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Ideas for managing dockless scooters car-free

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Ideas for managing dockless scooters car-free

Old 02-05-19, 06:37 AM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
in other words, you have no more intention of listening to others telling you how to be more successful by using your education to make more income than successful people have if reducing their income to live like someone on minimum wage?
Of course I listen very carefully and try to understand other POV's. That doesn't mean I'm going to agree with them, though, necessarily.

You would rather scrape by and not travel without being able to trespass and camp for free on someone else’s property than to make a few more dollars and have the ability to stay in a camp ground or hotel while on vacation.
True, I enjoy the idea of a free world where people can sit and rest and sleep wherever they go without bothering others, the environment, or getting harassed by others. It is only trespassing if you are bothering others. If I have to go bribe people everywhere I go for them not to get bothered and harass me to leave, I might as well just not travel. Even if a hotel or campground is set up in a way that makes it not seem like bribing the people there not to harass you, I still know in the back of my mind that that is the underlying dynamic of it, so that casts a little shadow on it for me and causes me to only want to travel when I can't avoid it.

“dockless scooters cause no harm”, flies in the face of the home owner that has to toss one off of their lawn every other week. The zealot doesn’t care and says we should learn to live with the intrusion till the companies figure it out. The common person sees the zealot as a fibber nd files the, “we should” in the trash of ideas because someone says you should it means they think they know more than the person they are “instructing”.
If you think people should park share bikes/scooters somewhere they won't bother anyone, that is you 'should' perspective. We all have 'should' perspectives, even if we feel we shouldn't use the actual word, "should," to express them.

I cannot begin to explain how many supposed LCF warriors I have talked to who have a carbon footprint much larger than mine. It is there where the what you do comes into focus. Once it becomes known that the zealotry is so narrow focused that the goal is obscured that zealot can be classified as down stream in the green race and not worth listening to. The People running a marathon hardly ever listen to those that have never tried one.
Congratulations on achieving a relatively small carbon footprint. Carbon re-absorption is a different thing, though. You can generate zero CO2 but all the pavement and buildings and absent trees+ecology are inhibiting the re-absorption of CO2 into the deep carbon cycle that feeds new fossil fuels into the distant future.


Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Great.. but again: my point is that I don't read anything about what you actially do - just what others should do.
1) I don't want to brag;
2) I don't want to incur nitpicking and ridicule/criticism by people who just look for opportunities to push others into defense whenever they say things they do.

If someone says what people in general should do, or what should happen generally for certain purposes, then you can assess whether they are right or not. It's like if I tell you adjusting your gears will cause them to shift more smoothly, it doesn't matter if I practice what I preach or not. I might never adjust my gears and my bike sounds like an abacus all the time, but the fact remains true that adjusting the gears on my bike or yours can make it shift more smoothly AND people should adjust their gears for that reason.

I have to tell you, for all the supposed good you think you are doing on this discussion forum I find it very frustrating trying to have a conversation. You slip out of every direct question with more intellectual rhetoric. It feels like you want to have an authoritative voice without talking about how you do the real work.
And it is clear to me when I read something like this that you are more interested in negativity and ridicule of others than you are in discussing positive/constructive paths forward.

Originally Posted by Machka View Post
"You should do this." ends dialogue. People walk away.
Maybe because they are headstrong/pig-headed/stubborn. Some people can listen to what others think and not get triggered into rejecting them and "walking away." I understand that some people have been beaten into submission in their lives so they are sensitive to others pushing them toward submission. I myself don't like pushy people and their pushing. But when I say what should happen or what people should do, I'm not pushing because I ultimately respect their individual liberty. I may consider them unreasonable and pig-headed for rejecting what I consider to be sound advice, but what can I do about it? Punish them? How?
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Old 02-05-19, 09:45 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
And it is clear to me when I read something like this that you are more interested in negativity and ridicule of others than you are in discussing positive/constructive paths forward.
Sigh... That's me I guess.

