheap qr 650b wheelsets out in the world to experiment with if you have nothing in-house. The trick is finding a rear with a freewheel hub you can respace to 120mm, or whatever your rear is spaced to, and mount a single cog. Can't do too much with a 130mm-spaced cassette hub. I guess technically you might be able to make it work, but a lot more hassle and a lot less fun than a freewheel hub.

noglider 

Here it is. It's a deep red but not burgundy. I raced it in summer 2014 at Kissena, at the age of 53.

Where do I find cheap 650b wheels? A generous BFer sent me a pair, and I haven't seen others.

I'm good at attaching wheels and haven't needed a chain tug.

pcb 

Very sweet! I recognize the fork rake. What year is it? Very cool that you got to race it at Kissena, especially considering your advanced age [/joke: I'm older]. I've never had the pleasure of riding on a track.

I have no knowledge of these wheels, other than that they're cheap. Probably more sources, google "Sta-Tru 650b wheel freewheel." And, really, how could you go wrong with a wheel named Sta-Tru?
https://www.amazon.com/Wheel-584x21m.../dp/B01B9YSGTW
https://www.bikeparts.com/BPC429076/...eewheel-silver

Expect to have to repack and readjust the bearings.

You'll have two qr wheels, need to replace the axles if you want to use track nuts, and you'll have to respace the rear to 120mm. Looks like they're 135mm stock. Likely need to cut the rear axle a little shorter, too, unless your frame rear has been spread wider.

Don't forget you'll need tires, too, and afaik the problem is there isn't much in the way of inexpensive narrow-ish 650b tires. You're basically talking either Grand Bois Cypres or Confreires de 650b Hutchinsons, which you'll only like find being sold by Euro vendors. You can find cheaper tires in wider sizes, but you won't likely be able to fit anything more than 32-34mm in the back.

Lesser don't forget is you'll need a lower-drop front caliper as well.

I pretty much finished my Raleigh today, installed some wider rim tape on the rear Brevet (did the front last week), got the new MKS chain tugs sorted, double-checked the new 172.5mm crank installation. She's good to go.

Be lucky!

noglider 

@pcb, @nlerner sold it to me and said it's a 1971 model. You really should come to Kissena some day and try the track. It's fun to watch the races, and some weekend days, people just roll around for fun.

My goals that summer were to enter into at least ten races and to come in last every time. I achieved both, and by entering ten races, I was automatically upgraded from Cat 5 to Cat 4. The experience reminded me why I don't like racing: too much pain. At least I didn't drop out of a race except for the type of race where the last guy in each lap must exit; I think that's called an elimination race.

Thanks for the links to the wheels. I'm rethinking the idea. I probably won't 650b-ify the Raleigh, but maybe I'll do it to another bike. I could even buy those wheels and reuse the parts economically.

abshipp 

Getting to be fender season here

itsmeNick

Such a good looking bike!

I just finished up a Pinarello 650b conversion. Will post once I get my post requirements in.

abshipp 

Hmm, I was hoping for the maroon tape to be a little more brown so that it matched the saddle a bit more.

Bar ends and new tape for the 716:

due ruote 

I don't know how you feel about shellac, but amber would pull the tape much closer to the saddle color. Pretty bike.