armstrong101

You're right about new frameset prices. I just don't think "collectors" are buying brand new anything.

The one high-roller I know bought a mint Bianchi Centenario for $4000 USD from a European bicycle search company/service/store (I'm not sure, this discussion was a few years ago. I know he wanted one, and it took several months for them to send one to him after they found one). I think most collectors would choose that bike over the Eroica.

I have no doubt the people buying the Eroica are deep-pocketed, but I don't think they are "regular" collectors or the type of person who frequents this forum. They are probably not very educated in these matters as the other option for them would be to get a mint Centenario if they were educated.

So yes, I think the Eroica (and all modern brand new steel framesets) are expensive.

Kilroy1988 

I've linked a number of production lugged steel frames made in Italy at the end of this post. Each frame set costs at least half as much as the complete Bianchi L'Eroica. Most of them probably get equipped with modern drive trains using brifters and even carbon fiber components, but some of them are built up to harken back to the days of old, and are even built using vintage group sets (I know because I look at a lot of them on various forums and websites). Any of these frames, professionally assembled with new or NOS parts, would cost as much or more than the Bianchi L'Eroica.

I presume that the L'Eroica is targeting the same sort of buyer that would choose one of these frame sets, and desires a melding of modern and vintage functionality.

Superleggera | Wilier Triestina S.p.a

https://www.cinelli.it/site/index.php...lliflypage.tpl

BICICLETTE-CLASSIC | Colnago

::: De Rosa ::: Nuovo Classico

Steel frame tecno TOMMASINI bikes

Kilroy1988 

That's a lot of bias right there. Maybe they already have a mint Centenario? Maybe they have a brand new Ferrari, too? $4,000 is not a lot of money to many people, and to many others it is not a lot to spend on something desirable. To assume people are uneducated because they can afford or wish to own a brand-new vintage style bicycle is rather demeaning and a poor ad hominem argument.

armstrong101

Spending $4000 on an Eroica is an educated move when you can get a lightly used 1980s Colnago with full SR for $1500?

Nevermind. Nothing I wrote was offensive but you're making it out that way. See ya.

Kilroy1988 

You might not think it's offensive to suggest that someone is uneducated because they decide to buy something, but it is. You just wouldn't buy it because it's not what interests you. Someone who wants something brand new and limited edition and built by hand in Italy by men who still need to earn a living, might scoff at you for buying something second-hand that doesn't support the current economy of craftsmen.

Take it as you will, but you're presenting a poor argument for why this bicycle is expensive if you're unwilling to establish why it is priced the way it is - i.e. by way of comparison with a plethora of other brand-new lugged steel bicycles on today's market.

armstrong101

I think I know where we're disagreeing.

I'm talking about someone paying $4000 for the Eroica, and they plan to ride it in the Eroica. i.e. it will become a used bike.

Maybe you're talking about collectors buying the bike to keep. I'm not arguing that. I thought we were talking about people buying a bike they plan to use in Eroica. If that's the case, I think it makes more sense for them to get a 1980s bike for $1500.

armstrong101

You're a dork. Your assumption is that they already have a mint Centenario. My assumption is that they don't. Tell me which assumption is more likely to be correct?

Kilroy1988 

It seems we're coming at this from completely opposite directions, so there's no point in further argument on my part. What you're saying seems perfectly reasonable from the point of view of "getting your money's worth" as a C&V enthusiast, but it is not how I would determine whether or not this bicycle is expensive. It's not a used bike - it's brand new and currently employed craftsmen are depending on it selling at a competitive price point.

Have a good evening, sir.

John E

How about indexed barcons?

armstrong101

Good day.

martl

i just wonder when Mercedes will market a 300SL sort-of-lookalike based on the current 200E (with modern tires, aircon, satnav, airbags and flappy pedal shifting) for 5 Million which comes with a guaranteed Mille Miglia starting spot

For me, events like the Eroica are to experience what it felt like to race back then. Dealing with the imperfections of the gear is part of the package. If i wanted to tour the Tuscany with as little hassle as possible, i could just use an E-assisted MTB. But that's just me.

rccardr 

My understanding from people who own them is that they really, really, REALLY like them- the looks, the ride, the equipment, the idea.


Some of them are vintage enthusiasts who knew that they could buy a very nice vintage bike for less money. Some of them own carbon bikes, wanted to buy something NEW to participate in a vintage event or to ride with their vintage-y friends, and considered $4K a whole lot less than they'd spend on another carbon bike.


So, there's that.

Wildwood 

Not hating on the new/retro Bianchi, in fact, I reread all the posts and no hater posts about the bike. In my post I called it 'pretty'. Although for that price they should be using Columbus Spirit, not Zona (at least on 2016 model).


What I think is silly is L'Eroica admitting new 10speed cogsets into their 'preciously authentic' vintage race/ride. Bianchi's marketing dept definitely got a few rules changed. Italiano simpatico.


edit: i vote e-bikes for L'Eroica if the frame is steel, color is celeste, and the brakes hoods are non-aero.
re-edit: Shame on Bianchi - $20 tubulars on a $3500 bike = Vittoria Rallys

NWGuy99

The use case for brifters is different than downtube. Most people report two to three times more shifts with brifters than DTs. That statistic is for both entry and accomplished bikelers. That and the profusion of gears have probably brought on the riding style of spinning.

Brifters may have started out as marketing fluff, but they have gone on and changed the bike world.

Not to say that vintage does not have its place..... I love them, real bicycling....

crank_addict

Do believe some are (or were) clincher equipped. Tires? Well perhaps if its an occasional rider or mostly a wall hanger, no biggie. I certainly don't recall seeing many new production bikes, tubular rim equipped with a $100+ tire.