Too bad you can't stop for one moment and consider what others are saying to you. I'll check out now as there seems no hope of constructive talk going forward.
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Old 02-05-19, 10:22 AM
  #78  
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[left]
Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Of course I listen very carefully and try to understand other POV's. That doesn't mean I'm going to agree with them, though, necessarily.


True, I enjoy the idea of a free world where people can sit and rest and sleep wherever they go without bothering others, the environment, or getting harassed by others. It is only trespassing if you are bothering others. If I have to go bribe people everywhere I go for them not to get bothered and harass me to leave, I might as well just not travel. Even if a hotel or campground is set up in a way that makes it not seem like bribing the people there not to harass you, I still know in the back of my mind that that is the underlying dynamic of it, so that casts a little shadow on it for me and causes me to only want to travel when I can't avoid it.


If you think people should park share bikes/scooters somewhere they won't bother anyone, that is you 'should' perspective. We all have 'should' perspectives, even if we feel we shouldn't use the actual word, "should," to express them.


Congratulations on achieving a relatively small carbon footprint. Carbon re-absorption is a different thing, though. You can generate zero CO2 but all the pavement and buildings and absent trees+ecology are inhibiting the re-absorption of CO2 into the deep carbon cycle that feeds new fossil fuels into the distant future.



1) I don't want to brag;
2) I don't want to incur nitpicking and ridicule/criticism by people who just look for opportunities to push others into defense whenever they say things they do.

If someone says what people in general should do, or what should happen generally for certain purposes, then you can assess whether they are right or not. It's like if I tell you adjusting your gears will cause them to shift more smoothly, it doesn't matter if I practice what I preach or not. I might never adjust my gears and my bike sounds like an abacus all the time, but the fact remains true that adjusting the gears on my bike or yours can make it shift more smoothly AND people should adjust their gears for that reason.


And it is clear to me when I read something like this that you are more interested in negativity and ridicule of others than you are in discussing positive/constructive paths forward.


Maybe because they are headstrong/pig-headed/stubborn. Some people can listen to what others think and not get triggered into rejecting them and "walking away." I understand that some people have been beaten into submission in their lives so they are sensitive to others pushing them toward submission. I myself don't like pushy people and their pushing. But when I say what should happen or what people should do, I'm not pushing because I ultimately respect their individual liberty. I may consider them unreasonable and pig-headed for rejecting what I consider to be sound advice, but what can I do about it? Punish them? How?


I wonder if you realize how the very points posted by others are confirmed by you responses? It is as if the word recalcitrant is being defined in a few paragraphs.
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Old 02-06-19, 05:34 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Sigh... That's me I guess.

Too bad you can't stop for one moment and consider what others are saying to you. I'll check out now as there seems no hope of constructive talk going forward.
Good luck overcoming your negative spirits.
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Old 02-07-19, 12:32 AM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Good luck overcoming your negative spirits.
Happy Feet is one of the least negative people here.

Probably has something to do with all the cycling he does.


It's good to get to know people before you go all ad hominem on them. Look up his travel/touring posts.

Last edited by Machka; 02-07-19 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 02-07-19, 06:19 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
Happy Feet is one of the least negative people here.

Probably has something to do with all the cycling he does.


It's good to get to know people before you go all ad hominem on them. Look up his travel/touring posts.
I was just responding to what he said in post #77 .

What you're doing here is also negative, i.e. getting defensive for another poster for no reason other than because I wished him well dealing with his own self-acknowledged negativity.
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Old 02-07-19, 07:38 AM
  #82  
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This thread is going downhill. Let’s either get it back on topic or it’s closed.
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Old 02-08-19, 09:22 AM
  #83  
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I suggest everyone go for a nice long bike ride
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Originally Posted by making View Post
Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.
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Old 02-11-19, 06:44 PM
  #84  
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Managing the lawsuits will be an additional challenge:

Many experts consider motorized scooters dangerous, and operating them on the street is against the law in Florida.
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Old 03-28-19, 10:05 PM
  #85  
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I have not given much thought to electric scooters until this morning when it was the topic of a local morning radio talk show.

