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Oslo: The Journey to Car Free

Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

Oslo: The Journey to Car Free

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Old 05-01-17, 12:41 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
There may well be 10x the national average LVC there and you don't know because they don't come on this sub-forum and make a big deal out of something that is just a small part of the lifestyle they have chosen and that their particular circumstances allow.
Unless laser vision correction helps them live car free, I don't get the relevance.
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Old 05-01-17, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
Unless laser vision correction helps them live car free, I don't get the relevance.
What's your metric? A "Livability" index makes a lot more sense that simply being anti-car. Surely Davis does not have a high "Livability" index because the residents there are anti-car? Irvine, CA has a higher "Livability" index than Davis. Does that mean it has more LVC residents? You can be anti-car anywhere just as you can enjoy a comfortable lifestyle without being anti-car.
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Old 05-01-17, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
What's your metric? A "Livability" index makes a lot more sense that simply being anti-car. Surely Davis does not have a high "Livability" index because the residents there are anti-car? Irvine, CA has a higher "Livability" index than Davis. Does that mean it has more LVC residents? You can be anti-car anywhere just as you can enjoy a comfortable lifestyle without being anti-car.
My metric, since we are in a forum specifically intended for discussing living car free or car light (see forum description) would be how well you can live car free or car light in Cayucos, and the answer is - you pretty much can't. Not that it isn't a lovely place.
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Old 05-01-17, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
Wow, I didn't know about all this Scandinavian hostility!
Don't expect to learn much about any area by only looking at edited sales promotions or antiquated film clips posted on YouTube and referenced by idealoges.
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Old 05-01-17, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
My metric, since we are in a forum specifically intended for discussing living car free or car light (see forum description) would be how well you can live car free or car light in Cayucos, and the answer is - you pretty much can't. Not that it isn't a lovely place.
You can LCF as a hand on a tuna boat in the middle of the Pacific.
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Old 05-01-17, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
You can LCF as a hand on a tuna boat in the middle of the Pacific.
You can own a dozen cars and drive them everyday to and from your McMansion and still proudly wear the LCF/Car-light label (as the term is used on this list), just as long as you occasionally ride a bike or walk somewhere, anywhere. Or take a bus or commuter train every now and then.
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Old 05-01-17, 02:20 PM
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What LCF is mostly about once you strip away all of the moralizing, politics and religion is simply a description of life in places where it doesn't make sense to drive:

I will be the first to admit that there is one key factor has allowed me to enjoy a car-free life for 10 years in 5 or 6 different cities... (see, https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/1-f...-10-years.html )
The upshot of it is, you can LCF anywhere but to make it work without taking a serious hit to a "livable" lifestyle means you pretty much can only live in certain places and forget about everywhere else--i.e.,

In every city, I chose a place from which I could easily and enjoyably get to my key destinations either on foot, bicycle, or public transit... the key thread has been living in a location in which it doesn't make sense to drive. (Ibid.)
--i.e., LCF isn't about much more than living like most any healthy person could and likely would choose to live when circumstances make it a viable option.
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Old 05-01-17, 02:44 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
You can LCF as a hand on a tuna boat in the middle of the Pacific.
Until you land, and then you have to decide.
Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
What LCF is mostly about once you strip away all of the moralizing, politics and religion is simply a description of life in places where it doesn't make sense to drive:
No, you can also LCF in places where driving is optional.
Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
The upshot of it is, you can LCF anywhere but to make it work without taking a serious hit to a "livable" lifestyle means you pretty much can only live in certain places and forget about everywhere else--i.e.,
Somewhat true. There are places where LCF is much more practical and places like Cayucos where it is much less so.
Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
--i.e., LCF isn't about much more than living like most any healthy person could and likely would choose to live when circumstances make it a viable option.
LOL - I don't think you actually meant to say this.

