dstaudacher

Anybody know (or even venture a guess) exactly what wheelset was used on the Vitus/Team Festina (Sean Kelly) bikes for the 1992 Milan-San Remo race? I know they were tubular rims. I'm also guessing non-anodized Mavic rims and maybe Dura Ace hubs? How many spokes: 28? 32? 36? Different number of spokes & spoke patterns between front & rear? Radial spokes? And were aero spokes yet in use by then? I know butted spokes had been widely used for years, but not sure about aero spokes.

ThermionicScott 

Why are you guessing non-anodized? It was 1992, after all.

dstaudacher

Thanks! Nice pic of Kelly on a Vitus 992, and those are clearly anodized Mavic "yellow label" Paris-Roubaix, SSC tubular rims. Definitely *not* a Mavic 631 "Starfish" Crank - and not Mavic brakes either. Any idea what those are? Dura Ace?
I was thinking non-anodized rims because of the negatives I've read about them. Basically that the anodizing process tends to actually weaken the rims and makes the brakes less effective. But that's only what I've read. I've never actually ridden them myself.

ThermionicScott 

Not sure about the brakes and crank, someone ought to be able to ID them though.

I've got a pair of 27-year-old hard-anodized Araya 20As on one bike. Maybe hard anodizing increased the chance of cracking, but it sure isn't a guarantee. From what I've gathered, hard anodizing does make for a more durable surface, but you have to be careful to avoid excessive spoke tensions.

Chombi1 

Please note that even silver rims usually have what is called "clear" anodizing... .
Only way to have "non-anoduzed" rims might be to get something quite older than what may have existed when Kelly rode the Vitus bikes.....
BTW, the pic of Kelly on his bike shows the two rim decals on the back wheel. The look like the two rim decals that Mavic had on their rims at the second half of the 80's. Which model rim they are cannot be determined from what we see though......
The crankset looks maybe like a 1st gen Chorus?......with its flat, straight spider arms and the signature "pucker" shape around the crank bolt.....

fietsbob

That's hard CD anodizing in the picture , colors, otherwise, are a dye treatment added after the base anodizing is done..

dstaudacher

I now have the rims and hubs. Now, on to the spokes! Anyone know if Kelly/Team Festina would have used "bladed" (aero?) or butted spokes in 1992? And would they have been DT Swiss or something else?

dstaudacher

Just picked up a couple more components, and the Mavic Paris-Roubaix SSC rims should be here tomorrow.
Now I'm looking at the tires.
I know Giuanin and El Chaba (in the other thread) both mention Clément and I see some likely candidates:
Campionissimo Seta Extra Servizio Corse
VeloBase.com - Component: Clement Campionissimo Seta Extra Servizio Course
Criterium Seta Servizio Corse
VeloBase.com - Component: Clement Criterium Seta Servizio Course
But look closely at the label on the front tire in the picture posted by Thermionic Scott of Kelly on a Vitus for Team Festina in 1992:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pDSXCJscdK.../kelly1992.jpg
I can't find a single example of a Clément tubular with that color pattern (long green stripe with red in the middle and a couple of yellow stripes ahead of that - the stripes are of course probably words).
What that looks like to me is either Vittoria Corsa CX (words "Vittoria CORSA CX in green with a red square in the middle, followed by "SQUADRE PROF" in yellow):
VeloBase.com - Component: Vittoria Corsa CX Squadre Prof
Or Vittoria Corsa Seta CX:
VeloBase.com - Component: Vittoria Corsa Seta CX
Do you think that's correct? I don't know what else it could be.

ThermionicScott 

I'd be surprised if the Setas (silk) weren't the nicer and more desirable of the two.

Is this bike going to be a rider or a wall hanger? I probably wouldn't seek out 26-year-old tires if the former.

dstaudacher

I'll probably do a little of both. I plan to show it at Cycles De Oro's next (and last!) Classic Rendevous Weekend (*) this May with "period correct" Vittoria Corsa CX tires on Mavic Paris-Roubaix SSC rims, but when I ride it I'll probably leave those home and take it out with a set of newer tubulars on some spare rims.
Also, I've examined very, very carefully that photo you posted and am convinced that's a Vittoria Corsa CX on the front. It looks to me like two words after the red square, and Corsa Seta CX would be three. From what I've gathered, Kelly seems to have been not so much concerned with weight savings as with durability and I think silks are a bit more fragile?
And would you by chance have any *more* pictures of any of Kelly's 1992 Vitus bikes (with or without Kelly)? Please?? So far, your closeup has been my *best* source of information! Where did you find that photo, BTW? And where was it? Paris-Roubaix? Tour of Flanders?
(*) Classic Rendezvous Weekend 2018 schedule - "Grand Finale"! After 20 years, this is the last one Dale plans on doing. Not to be missed!

fietsbob

Sean is back in Southern Ireland, you as a fan, could drop by.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Kelly_(cyclist)


https://www.seankellycycling.com/

ThermionicScott 

Hey @dstaudacher, I just pilfered the image from a Google search. Retracing my steps, it looks like it was from this blog: CYCLING ART BLOG: Stage 5: Like Sean Kelly