On 3/8 I had called in about cycling commuters (link)..
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
...Just this morning (3/28) his topic was the introduction of electric scooters onto the streets of Boston, This time I did get a chance to make my three points, valid IMO with respect to scooters and bicycles. First, both are entitled to be on the road.

Secondly they reduce congestion if extensively used, since so many in-town trips are individual motorists traveling short distances. Of course, Jeff kept illustrating his arguments with depictions of long distance commutes, and trips with the family.

The preceding caller made the point that the availability of scooters, as well as the Blue Bikes draws pedestrians and subway users out into the streets. I agreed because that increased mobility, convenience and relative speed can be similar, and even more appealing than driving.

Thirdly, I got to make my point about safety. Earlier in the program he ribbed of inadvertently "bumping” scooters, hoping the operator wore a helmet and knee and elbow pads, but agreed with me that such accidents certainly are more serious.

I didn’t get to make my conclusion that IMO, the crux of the proposal, since these two-wheeled vehicles have a right to be on the road, and could be a popular transportation mode in the city, is how they and the cars can co-exist..

Jeff was actually gracious in his comments, even inviting me to call in the summer, when the scooters would be prevalent.Indeed, he claimed that the cyclists would likely be the most inconvenienced, and harmed by the scooters.

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 03-29-19 at 04:56 AM.
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Old 03-29-19, 11:36 AM
  #86  
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If Scooters had 26" tires and tanks, I'd think about it.
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Old 03-29-19, 08:52 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
If Scooters had 26" tires and tanks, I'd think about it.
In more and more cities it doesn't matter what size tires they have.
https://www.ksat.com/news/surroundin...scooters-bikes
https://www.kens5.com/article/news/f...3-ad068ff4127d
Must be a conspiracy. LOL
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Old 03-31-19, 08:43 PM
  #88  
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More info
https://news.crunchbase.com/news/bird-squeezes-the-brakes-cuts-staff-to-control-costs/

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Old 04-02-19, 11:37 AM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
In more and more cities it doesn't matter what size tires they have.
https://www.ksat.com/news/surroundin...scooters-bikes
https://www.kens5.com/article/news/f...3-ad068ff4127d
Must be a conspiracy. LOL
It's an open conspiracy, which you and I have discussed many times.

Lyft's share price has been going down since it went public, I've read, and what else explains that besides an investor movement to destroy stocks that interfere with the one-motor-vehicle-per-person economic model?

The car culture is simply a culture of creating and selling debt to fund business. It has caused congestion, environmental land waste, and sprawl; not to mention health hazards, time waste, accidents/injuries, etc. etc. but there are economic interests that are so bent on controlling the maximum amount of debt-paper possible that they will fight against any economic model that doesn't provide them with more contracts for more money and people than the automotive economy has provided them with.

Sorry, but liberation from mandatory driving isn't the only challenge; it's also liberation from car payments, insurance payments, sprawl, and the economic costs of pavement built into all our economic expenses. It should be possible to have a functional multi-modal transportation culture that results in less pavement and less economic burden both. It's not too much to want or expect.
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Old 04-02-19, 11:48 AM
  #90  
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My old town manages to get along without them around, at all ..
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Old 04-02-19, 09:50 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post

Lyft's share price has been going down since it went public, I've read, and what else explains that besides an investor movement to destroy stocks that interfere with the one-motor-vehicle-per-person economic model?
The more likely explanation is that investors realized the stock was initially overvalued.
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Old 04-04-19, 04:09 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
The more likely explanation is that investors realized the stock was initially overvalued.
The question is why it was viewed as overvalued and why investors expect it to go down.
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Old 04-04-19, 06:44 PM
  #93  
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They don't appear to be built on business plans that would provide long term profitability.
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Old 04-04-19, 11:54 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
They don't appear to be built on business plans that would provide long term profitability.
it would seem that both companies are rushing to that build a high net worth through investment capital. Both Bird and Lime are laying off some employees to reposition themselves for a second run at investment capital. If successful they will get more in a buyout by Lyft or Urber.

between lawsuits and restrictions someone like Uber my get be the only ones than can wait till all the legal issues are worked out.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wra...%3fversion=amp


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.was...ss-negligence/

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Old 04-05-19, 09:31 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post


it would seem that both companies are rushing to that build a high net worth through investment capital. Both Bird and Lime are laying off some employees to reposition themselves for a second run at investment capital. If successful they will get more in a buyout by Lyft or Urber.

between lawsuits and restrictions someone like Uber my get be the only ones than can wait till all the legal issues are worked out.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wra...%3fversion=amp


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.was...ss-negligence/


Basically all these costs amount to attacks by people who want to push these companies to provide them with money at rates they have come to expect within an economy that has traditionally be underwritten by giving everyone a 5-year loan to pay for a car. An economy where significant numbers of people are not locked into such contract-sales for a vehicle is simply not going to generate the same amount of paper-trading, so all these people who want to milk that level of money out of these car-free living businesses are just going to put them out of business, which will have the effect of removing alternatives to automotive purchases, which is the same thing as forcing everyone to (pay to) drive as an economic stimulus project.

In short, it is a non-governmental fiscal stimulus project to kill car-free alternatives by demanding automotive-economy levels of profit from them. It would be like telling bike commuters that you're going to fine and tax them until they generate as much revenue for you as if they bought a car from you. The bottom line is that riding a bike or sharing a car should never cost as much as owning and driving your own car, and that should be something that is achievable in business without a bunch of investors getting involved to drive your stock value down because they want you to pay for a car so they can make money in quantities that satisfy them.
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Old 04-05-19, 09:45 AM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Basically all these costs amount to attacks by people who want to push these companies to provide them with money at rates they have come to expect within an economy that has traditionally be underwritten by giving everyone a 5-year loan to pay for a car. An economy where significant numbers of people are not locked into such contract-sales for a vehicle is simply not going to generate the same amount of paper-trading, so all these people who want to milk that level of money out of these car-free living businesses are just going to put them out of business, which will have the effect of removing alternatives to automotive purchases, which is the same thing as forcing everyone to (pay to) drive as an economic stimulus project.

In short, it is a non-governmental fiscal stimulus project to kill car-free alternatives by demanding automotive-economy levels of profit from them. It would be like telling bike commuters that you're going to fine and tax them until they generate as much revenue for you as if they bought a car from you. The bottom line is that riding a bike or sharing a car should never cost as much as owning and driving your own car, and that should be something that is achievable in business without a bunch of investors getting involved to drive your stock value down because they want you to pay for a car so they can make money in quantities that satisfy them.
people that buy a bike or a scooter can and do still buy and ride them at a lower cost than cars. That is not a problem for bikes or scooters. People that start a business no matter what it is must follow the rules established by the people they are trying to do business with. It doesn’t matter if it is selling hot dogs or renting lawn care equipment. Try starts by a company that rents lawn mowers and tell people they can leave them where ever they finish with then and see how well that works. You have to follow the rules and get insurance and maintain the equipment.

No one has to single scooter or bicycle rental services out they have done so themselves with their business model. That is how the real world works.

Last edited by Mobile 155; 04-05-19 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 04-05-19, 07:33 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post


people that buy a bike or a scooter can and do still buy and ride them at a lower cost than cars. That is not a problem for bikes or scooters. People that start a business no matter what it is must follow the rules established by the people they are trying to do business with. It doesn’t matter if it is selling hot dogs or renting lawn care equipment. Try starts by a company that rents lawn mowers and tell people they can leave them where ever they finish with then and see how well that works. You have to follow the rules and get insurance and maintain the equipment.