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Old 05-01-17, 02:49 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
You can own a dozen cars and drive them everyday to and from your McMansion and still proudly wear the LCF/Car-light label (as the term is used on this list), just as long as you occasionally ride a bike or walk somewhere, anywhere. Or take a bus or commuter train every now and then.
Something you completely invented, which applies to nobody who has ever posted here.
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Old 05-01-17, 03:40 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
Something you completely invented, which applies to nobody who has ever posted here.

Most of the people who post in this forum own a vehicle...and/or regularly use a vehicle such as taxis or car-share or buses or they bum rides from other people.
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Old 05-01-17, 04:48 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Most of the people who post in this forum own a vehicle...and/or regularly use a vehicle such as taxis or car-share or buses or they bum rides from other people.
That's quite a different statement from I-Like-To-Bike's extravagant exaggeration about people who "occasionally ride a bike or walk somewhere, anywhere. Or take a bus or commuter train every now and then", and even so, I don't believe yours is accurate. When we had a thread on uber and cabs a couple of years ago most people said they hardly used them, or not at all. Buses are not the same thing as cars. People who own cars can still minimize their use. People who don't own a car, but use or ride in a car very occasionally, are a lot closer to being car-free than someone who owns a car all the time and uses it daily. I haven't seen anybody here say they "regularly" bum rides - if you don't quote, it weren't wrote.

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Old 05-01-17, 05:47 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
Something you completely invented, which applies to nobody who has ever posted here.
Baloney, everybody is car-light who claims to be so. When is a person who claims the mantle of car light, not car light?

Are you stating that people who occasionally ride a bike or walk somewhere, anywhere, or take a bus or commuter train every now and then are NOT car light? What defines a person who owns/drives a car as not car light? Is it not ever riding a bike, not ever walking about outside the home, and never using public transit or what? If that is not the disqualification basis for car light status, how many walking, biking or bus trips are necessary to qualify?

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Old 05-01-17, 07:08 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Baloney, everybody is car-light who claims to be so. When is a person who claims the mantle of car light, not car light?

Are you stating that people who occasionally ride a bike or walk somewhere, anywhere, or take a bus or commuter train every now and then are NOT car light? What defines a person who owns/drives a car as not car light? Is it not ever riding a bike, not ever walking about outside the home, and never using public transit or what? If that is not the disqualification basis for car light status, how many walking, biking or bus trips are necessary to qualify?
It's sort of like being bald. You don't apply the term to someone who has a little hair loss, you apply it to someone who has a lot of hair loss. For illustration purposes, my personal claim to being car light is based mostly on commuting although I do some weekend errands on foot or transit. In 2016 I took the bus to work 83 days, and rode the bike 134.5 days and took a cab one way once. I didn't drive my family car to work. I'm not claiming a medal, just pointing out that this is not 'occasional'.
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Old 05-01-17, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
...

I didn't drive my family car to work. I'm not claiming a medal, just pointing out that....
... I did do 3 heart surgeries that day and rode home with my Wonder light!
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Old 05-01-17, 09:07 PM
  #65  
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Yep - can't look away. LOL
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Old 05-02-17, 05:23 PM
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Can this definitional debating about 'car-free' finally be ended by simply acknowledging that this is a bike forum, so the only reason it was pertinent to create an LCF sub-forum separate from commuting or cargo bikes was to discuss the goal of living without driving, which may include transit and walking, and not just biking?

Likewise, can we stop making 'car-free' a personal status that is either achieved or not, with no in-between? Striving to be more car-free is the goal, not making 'car-free' an absolute category so that people can be told that whether they drive one day a year or every day, they are not 'car-free' so don't bother. The point is striving for liberation from driving-dependency, not claiming or attaining a status.
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Old 05-02-17, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Can this definitional debating about 'car-free' finally be ended by simply acknowledging that this is a bike forum, so the only reason it was pertinent to create an LCF sub-forum separate from commuting or cargo bikes was to discuss the goal of living without driving, which may include transit and walking, and not just biking?

