Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Recumbent
Reload this Page >

Help building my first recumbent

Recumbent What IS that thing?! Recumbents may be odd looking, but they have many advantages over a "wedgie" bicycle. Discuss the in's and out's recumbent lifestyle in the recumbent forum.

Help building my first recumbent

Reply

Old 02-19-19, 12:30 PM
  #1  
Ericoschmitt
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Florianópolis, Brazil
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Help building my first recumbent

Hello everyone!

For a few years i've know of the existance of recumbent bikes. I've always been interested in their aerodynamic advantages, but as I also race ocasionally, I can't use UCI illegal bikes for that. Since now I got all the upright racing bikes I wanted, I can think about a recumbent just for the fun of going faster, and this is a project I want to develop during this year. It's a quite lengthy post, but I hope some of you can help me with this project! Thanks in advance!

The thing is I live in Brazil and there are basically no recumbents around. Well, actually, there's a place near where I live that actually makes them in a very small scale. But they are not the kind that go fast. Seat above the wheels, 20 inch fat tires, not laid back, found a pic here: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ESwzrc0ma4...0/P1020291.jpg
The company actually makes steel gates for houses and stuff like that. So I don't think they are the right people to build me a custom machine.

Since all my upright bikes are custom steel, I mentioned the idea of making a recumbent to the framebuilder (who is a friend) and he agreed we could do it. I can't find anything to buy, so custom it is. The thing is: which type of bike? Been thinking about pros and cons of each design but I need experienced opinions! Here are my considerations:

1) I want the aero benefits, so I'll at least add windshield and tail fairing to the thing, the tail fairing could also double as storage.
2) Low seat is more aero, and the fairing being close to the ground makes it more stable to cross winds I guess. But I think its a good idea to have my eyes above knees so I can see something without a camera. I also won't have to bother with aero wheels. Anyway, I have something low racer style in mind.
3) That probably means small front wheel is the practical choice. But are there good 20 inch tires? Is Schwalbe Pro One tubeless the best and only choice at the moment? Should I fear they cease production and I'm left without good tires? I have 700c wheels and tires at hand, but that would mean high seat and probably slower, or a highly unpractical very long bike.
4) The rear wheel being the same size would make it small and more practical, since I'd have to stock only one model of tire and inner tubes in case of flat (pro one is tubeless). I don't believe there's any measurable rolling resistance difference to justify bigger rear wheel with pneumatic tires, rolling resistance and wheel size has been tested as early as 19th century, and it only makes a difference for solid wheels. What could justify 700c rear wheel is if I get RWD so I don't need massive chainrings. And I can use a wheel I have, although that isn't the determining factor.
5) I'm thinking SWB with front wheel between legs makes for the fastest machine. But how practical is steering? For that I think cable operated steering is the ideal way, but I concern about loose or broken cables.
6) Front or rear wheel drive? FWD makes a shorter chain and no pulleys, but what about steering? And high power pedalling, will I have to counter-steer to hold a straight line if I build the drive on the fork? I've seen one FWD bike that the crank is on the frame, but I suppose steering is very limited since any turn twists the chain. How steep can I climb before loosing traction? I don't intend to hit serious hills on purpose, but you never know. Some hills around here peak above 20%, but can be avoided, and I'm really building a machine for the flats, so probably never above 10%max.
FWD is also the simpler to build for a low seat bike.
The "Performer" model has a twisting iddle pulley, but I guess that design only works for high seat. Ideas?
And rear drive... means some 3 chain lengths. Will it wear at the same rate and make for expensive maintenance, or does it last 3 times longer since each link sees the cassette 1/3 as often? Do the guide pulleys add much drag? How limited would steering be, since the tire can rub the chain..? Is it too hard to enclose the chain to protect from dirt, since it will probably travel close to the ground..?
7) 20 inch drive wheel means huge chainrings, short cranks, or both. I bought a 120mm crank to experiment on my upright, the idea being foot speed will be the same and the cadence 30% higher, so chainring can be 30% smaller, but I haven't tested them yet (need to swap the bb for square taper). That would make 53/36 ok to ride, and fits 110bcd. I'd spin out 52/11 at about 80km/h if my theories are correct. Anything bigger means some 165mm crank and massive chainrings. Probably then FD can't shift more than 18t so that would limit low range with something stupid like 78/60 that I don't even know if I can find. Unless I have a pulley to double the ratio, or a system with two rear derailleurs so i can have a close ratio at the wheel and wide range in some 7 speed in the middle, using the big cog to pull the second chain, and only have one chainring at front. But that means adapting a freewheel and hanger on top of the fork. It could solve tire-chain clearance issue though, but also suck some 5w of chain friction.
I don't really consider 1x(12) because I don't want big gaps in a machine meant to ride fast on the flats. And probably 50t cassette is almost the size of the rims.
8) Then comfort. Since I can't stand over bumps or holes (and there are lots of around here, we have this kind of stuff in Brazil too: http://tinyurl.com/y4tt8c4b and http://tinyurl.com/yylmkge3 ), I might add some kind of suspension besides running 28mm tires, if I go the Schwalbe Pro One path. My reasoning is since a laid back recumbent pedaling motion is nearly horizontal, I wouldn't loose meaningful power to suspension swing as you do on a MTB. Rear suspension is quite easy to add, even if it's just short travel elastomer. Not sure about the front wheel, specially with fwd. Ideas? I could instead make some kind of suspended seat, borrowing principles from a beach chair. That would probably be light too.
8) Finally, what kind of handlebar? Simply get a mtb riser handlebar with some angle and cut it narrow, in a moto-gp style?