Caretaker

Reading his autobiography 'Hunger' which starts with the story of his 1992 Milan-San Remo win and then for subsequent chapters tells everything from the very start.
He crashed twice during the Tirreno Adriatico the week before and smashed both his bikes and there wasn't time to get a replacement so had to ride with a bike that was half an inch too big with the saddle lowered. He broke in a new pair of Vittoria CX tubulars on the final stage of the T-A and had the mechanic glue them on with extra glue for the descents of the Cipressa and Poggio. Unusually for him He also wore a helmet because he had signed a lucrative sponsorship deal with the manufacturers Brancale and would get a bonus for winning a classic wearing it. He said it wasn't very attractive and reminded him of his mother's mixing bowl.

dstaudacher

Thanks man! I've been hearing about the "Hunger" biography for some time now, so I guess it's about time I got a copy.
https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Boo...bi=22764655250 - Done!
Looking forward to perusing it! ;-)

dstaudacher

I think I have everything now to do this build except the cassette. Assuming the front chainwheels were 53/39 (correct for the time) what would the cassette have? 23 or 25 on for the largest gear and maybe 12 or 13 for the smallest? Remember, this bike had to get over the Passo del Turchino (532m) the Cipressa (239m) and, near the end after more than 285km, the Poggio di Sanremo(160m):
https://static2.milanosanremo.it/wp-c...t-1024x563.jpg

Leinster

Those were the days of big gears, and when you look at the footage of the day Argentin and most others are in the big ring going over the Poggio. I think corn-cobs were the order of the day, so I'd be surprised if Kelly was in anything but a 12-23.
To be honest, you'd nearly expect them to have a 42 or 44 inner ring on the front.

Lazyass

He has some pictures on his facebook thingy. Maybe you could send him a message.

https://www.facebook.com/Sean-Kelly-167262153316471/

ThermionicScott 

+1. It's a tribute bike to a hardman, so a 53/42 crank and 12-23 cassette should be in the ballpark.

dstaudacher

Thanks for the confirmation. Here's the 7410 crankset I got for it: https://ebay.com/itm/362215239270
It originally had B53-39 rings, but I've replaced those with this A-53 outer ring (marked 53-42 on the back):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/263539895934
... and this A-42 inner ring: https://www.ebay.com/itm/263459213069
The chain rings are dated "RE" (May 1993) and the cranks "UC" (March 1996)
Shimano date codes
... so I realize these were made after Kelly's 1992 MSR win, but I'm certain that's an FC-7410 in the pictures and these components are in excellent condition, so it's compromise I decided I could live with.
But what is giving me fits now is the crank bolts! In my reference photos, they clearly have black dust covers and are probably self extracting, but I can't find a source *anywhere* on the 'net for a pair exactly like that. There are some that come close:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/372202755156 - FSA (these have writing all over them, but Kelly's doesn't)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/350313725941 - "Octalink" ISIS
https://www.ebay.com/itm/362169151477 - No Name
https://www.ebay.com/itm/290940375056 - Lots of these, but I think they're Chinese crap
Does anyone know what crankbolts would have been used on Kelly's 1992 Vitus??

BTW, here are some other things I picked up for the build:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/362235487852 - BB-7410 bottom bracket
https://www.ebay.com/itm/273027105138 - FH-7403 rear and HB-7400 front 32h hubs
https://www.ebay.com/itm/263462799118 - Mavic SSC Paris-Roubaix 32h rims. These are being built up with Sapim spokes and should be ready this week.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/183067379484 - Vittoria Corsa CX "Squadre Prof" Tubulars
https://www.ebay.com/itm/332535153436 - 7402 downtube shifters
https://www.ebay.com/itm/183060316605 - 3ttt Evol stem. The plastic clamp cover will be replaced with a NOS one.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/222695833474 - Cinelli Criterium 65-42 handlebars
(the Cinelli bars with the 3ttt stem is *rock solid* btw - you can really lean into it with confidence - best I've ever seen)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/282827438823 - RD-7402 rear derailleur
https://www.ebay.com/itm/183023188617 - FD-7403 front derailleur
https://www.ebay.com/itm/182908468924 - BR-7403 brake set
https://www.ebay.com/itm/162941077222 - BL-7402 brake levers (just got these today)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202256870425 - Plus some fresh hoods for the levers

I think this is going to be a really great replica when I get it all put together! ;-)

dstaudacher

Found these with a little help from Reed Kennedy on the Classic Rendezvous site:
https://www.retro-gression.com/produc...rank-arm-bolts
After installation, when seen side-by-side with the crank on Kelly's time-trial bike, they are nearly identical, if not an exact match.

I'm almost certain these Specialtes TA "auto extractors" are the ones.

dstaudacher

Images didn't come up side-by-side as expected. Here's what the Specialtes TA "auto extractors" look like on my Vitus: