OldManJones

I'm interested in opinions regarding the peak of steel racing bikes in terms of era, manufacturer, and tubing materials. When were the best steel racing bikes made, by who, how were they constructed, and please explain your reasoning. I have heard steel might be coming back to the grand tours but for this I'm interested in the bikes used while steel was still widely used in the grand tours.

AZORCH

Opinion overload in 3... 2... 1...

bikemig 

Easy, any bike I own is at the top of the heap for its generation; then there is all the rest . . . .

jetboy 

ill throw out the 1986 Look r753 though Hinault just called it "the grey one" - and also

"
Do you have a favourite bike from the days you were competing?
No, since the specs were the same, I was not better on one or the other…


In fact, you see bikes as tools, there is no particular attachment to these machines?
No, it was a working tool we could improve with new technology."



(from gitaneusa.com)

clubman 

No, not today.

merziac

KonAaron Snake 

Black bear.

Flog00

So many threads like this get ridiculed, I don't get it.
Ignore it, or contribute.
I've been on the receiving end after starting some threads.... it's not fun and not helpful to the forum community.


To the OP, I don't have any expertise in this area, but would love to read some opinions.

ramzilla

Schwinn Varsity!

jamesdak 

Well, I'll add this little bit of a tidbit....

While talking with Gita as I got this NOS frame from them in 2015...



they offered up that there was a prototype superlight steel frame internally reinforced with carbon fiber yet weldable (or was it brazeable?) The tech just came along too late in the game and CF had taken over from steel.

The above frame is Excell Podium, top of the line for the time and raced on a smaller level. I've got it built up now in a 19 1/2 lb bike without even trying.

nlerner

I wonder if anyone has compiled a list of major stage-race winners, the steel-framed bikes they rode, and the year. Those results would say more about the engine than the machine, but seeing the data over time would be interesting.

repechage

Highly doubtful steel will return to the Pro Tour Peloton. Especially if they go all disc brakes.

Steel had a long run, one of the interesting aspects is that for decades many builders were using the same basic materials available to all, performance was attributed to basic design and fit to the rider.
Toward the end of the Steel era there was some minor evolution regarding heat treatment, diameter and shape, all very incremental. No game changers. That written, I do like my Masi volumetricas, but they are just another flavor.

I think the racers today by and large have to make do with what is issued, they won't know a bespoke designed machine till after they retire.

merziac

Sorry man, not my intent, I have been there too.

Here goes, Jim Merz built custom frames in Portland Oregon for about 10 yrs. starting around 1972-3, self taught, very highly respected, widely known for his touring bikes but built them all, track, road racing, aero, tandem, mtn. Then went to work for Specialized and was instrumental in helping them become the force they are today. So while he may have built about 400 bikes on his own, his DNA reaches far and wide in many aspects of building to this day. Here are no.27 that was his and no.189 which is almost 100% original

OldManJones

wow, very interesting. Care to explain the without even trying part?

OldManJones

No doubt. I'm here because it's a generally very positive group of people who enjoy the same thing. I guess whoever it was got some sort of rush off it though. Must have been worthwhile.

Poguemahone

From the 1970s on, American custom builders (and semi-customs like Waterford and Serotta). A bit vague, perhaps, but as a group I'd put them on top.


In general, high degree of finish and craft.

jamesdak 

What I mean is I picked components for looks, price, function, vs weight savings. So silver Athena, steel chrome fork, alloy stem, bars, seatpost, etc. The saddle was picked for comfort and the tires are my standard Conti GP 4000s II in 700 x 25c. Chosen because I find them to offer a balance of comfort, puncture protection, and grip. Basically the only "concession" for weight was when I went to the Shamal wheels over the Velomine handbuilts I originally ran.

I bet if I had gone with a bunch of carbon fiber components, tubular rims and a carbon fork this bike would easily be in the 17 lb range if not lighter. And this is 20 year old steel frame.

As in the picture below with bottle cages, computer mount, sensors, etc., it's 19 lbs and 9 ozs.





I don't know what the specs were for the version of these that were raced but it'd be interesting to know.

Bandera

Best?
No such thing except in a context of competition use by an individual.

Machines designed in the '70's for the European classic professional road races on the pave' were not optimal for the short sharp weekend racing in city parks we did in the US at the same time and visa versa. Which is "best"? It depends.

My favored machine would have been a poor choice for a powerful sprinter who outweighed and out-watted me by considerable margins, his bike would have been heavier than I required. Which is "best"? It depends.

A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed.

-Bandera

ramzilla

Bottecchia

RobbieTunes

I appreciate the TdF and pro bikes, but the ones that the other 99% rode are what interest me.

I have one or two in mind. Okay, one.

Based on price, quality, availability, who used them and when, and longevity as a desired and obtainable bike.

Pretty easy to figure.

T-Mar

The best steel road racing frame that I ever owned or rode was 1974 Scapin SL. It's characteristics suited me to a T.

Kevindale

This is the kind of questions I asked (mostly silently) when I got back into road biking ("what's the best road bike for the money?") and then, as I got into the recent history of cycling and C&V bikes, I wondered what the best steel racing bikes were. I slowly realized there was no single answer, as some here have alluded to. For racing bikes, as Bandera said, the needs of different kinds of racing, and different rider types, makes it an impossible question. You can look at what bikes won races, but then you find out that many race bikes were built by a specialty builder and then painted/decaled to appear to be the sponsor's bike. Plus, was the bike ridden by the guy who finished 10th in the TdF really not as good as the bike of the guy who finished first?

Coming from an avid interest in cars, I don't think you can ask the same kind of "what's the best" questions. I think the closest you can get is to ask things like "who were the most highly regarded builders of stage race bikes in, say, the early 1980s?" For me, and even more interesting question is "who were the underrated builders from, say, the early 1980s whose bikes I can now buy at ridiculously cheap prices?"

WolfRyder

The question is too broad and hard to respond to, because of the large subject matter. You could probably get a better answer with a steel bike CV rankings thread, by mfg. region and era.

Kevindale

Curious if you still have it. If not, has your riding changed too much to find a replacement, or is that a grail for you? And do you have a photo (apologies if you've posted this before)?

clubman 

My apologies. Ridicule wasn't my intention but your questions are so vast in scope, they're overwhelming. How does one coherently talk about 'peaks' in all of the decades of butted steel bike production and tie it all together with ribbons and a bow? Well designed bikes aren't simply defined by weight, materials or other empirical data. Maybe framebuilders are the best people to address your questions and yes, there are some on the list.

I can give you my top ten list of fave steel bikes but it won't be very useful. I'm just that way.