If you know of bikes I should borrow inspiration, please link me.
I've made all my upright bike projects myself on BikeCAD, but I don't think I can get a recumbent made there. Will I have to do it by hand?

Thanks for the help!
Ericoschmitt is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-19, 01:55 PM
  #2  
VegasTriker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sin City, Nevada
Posts: 2,041

Bikes: Catrike 700, Greenspeed GTO trike, , Linear LWB recumbent, Haluzak Horizon SWB recumbent, Balance 450 MTB, Cannondale SM800 Beast of the East

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
You might check out this forum You are being redirected.... It is the homebuilder's sub-forum at that site.

I wish you good luck. There's a lot to getting a bike that works and handles well at higher speeds. Steering is critical. The only person I know who has built his own recumbent bike is a close friend who is a medical doctor. He thought it would be fun to try and used plans and a partial setup from a company no longer in business. The bike was beautiful but on its maiden voyage, the frame broke at the bottom bracket. He wasn't going fast so was unhurt. He repaired the weakness but lost faith in the bike and it has hung from the ceiling of his garage for about 15 years. He went on to buy a long wheelbase bike and a trike.

Last edited by VegasTriker; 02-19-19 at 01:58 PM.
VegasTriker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-19, 04:27 PM
  #3  
Ericoschmitt
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Florianópolis, Brazil
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Originally Posted by VegasTriker View Post
You might check out this forum You are being redirected.... It is the homebuilder's sub-forum at that site.

I wish you good luck. There's a lot to getting a bike that works and handles well at higher speeds. Steering is critical. The only person I know who has built his own recumbent bike is a close friend who is a medical doctor. He thought it would be fun to try and used plans and a partial setup from a company no longer in business. The bike was beautiful but on its maiden voyage, the frame broke at the bottom bracket. He wasn't going fast so was unhurt. He repaired the weakness but lost faith in the bike and it has hung from the ceiling of his garage for about 15 years. He went on to buy a long wheelbase bike and a trike.
Uhmm... there's a lot to read there.

About the steering I guess as long as the resultant trail (HT angle and fork rake) is well calculated, it couldn't go wrong. I'm more worried on the fwd effect on steering, chain/tire clearance, that kind of thing.