At least it comes with pedals. Should realize almost all high-end modern bikes do not come with pedals.

Wildwood 

If you are not racing, please explain why more shifts = better. Spinning is possible with friction 5/6.

NWGuy99

Yep, people (on this website) are doing the "more shifts" for a reason. Why? Idiots? probably not the majority.
Probably the efficiency of keeping closer to an optimum pedal speed.
Agree it applies more to racers, but that statement applies to most of the high tech bike world. Carbon bikes for normal Joes? Logic would dictate reduce the weight of the engine, or even get a better workout via a heavier bike, not lighter....

Maybe my understanding of spinning is the mistake I thought that spinning was keeping higher rate of pedal at near the same power.

himespau 

I just want to go as fast as possible so that I can go farther for the same effort. My problem with running back when I raced cross country was that the scenery never changed fast enough and I got bored. When you live somewhere flat with cornfields every where, going around one block was about 4 miles (so a 25 minute training loop) and I didn't see anything different the whole time. When I go cycling I want the view to change to keep my mind occupied by interesting scenery. Going faster allows that to happen more. Plus, I'm not as flexible as I used to be.

Ride-Fly

**edited because I'm a dope, and didn't read it with full comprehension**

That is (still) a FANTASTIC idea!!!!

But for the second option, Bianchi should offer a Campy equipped Athena alloy 11 spd. I'd really love to see Campy pull out of their bag of tricks, NOS Campy Chorus 10 alloy gruppos on this frame. . All my lugged steel bikes run Campy 10 alloy. Not a fan of DT shifters. Rode them in the 80s- don't need to ride them now.

crank_addict

On that note, why not buy it and pull or swap parts, older or new to whatever makes you happy? And if concerned of 'collector' valuation, stash away the original parts.

Trakhak

@Marti - Nice bikes, but the Girardengo, with its bent frame and fork, makes another argument for buying a brand new Bianchi Eroica versus a used bike with an undisclosed history.

Oldairhead 

You sure assume of lot of things that aren't true. Just because you don't buy anything new does not mean that others don't.

"They aren't regular collectors or the type of person who frequents this forum." Wrong again! I frequent this forum, though I often just lurk and learn, I also contribute when I choose to. What is a "regular collector" anyway. We all have our own preferences in what we collect. We do not all lust after the same things. It is a bigger tent than you seem to think it is.

Not very educated (about bikes)? That is a pretty bold thing to say. You do not know me and you do not know anything about my expertise in cycling. Nothing about my age, my mechanic history, my racing experience, nothing! So let me see if you think I am a "regular collector", worthy or educated in any way based on the bikes I currently own and ride. I won't list the MTB's since they probably don't count anyway. I ride most of these, some more frequently than others. Every bike after 2000 I purchased new.

1958 Motobecane Randonneur, original and unrestored
1959 Girardengo, rebuilt and period correct, Constante's second tier model
1962 Legnano Roma Olympiade, mostly correct, with some updates
1962 Legnano Gran Premio, period correct, veteran of 2 L'Eroica long routes
1968 Lygie Record Professional, updated to 7 speed
1972 Schwinn Sports Tourer, complete and original, garage sale buy
1973 Schwinn Paramount, original and perfect!!!
1974 Hetchins Italia, NOS frame and fork, currently on my workstand
1974 Legnano Gran Premio, updated gearing, a veteran of 1 L'Eroica long route
1980 Holdsworth Mistral, updated to 8 speed on the downtube, fun bike!
1983 Lino Messori, museum quality resto, period correct, an educated person would know of this builder
1988 Battaglin, Team Giro model, near perfect, can you pronounce it?
1991 Burley Tandem, a wall hanger now
1991 Sancineto, update to Campy 9 speed, my favorite century bike!
1998 De Bernardi, Campy Record 10 speed
2001 Pegoretti Palo Santo, my favorite double century bike! 20,000 miles on this bike alone.
2006 Co-Motion Nor-wester, my long distance bike, I rode PBP on this bike.
2007 Co-Motion Nor-wester, not a rider, belonged to a friend who passed.
2008 Colnago Master X-light, the prettiest bike I own!!!
2013 Rawland Nordavinden, my gravel grinder, Chris King and Campy gruppo
2014 Surly Pacer, a back-up brevet bike
2016 Bianchi Eroica, updated with more Campy stuff, veteran of 1 L'Eroica long route.

I guess this last bike disqualifies me?

martl

For the 2850€ price difference, you could get it fixed and repainted. Five times. Bad pick, but i could have shown you ~5-6 other 500€-Eroica bikes from my basement, all straight as arrows and ready to conquer the hills of Montepulciano (some already did).


Even this cost only half a Bianchi:


Carried me nicely thru Tuscany in 2010.

But "a used bike with an undisclosed history" is a bad thing?! I thought this was the C&V section


Fun aside, i can relate to the desire of having a classic-made bike with nice details and "modern" gear. The Bianchi is not the only option, neither is it (imo) the best value for money.
i would pick a frame from a framemaker, one i know the first name of the fella doung the brazings and filing the lugs. So how much would a Pego Luigino or a lugged Zullo cost with a Potenza or a NOS Super Record?

drlogik 

There is a full monty Colnago Classic with chromed lugs and the works at my LBS that I am lusting over. It's a customer's bike that they are working on. It is all NOS period Campy components and makes the Bianchi look like a light blue plain librarian. ROFL!

armstrong101

You seem angry because someone on the internet is wrong.

Just curious. How many of the bikes you've listed there did you buy new at retail cost? How many were used?

BTW - you could've gotten a Centenario at the price you paid for your Eroica. In my opinion, that's just dumb.