Likewise, can we stop making 'car-free' a personal status that is either achieved or not, with no in-between? Striving to be more car-free is the goal, not making 'car-free' an absolute category so that people can be told that whether they drive one day a year or every day, they are not 'car-free' so don't bother. The point is striving for liberation from driving-dependency, not claiming or attaining a stats.
I don't think so-- it's either a conscious or unconscious set of circumstances of living or choosing to live in a place where mobility without the personal transportation is not an issue (e.g., living in an urban area, on or near a college campus or even a small town (Cabot Cove?) or a conscious or unconscious choice to give up mobility (included here might be, for example, persons who chose to drink and drive and got a DUI so they cannot legally drive).
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Old 05-03-17, 01:53 AM
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The next big thing in LCF urban mobility?


Me-Mover: Human Powered Step Driven Scooter
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Old 05-03-17, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
I don't think so-- it's either a conscious or unconscious set of circumstances of living or choosing to live in a place where mobility without the personal transportation is not an issue (e.g., living in an urban area, on or near a college campus or even a small town (Cabot Cove?) or a conscious or unconscious choice to give up mobility (included here might be, for example, persons who chose to drink and drive and got a DUI so they cannot legally drive).
You could live in a place where non-motorized transportation IS an issue, and still make it a goal to LCF and struggle with ways to do so. You might be living someplace LCF is inconvenient and trying to find work telecommuting, or start a business like a local store that would facilitate LCF, or you might be looking for an area to live that's not blatantly LCF-friendly, yet you see potential in it for using biking and transit to get around.

It's not all about how conducive an area is to LCF. Most driving commutes are under 10 miles, so practically anyone without dependent children at home can take an extra half-hour or hour before and after work to bike-commute, if they want. It may not be as LCF-friendly as living a few blocks from a train/bus stop that takes you right to work, or living 2 miles from work so you can bike comfortably in a few minutes, but it isn't an insurmountable obstacle to going CF.
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Old 05-03-17, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
...

Most driving commutes are under 10 miles...

.
To get to work, the average commuter travels approximately 15 miles one way. Two out of three commuters (68 percent) reported a one-way commute of 15 miles or less, 22 percent traveled between 16 and 30 miles and 11 percent traveled more than 30 miles. ~OmniStats - U.S. Department of Transportation
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Old 05-03-17, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Most driving commutes are under 10 miles,
Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
Two out of three commuters (68 percent) reported a one-way commute of 15 miles or less,
No contradiction there.
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Old 05-03-17, 11:38 AM
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Given the lifestyle of most, the average person apparently does not have enough hours in the day to LCF... at least, the average productively employed individual who is trying to earn enough during his or her highest earning years to plan for a comfortable retirement.

According to the U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Highway Administration (FHWA), the average American driver logs 13,476 miles each year.

and,

For cyclists in Copenhagen, the average cycling speed is 15.5 km/h (9.6 mph). On a racing bicycle, a reasonably fit rider can ride at 40 km/h (25 mph) on flat ground for short periods.

That works out to ~117 hrs/month on the bike or ~4 hrs./day
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Old 05-03-17, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
No contradiction there.

Well within a 50% margin of error so, okay for government work?
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Old 05-03-17, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
Given the lifestyle of most, the average person apparently does not have enough hours in the day to LCF... at least, the average productively employed individual who is trying to earn enough during his or her highest earning years to plan for a comfortable retirement....

According to the U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Highway Administration (FHWA), the average American driver logs 13,476 miles each year.

Half the people in Copenhagen commute by bike and the average distance is under 3 km. Who's in a better position to save for retirement?
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Old 05-03-17, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
To get to work, the average commuter travels approximately 15 miles one way. Two out of three commuters (68 percent) reported a one-way commute of 15 miles or less, 22 percent traveled between 16 and 30 miles and 11 percent traveled more than 30 miles. ~OmniStats - U.S. Department of Transportation
It would be possible for people to live and work closer together, if employers were willing to put effort into it and employees were willing to be flexible in changing work patterns to make it possible. People just want to have an excuse to drive because they don't see the unsustainability in it. The moment they do, it will be amazing how fast the economy will be able to transition to LCF as primary transportation.
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