I'm not really worried about frame breakage since the framebuilder is very skilled in welding, and we can just use an oversized tube for the main mast (under the seat), the rest is pretty much straight forward.
Ericoschmitt is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-19, 07:22 PM
  #4  
BlazingPedals
Senior Member
 
BlazingPedals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Middle of da Mitten
Posts: 10,762

Bikes: Trek 7500, RANS V-Rex, Optima Baron, Velokraft NoCom, M-5 Carbon Highracer, homebuilt recumbent

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 836 Post(s)
Find a picture of a bike you like and draw plans based on it. Use what parts you can salvage from one or more upright bikes and add your own parts as needed.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
IM001137.JPG (335.6 KB, 97 views)

Last edited by BlazingPedals; 02-19-19 at 07:26 PM.
BlazingPedals is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-19, 08:34 PM
  #5  
StephenH
Uber Goober
 
StephenH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dallas area, Texas
Posts: 11,622
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
Another resource, that I more often see mentioned in the "Alt Bikes" forum: https://www.atomiczombie.com/
(Note: I've not used them, so I point out the resource, but can't recommend/ disrecommend their plans, either.)
Extra weight won't make much difference in a flat area, but will work against you in a hilly area.
It seems like all the "fast" bikes I've seen, upright or recumbent, generally used 700 wheels, not sure why that is. Other things being equal, it helps if you can use the same tires and tubes as your other bikes and same as other riders.
A fairing may work against you in a hot climate, but work better in a cold climate.
Years ago, I used to see a local rider in a fully-faired recumbent with homemade fairing out of coroplast. He liked it, but wasn't especially fast, either, so I'm not so sure it really helped him.
__________________
"be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."
StephenH is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-19, 10:02 PM
  #6  
Ericoschmitt
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Florianópolis, Brazil
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Originally Posted by StephenH View Post
Another resource, that I more often see mentioned in the "Alt Bikes" forum: https://www.atomiczombie.com/
(Note: I've not used them, so I point out the resource, but can't recommend/ disrecommend their plans, either.)
Extra weight won't make much difference in a flat area, but will work against you in a hilly area.
It seems like all the "fast" bikes I've seen, upright or recumbent, generally used 700 wheels, not sure why that is. Other things being equal, it helps if you can use the same tires and tubes as your other bikes and same as other riders.
A fairing may work against you in a hot climate, but work better in a cold climate.
Years ago, I used to see a local rider in a fully-faired recumbent with homemade fairing out of coroplast. He liked it, but wasn't especially fast, either, so I'm not so sure it really helped him.
Thanks for the link! The pics already give me some ideas, I might buy one just for reference.

The record holder HPV bikes all have small wheels and massive chainrings, so that has to work...What tires do they use anyway?
I know fairing can work against rider in hot climate, and I live in Brazil. So that's why I'm thinking about tail fairing and windshield only to cover cranks and front wheel, although it would be cool being able to bolt some more on it later.

What kind of bikes have you had experience with regarding fwd/rwd? Any idea what should I be looking for if speed is the first priority? I won't be commuting on it, but I still have to be able to ride from home through city and then hit the road.

This 20/20 fwd lowracer does look like something I would ride: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c0/22...367a40a4c4.jpg
I'd still make it a bit more laid back and use rod or cable for steering so I can tuck my arms.
This is a fixed bb, how well do these things steer anyway?
Ericoschmitt is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-19, 06:59 AM
  #7  
BlazingPedals
Senior Member
 
BlazingPedals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Middle of da Mitten
Posts: 10,762

Bikes: Trek 7500, RANS V-Rex, Optima Baron, Velokraft NoCom, M-5 Carbon Highracer, homebuilt recumbent

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 836 Post(s)
FWD, at least the moving bottom bracket type like Cruzbike, is a love it or hate-it thing. I tried once and hated it. Way too much steering input from the pedals, no matter what I did. Even coasting tended to lock the steering.