No one has to single scooter or bicycle rental services out they have done so themselves with their business model. That is how the real world works.
I don't know who made the decision to make Lyft into a publicly-traded stock and why, but to me it just seems like an intentional move to feed the value of car-sharing to sharks whose appetite is based on a one-car-contract-per-person economy.

Ride-sharing is most certainly more cost-efficient than driving for individuals, and it is also a more cost-efficient use of motor-vehicles than single-household car ownership, but for investors it is more profitable to sell one or more cars/trucks per household, and that is the reason they will sell it into the ground. Of course, if people continue to use the ride-sharing service, there will be some value that they won't be able to destroy unless they saddle them with lawsuits, etc. so I expect to see more of that, as has been happening with the scooter-share companies.

The sad thing is that people aren't really happy with all the driving they have to do, but when all the alternatives have been killed off, they will continue to endure the misery purely out of the will to survive and the fear of being left behind in the rat race. It's a terrible thing when you consider how much research we've had (not to mention personal experience) about how much happier people are getting around car-free and avoiding congestion and sprawl-commuting.

Slavery has been illegal for over a century, and yet we've become enslaved to the automobile in just about the same amount of time.

I wonder why the SEC doesn't have the ability to recognize hostile/anti-competitive selling and protect publicly traded stocks from it so that actual investors can support industries they care about without losing their shirts to bull short-sellers. I'm sure that if car-free companies and other companies providing alternatives to dominant industries were protected from anti-competitive forces, they could carve out niche markets that would grow over time.

Last edited by tandempower; 04-05-19 at 07:37 PM.
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Old 04-05-19, 11:15 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
I don't know who made the decision to make Lyft into a publicly-traded stock and why, but to me it just seems like an intentional move to feed the value of car-sharing to sharks whose appetite is based on a one-car-contract-per-person economy.

Ride-sharing is most certainly more cost-efficient than driving for individuals, and it is also a more cost-efficient use of motor-vehicles than single-household car ownership, but for investors it is more profitable to sell one or more cars/trucks per household, and that is the reason they will sell it into the ground. Of course, if people continue to use the ride-sharing service, there will be some value that they won't be able to destroy unless they saddle them with lawsuits, etc. so I expect to see more of that, as has been happening with the scooter-share companies.

The sad thing is that people aren't really happy with all the driving they have to do, but when all the alternatives have been killed off, they will continue to endure the misery purely out of the will to survive and the fear of being left behind in the rat race. It's a terrible thing when you consider how much research we've had (not to mention personal experience) about how much happier people are getting around car-free and avoiding congestion and sprawl-commuting.

Slavery has been illegal for over a century, and yet we've become enslaved to the automobile in just about the same amount of time.

I wonder why the SEC doesn't have the ability to recognize hostile/anti-competitive selling and protect publicly traded stocks from it so that actual investors can support industries they care about without losing their shirts to bull short-sellers. I'm sure that if car-free companies and other companies providing alternatives to dominant industries were protected from anti-competitive forces, they could carve out niche markets that would grow over time.
there are governments that practice corporate protectionism. Just not our government. The problem comes when the protection stops.

That isn’t the point here. The point is the business model and its effect on the community. You might not like it and I might be indifferent but the flaws in the plan are more concerning to investors than true believers. True believers end up investing with Bernie Madoff.
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Old 04-05-19, 11:28 PM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
I wonder why the SEC doesn't have the ability to recognize hostile/anti-competitive selling and protect publicly traded stocks from it so that actual investors can support industries they care about without losing their shirts to bull short-sellers.
Sounds like an oxymoron.
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Old 04-06-19, 10:18 AM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
I don't know who made the decision to make Lyft into a publicly-traded stock and why, but to me it just seems like an intentional move to feed the value of car-sharing to sharks whose appetite is based on a one-car-contract-per-person economy.
EVERYTHING seems to fit into your bizarre "automotivist conspiracy" theory.
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