Regarding small wheels, streamliners may require small wheels to fit the package. For them, air resistance is everything. Small wheels don't roll over irregularities as well as larger ones. And the rolling resistance numbers for even the best 20" tires are mediocre or worse compared to a 700c tire. My conclusion is, you're better off with 26" or 700c wheels, unless there's an overriding reason to use something else.
BlazingPedals is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-19, 01:22 PM
  #8  
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 29,124

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1098 Post(s)
bentrideronline.com

They have a home builder's forum and guys who have already dealt with all of the decisions that you are contemplating.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
Retro Grouch is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-19, 02:07 PM
  #9  
Leisesturm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,700
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1076 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Ericoschmitt View Post
For a few years i've know of the existance of recumbent bikes. I've always been interested in their aerodynamic advantages, but as I also race ocasionally, I can't use UCI illegal bikes for that. Since now I got all the upright racing bikes I wanted, I can think about a recumbent just for the fun of going faster, and this is a project I want to develop during this year. It's a quite lengthy post, but I hope some of you can help me with this project! Thanks in advance!
You ask a lot of good questions but you also make some incorrect assumptions. I think you should visit the WISIL site (recumbents.com). They are more construction oriented than BROL. But having a wide base of opinions is not that bad of a thing. Unless they all conflict and leave you nowhwere. You could do a lot worse than just buy a Performer Low (or High) racer and call it good!! You are NOT going to build a better bike on your own with no experience. Buying your first lowracer does not at all mean that your dream of building one has to be scratched. But you will at least have something to base it on. If you do decide to build then the earlier suggestion of the Atomic Zombie low (or high) racer is a really good one. A very good one.
Leisesturm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-19, 11:23 AM
  #10  
Ericoschmitt
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Florianópolis, Brazil
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
You ask a lot of good questions but you also make some incorrect assumptions. I think you should visit the WISIL site (recumbents.com). They are more construction oriented than BROL. But having a wide base of opinions is not that bad of a thing. Unless they all conflict and leave you nowhwere. You could do a lot worse than just buy a Performer Low (or High) racer and call it good!! You are NOT going to build a better bike on your own with no experience. Buying your first lowracer does not at all mean that your dream of building one has to be scratched. But you will at least have something to base it on. If you do decide to build then the earlier suggestion of the Atomic Zombie low (or high) racer is a really good one. A very good one.
Thats a very wise advice.
The only problem is that I live in Brazil and I can't find any recumbent bikes here, except that one I mentioned that is more like a backyard project than anything, so I'm pretty sure I can do better than that with the help of an experienced framebuilder.
Importing isn't really an option since shipping would cost as much or more as an used frame or bike, and we have ridiculously high taxes that go over product+shipping value, and add up to 92% (yes, thats correct) of the total value. Custom building would cost way less, so I can choose a model and make a copy of a design I like.
Ericoschmitt is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-19, 11:36 AM
  #11  
Ericoschmitt
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Florianópolis, Brazil
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Originally Posted by BlazingPedals View Post
FWD, at least the moving bottom bracket type like Cruzbike, is a love it or hate-it thing. I tried once and hated it. Way too much steering input from the pedals, no matter what I did. Even coasting tended to lock the steering.

Regarding small wheels, streamliners may require small wheels to fit the package. For them, air resistance is everything. Small wheels don't roll over irregularities as well as larger ones. And the rolling resistance numbers for even the best 20" tires are mediocre or worse compared to a 700c tire. My conclusion is, you're better off with 26" or 700c wheels, unless there's an overriding reason to use something else.
I think you are right on this. It is probably wiser to be practical and get a RWD with 700c rear wheel, if not both wheels, and don't worry about the possibility of full fairing in a first project. A windshild to cover the cranks will probably already help a lot.
It will already be faster than a TT bike anyway, and I can later build something else with more experience.
Ericoschmitt is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-19, 12:09 PM
  #12  
Leisesturm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,700
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1076 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Ericoschmitt View Post
I think you are right on this. It is probably wiser to be practical and get a RWD with 700c rear wheel, if not both wheels, and don't worry about the possibility of full fairing in a first project. A windshild to cover the cranks will probably already help a lot.
It will already be faster than a TT bike anyway, and I can later build something else with more experience.
You have to be about 6'1" (185cm) to ride a 700/700 highracer comfortably. The 700/406 lowracer is a much better bet. Riding one has its own challenges but they can be overcome with practice. The shipping charges for Performer bikes is baked into the price. You don't have to buy a complete bike, most people just buy the frameset and furnish their own running gear. It lowers the customs charges immensely. Still, I can see that you have your heart set on building. Did you see the WISIL site yet? Lots of good info there for homebuilders.
Leisesturm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-19, 01:43 PM
  #13  
Skankingbiker
Senior Member
 
Skankingbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 371

Bikes: AllCity Nature Boy, On-one Pompino) , Fuji Roubaix road bike, Ninder EMD, Voodoo Hoodoo MTB, Surly Pugsley/Krampug

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
I can recommend performer and its FWD model. Agree about the height thing and 700c wheels. I am 5'8" and thats one of the reasons I went with dual 451 wheels. IMHO, unless you are racing, feeling "comfortable"--as in in control, not worried about falling starts, etc--is more important that outright speed.
Skankingbiker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-19, 10:04 PM
  #14  
Ericoschmitt
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Florianópolis, Brazil
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
I took a quick look on the WISIL site, but will look deeper with more time, and if I really decide on building.

I dropped an email to Performer to see if they sell frameset and seat only, lets see how much that would cost!

I liked their low racers with RWD better I guess... Hard to decide when I can't test ride anything!

BTW, do chains on RWD lasts longer for touching the cogs 1/3 less times, therefore making maintence cost the same as an upright bike, or will a long chain make me spend more money on the long run?

Today I also found out about Flevo, does looks interesting and fun, but they don't look particularly fast, which is what I'm looking for. Well, the answer to everything in life is always getting another bike! hahaha

Last edited by Ericoschmitt; 02-21-19 at 10:07 PM.
Ericoschmitt is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-19, 10:11 AM
  #15  
Leisesturm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,700
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1076 Post(s)
The thing that really extends a chains life is being kept clean. The longer chain of an RWD recumbent MIGHT last longer but you can make sure it does by using chaintubes which enclose the chain and reduce the amount of dirt and dust it picks up from the road. The additional drag is on the order of a few watts of energy, not enough to get worried about. The Flevo (and Python) lowracers are very hard to learn and you will be slower until you adapt. Same thing with regular recumbents! If you think you are going to start setting speed records the same month you get your lowracer finished ... ... I doubt it. And ... its worth pointing out ... recumbents are faster, yes. But faster needs to be qualified. In the real world of variable road surfaces and elevations, a standard bike with a fit, experienced rider in a nice tuck can give a lowracer a good run for the money. If the recumbent rider (and they usually are) is not that experienced the standard bike will crush him. Simply put, I am not expecting all out speed on a bent will be faster. I do expect that similar speeds to what were attainable on a regular road racer will be easier to achieve and hold on the recumbent.
Leisesturm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-19, 07:08 PM
  #16  
BlazingPedals
Senior Member
 
BlazingPedals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Middle of da Mitten
Posts: 10,762

Bikes: Trek 7500, RANS V-Rex, Optima Baron, Velokraft NoCom, M-5 Carbon Highracer, homebuilt recumbent

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 836 Post(s)
Another thing about speed is, not all recumbents ARE faster than road bikes. There's this tendency to treat all recumbents as if they were the same, and they're just not. If you want a fast one, it'll need to be light, stiff, and aero. The biggest factors in aerodynamics are to recline the seat and keep the feet in front of the rider, not below. Your feet will be in your field of view. Stiff and light are somewhat mutually-exclusive. I think the boom is where you need to pay special attention to stiffness, since it's usually not triangulated. My Baron has a 60mm main tube, and still I can feel the power NOT getting to the road when I pour it on.

Last edited by BlazingPedals; 02-23-19 at 04:17 PM.
BlazingPedals is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-19, 07:47 PM
  #17  
Ericoschmitt
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Florianópolis, Brazil
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Originally Posted by BlazingPedals View Post
Another thing about speed is, not all recumbents ARE faster than road bikes. There's this tendency to treat all recumbents as if they were the same, and they're just not. If you want a fast one, it'll need to be light, stiff, and aero. The biggest factors in aerodynamics are to recline the seat and keep the feet in front of the rider, not below. Your feet will be in your field of view. Stiff and light are somewhat mutually-exclusive. I think the boom is where you need to pay special attention to stiffness, since it's usually not triangulated. My Baron has a 60mm main tube, and still I can feel the power NOT getting to the road when I pour it on.
I know that. I managed to find some used recumbents for sale here in Brazil but they look to be lower end stuff and not very fast. Except one but it's on the other side of the country, here: https://ce.olx.com.br/fortaleza-e-re...leta-585063383 looks like double 700c wheels and steel frame. I might be able to swap the handlebars for something narrower and lower for a nice tuck. Still would make the shipping cheaper than importing. But honestly, I can draw a plan for a frame better than that and get it custom built.

BTW I got an answer from Performer and a lowracer frameset would cost me 1150+150shipping. Put the ridiculous brazilian taxes on top of that and it makes more than double of what I was expecting to spend on the whole bike. I was expecting that... thats why building is my first option.

The other bikes I found here are touring / leisure style, underseat steerer... none of what I want.
Ericoschmitt is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-19, 09:56 AM
  #18  
VegasTriker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sin City, Nevada
Posts: 2,041

Bikes: Catrike 700, Greenspeed GTO trike, , Linear LWB recumbent, Haluzak Horizon SWB recumbent, Balance 450 MTB, Cannondale SM800 Beast of the East

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
The bike you show is listed at 1600 Brazilian Reals which translates to $427 in US currency. There are not a lot of two wheeled recumbents available at that price here with the exception of some real dogs. The 16 speed (2 X 8) suggests it is an older recumbent bike because most builders started using 2 X 9 or 3 X 9 a long time ago. I still think you would get a more stable handling bike by buying one than by building your own.
VegasTriker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-19, 10:29 AM
  #19  
Leisesturm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,700
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1076 Post(s)
Originally Posted by VegasTriker View Post
The bike you show is listed at 1600 Brazilian Reals which translates to $427 in US currency. There are not a lot of two wheeled recumbents available at that price here with the exception of some real dogs. The 16 speed (2 X 8) suggests it is an older recumbent bike because most builders started using 2 X 9 or 3 X 9 a long time ago. I still think you would get a more stable handling bike by buying one than by building your own.
Agree. And if his prices for the Performer frameset is in Reals ... 1150 plus 150 shipping ... well you don't need a degree in Advanced Mathematics to figure that its less than 1600 Real (427 USD). I DOUBT a homebuilder can put a BAD frame together for that little money. BTW its just as well that the highracer in the picture is on the other side of the country. Blazing Pedals ran down the essentials for a speedy bike and that one fails the aerodynamics qualifying round big time. Feet are too low and seat recline is not low enough. Weight, I have no idea, but it doesn't look particularly light either. Speed costs money. Real speed costs real money. Interesting that Brazilian's name their currency thus. Having a budget and a need for speed are mutually exclusive. It is VERY hard to make an amazingly light frame with steel. The Performer frames are aluminum. They aren't especially light, but they are stiff and as good as anything else made with aluminum. Most homebuilders cannot weld aluminum. On the BROL site in the Homebuilder section is a recent thread for a mid-racer (probably steel) that has the potential to be very fast. I say potential to be fast because once the frame is finished you need wheels and tires and they also have a profound impact on the final result. TBH I would be looking at Carbon Fiber or even Wood! Aircraft Spruce is strong and light and a good design can give Carbon Fiber a good run for the money. On a hard drive somewhere I have plans I bought (no longer availalbe) from James Robinson for low (and high) racer recumbents in 2 x 4 lumber.
Leisesturm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-19, 10:41 AM
  #20  
Leisesturm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,700
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1076 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Ericoschmitt View Post
The other bikes I found here are touring / leisure style, underseat steerer... none of what I want.
Are you sure about that? :-)
Leisesturm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-19, 12:23 PM
  #21  
Ericoschmitt
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Florianópolis, Brazil
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Agree. And if his prices for the Performer frameset is in Reals ... 1150 plus 150 shipping ... well you don't need a degree in Advanced Mathematics to figure that its less than 1600 Real (427 USD). I DOUBT a homebuilder can put a BAD frame together for that little money. BTW its just as well that the highracer in the picture is on the other side of the country. Blazing Pedals ran down the essentials for a speedy bike and that one fails the aerodynamics qualifying round big time. Feet are too low and seat recline is not low enough. Weight, I have no idea, but it doesn't look particularly light either. Speed costs money. Real speed costs real money. Interesting that Brazilian's name their currency thus. Having a budget and a need for speed are mutually exclusive. It is VERY hard to make an amazingly light frame with steel. The Performer frames are aluminum. They aren't especially light, but they are stiff and as good as anything else made with aluminum. Most homebuilders cannot weld aluminum. On the BROL site in the Homebuilder section is a recent thread for a mid-racer (probably steel) that has the potential to be very fast. I say potential to be fast because once the frame is finished you need wheels and tires and they also have a profound impact on the final result. TBH I would be looking at Carbon Fiber or even Wood! Aircraft Spruce is strong and light and a good design can give Carbon Fiber a good run for the money. On a hard drive somewhere I have plans I bought (no longer availalbe) from James Robinson for low (and high) racer recumbents in 2 x 4 lumber.

Oh the Performer frameset price was in USD, so 1300 USD plus all the taxes thats 8111 BRL for the rim brake version, $150 more for disc brake, much more than 1600 BRL!
The guy is not a homebuilder really, he's a very skilled framebuilder, only hasn't made a recumbent yet. I don't understand why the trail/rake maths should be any different on a recumbent... And I can get that on a plan for reference. Trail is 65mm on the mentioned plan.
I really don't care about weight at all, that has marginal effects on semi-flat routes. That discussion is a can of worms but I'm pretty much convinced weight is not important at all for a recumbent that won't climb anything steep, I'm all in for aero and rolling resistance. All I'd need for climbing is one cog bigger and a bit slower. My heavy gravel-tourer with 60mm G-One tires and luggage climbs just fine, only slower. On the flats I feel no difference if I add 10kg to it.

I know it's hard to make a light frame on steel, my race bike is made of Columbus Spirit, 6.9kg climbing mode and 7.5kg with aero wheels and smoother tubeless tires. Took a long time to get done!

BUT FORGET ALL ABOVE, look at what I've found! After researching some old brazilian forum posts I came across this brand. It didn't show up on searches because they don't mention the word "recumbent" (or "reclinada" in pt) anywhere... Duh!
https://www.facebook.com/commerce/pr...fS4&__tn__=C-R

Now that convinces me to be aero enough if I fit narrower handlebars. A pair of Schwalbe Pro One's and a pair of homemade discs with expansive foam should make it. Plus windshield.
And its only 300km away! U$530 for the full bike although I'd buy the frame kit only (for U$400~) and get a short crankset with bigger (oval) chainring(s?), probably 11s on the back. Well, I actually got that kit at hand, only missing the 406mm wheels.

I'm probably going with that now I've found it! The guy mentioned it's possible to use a 406mm rear wheel for improved aero, he only didn't tell me if he makes a shorter rear fork accordingly and if he compensates the fork offset with the angle change.

But I still have ideas for a future build. Actually radical ones. Full on UCI illegal. I'll leave some clues for you to ferment:
-Linear foot motion;
-String drive similar to Stringbike
-CVT shifting;
-Heavier pull when leg is stretched.

And yes I know how to make that CVT work I'm talking to a guy in the mechanical engeneery department of federal university to find a way to machine all the parts required... Thats a longer term project, could take over an year just to get a riding prototype, but I've been dreaming with that for the past year already.
Ericoschmitt is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-19, 12:25 PM
  #22  
Ericoschmitt
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Florianópolis, Brazil
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Are you sure about that? :-)
Absolutely, I want fast, not comfy. I only don't go for a full fairing HPV because I'd crash and kill myself, and it's too unpractical. Full on UCI illegal. For road races I've got a machine already... And for touring too.
Ericoschmitt is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-19, 05:16 PM
  #23  
Leisesturm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,700
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1076 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Ericoschmitt View Post
I'm probably going with that now I've found it! The guy mentioned it's possible to use a 406mm rear wheel for improved aero, he only didn't tell me if he makes a shorter rear fork accordingly and if he compensates the fork offset with the angle change.
I would too. That is one sweet bike. 406 rear wheel would NOT improve aero! Only if YOU weren't there, but you are, and the rear wheel is in your wind shadow so the full size rear wheel is not an issue and your gearing and tire choices improve. Where do you find oval chainrings bigger than 50T? How much do they cost? Short cranks are for if you have a problem with heel strike against the front wheel which should not be the case with a 406 front wheel. IF you shorten the cranks then you should also lower the gearing, most people don't do that. They just use 155mm cranks with the same gears that the rest of us use 170mm cranks to turn and then wonder why their knees still hurt, or why they are still so slow. BTW a standard bike can be out of UCI compliance for various reasons. A recumbent isn't UCI compliant. Period. Once you are on a recumbent you are dead to the UCI. Most of us don't care. The Stringbike drivetrain still has rotary motion of the cranks. It has all the disadvantages of being way more complex and fragile than a bicycle drivetrain needs to be, heavier too, probably. But that is just first impressions. It looks interesting. I am going to study it some more. Linear pedal motion is useful if you need your foot motion to stay inside the confines of a fairing. Consider however: year after year, the fastest recumbent in the world is what amounts to a drop dead simple Easy Racer (LWB) recumbent inside a carbon fiber shell. You wouldn't kill yourself if you tried to ride it around town but if you fell over for whatever reason getting back up again would not be quick, or easy. But have you seen a
streamliner? More information available here. I don't think there are that many on the road and they don't look cheap but the idea of a two wheel recumbent in a shell being ridden on public roads is intriguing to some.
Leisesturm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-19, 08:50 PM
  #24  
violini
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 41

Bikes: Modern steel frame road bike

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Since you mention that you also race occasionally, the top choice is:

Cruzbike Vendetta V20

This is a front wheel drive moving bottom bracket bike. Don't worry about "pedal steer". It is very easy to learn to ride. I remember that I saw one on youtube some one in Brazil had this bike. You will have to order it from the company in US.

I never like rear wheel drive stick bikes such as Schlitter Encore and M5.

Last edited by violini; 02-28-19 at 10:30 AM.
violini is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-19, 09:18 PM
  #25  
Leisesturm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,700
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1076 Post(s)
Originally Posted by violini View Post
Since you mention that you also race occasionally, the two top choices are:

(1) Cruzbike Vendetta V20

This is a front wheel drive moving bottom bracket bike. Don't worry about "pedal steer". It is very easy to learn to ride. I remember that I saw one on youtube some one in Brazil had this bike. You will have to order it from the company in US.

(2).Schlister M5

This is a rear wheel drive stick bike.
Both bikes have 700C wheels and easy to copy to make your own.
M5 is not made by Schlitter. M5 is a European bike that can take a variety of wheel sizes and is made by Bram Moen? Ligfietsen. Schlitter is an American company and their highracer model is the Encore. For every person who thinks Cruzbikes are easy to ride there are three who do not. Racing is not just about speed. It is also about control. It literally takes years to control a recumbent to the point where a person is competitive with it. One thing about recumbent competitions is that often all the competitors are new to recumbents. This gives all the competitors an even chance but its really hard on the bikes. The competitors too. Ouch ...
Leisesturm is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service