Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Fatbikes
Reload this Page >

Ice, studs & tire pressure

Fatbikes Designed for use in sand, mud or snow, Fat bikes are the right choice for true all-terrain riding. Check here for the latest on these fun, adventurous two-wheeled machines.

Ice, studs & tire pressure

Old 02-02-18, 09:18 AM
  #1  
Daniel4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,952
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 660 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Ice, studs & tire pressure

Maybe I'm over thinking this but I'd like some confirmation.

A tire with higher pressure would have less surface contact on ice than one with lower pressure.

So the higher pressure tire would have less studs digging in but each stud would have more force so would dig in deeper and give you more traction.

That's why I recently pumped my tires back up to 7psi from 5psi so I can ride in both snow and ice without too much resistance on pavement.
Daniel4 is offline  
Old 02-02-18, 12:41 PM
  #2  
gecho
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,249

Bikes: 2009 Trek 520

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I tried lower rear tire pressure on black ice, but tire bounce negated the benefit of more studs making contact because the contact became intermittent. Front tire doesn't bounce much under pedaling so I can leave that one at a lower pressure.
gecho is offline  
Old 02-02-18, 01:28 PM
  #3  
Daniel4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,952
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 660 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by gecho View Post
I tried lower rear tire pressure on black ice, but tire bounce negated the benefit of more studs making contact because the contact became intermittent. Front tire doesn't bounce much under pedaling so I can leave that one at a lower pressure.
Don't you mean that higher pressure creates more bounce than lower pressure? So if the front tire doesn't bounce much even under high pressure, it would benefit from having the studs dig in with more force, wouldn't it?

And if the rear tire bounces a lot, does that mean it would be better for the rear to have lower pressure to maintain the surface contact even though the studs won't dig in as much?
Daniel4 is offline  
Old 02-02-18, 04:51 PM
  #4  
gecho
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,249

Bikes: 2009 Trek 520

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Don't you mean that higher pressure creates more bounce than lower pressure?
By bounce I mean the rim moving up and down as the sidewalls flex, not the tire leaving the ground. At low pressure the rim moving up and down creates a point at which very little weight is on the rear wheel making it easy for the wheel to spin out. At higher pressure the tire is firm and the sidewalls flex very little.
gecho is offline  
Old 02-05-18, 02:16 PM
  #5  
Hypno Toad
meh
 
Hypno Toad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Hopkins, MN
Posts: 3,560

Bikes: 17 Breezer Radar Pro; 15 Surly Pugsley; 13 Felt Z85; 11 Globe Daily; 09 Kona Dew Drop; 96 Mondonico

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 615 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Maybe I'm over thinking this but I'd like some confirmation.

A tire with higher pressure would have less surface contact on ice than one with lower pressure.

So the higher pressure tire would have less studs digging in but each stud would have more force so would dig in deeper and give you more traction.

That's why I recently pumped my tires back up to 7psi from 5psi so I can ride in both snow and ice without too much resistance on pavement.
It's dependent on the tires you're using, not all tires have the same tread/stud pattern. I have 45NRTH Dillinger 4 studded tires and have been happy with 6 psi on bare ice and good for soft snow too. You still can't do anything crazy on the bare ice.

For reference, here's a video from a race I did last month on a frozen lake:

Hypno Toad is offline  
Old 12-29-18, 12:10 AM
  #6  
Craptacular8
Senior Member
 
Craptacular8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 496
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
@Hyno Toad. Not currently a fat bike rider, but very tempted. For most fat bike races/events in MN, would studded tires, both front and back be recommended, or is front studded enough?
Craptacular8 is offline  
Old 01-03-19, 08:47 PM
  #7  
lmtada
Junior Member
 
lmtada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 24

Bikes: Trek Fuel 100, GT Road Bike

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Good video. Going good pace on ice. Then spinning out on ice patches. Have same tires Dillinger 4 studded. Running 10psi f/r. Notice quite bit tire bounce. Try lowering to 6/7 psi. New to the fat bike. This bike have many possibilities. Feel like a tank. Go through anything with them.
Cheers
pb43

Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
It's dependent on the tires you're using, not all tires have the same tread/stud pattern. I have 45NRTH Dillinger 4 studded tires and have been happy with 6 psi on bare ice and good for soft snow too. You still can't do anything crazy on the bare ice.

For reference, here's a video from a race I did last month on a frozen lake:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT4xobVIU1w
lmtada is offline  
Old 01-04-19, 07:58 AM
  #8  
Hypno Toad
meh
 
Hypno Toad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Hopkins, MN
Posts: 3,560

Bikes: 17 Breezer Radar Pro; 15 Surly Pugsley; 13 Felt Z85; 11 Globe Daily; 09 Kona Dew Drop; 96 Mondonico

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 615 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Craptacular8 View Post
@Hyno Toad. Not currently a fat bike rider, but very tempted. For most fat bike races/events in MN, would studded tires, both front and back be recommended, or is front studded enough?
For races and more aggressive riding (ie twisty single-track), I like front and rear studded tires. The small number of winter races I've done, they have all included some lake ice or refreeze sections that will hurt you with out studded tires. If I get into more winter races, I want to get a set of Bud and Lou tires for races without ice, friends tell me they are a great combo on snow.

OTOH I like studded front only for commuting on roads or MUPs.
Hypno Toad is offline  
Old 01-04-19, 08:54 PM
  #9  
Craptacular8
Senior Member
 
Craptacular8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 496
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Studs in MN

Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
For races and more aggressive riding (ie twisty single-track), I like front and rear studded tires. The small number of winter races I've done, they have all included some lake ice or refreeze sections that will hurt you with out studded tires. If I get into more winter races, I want to get a set of Bud and Lou tires for races without ice, friends tell me they are a great combo on snow.

OTOH I like studded front only for commuting on roads or MUPs.
thanks for the information. I stopped by my local bike shop...for cleats of course, asked if they had any reasonable fat bikes...picking up the shop owner’s Pugs as my new to me fat bike. Currently setup tubeless with the 120 tpi Nates( I have yet to read a review that found any flavor of Nates to not be slow rolling). He also suggested front and rear studded tires for my intended use. I have one groomed trail I can ride nearby, not technical in the slightest, but everything else’s will likely have a bit of scattered ice. I cringe at the price of tires, so am going to try the 120 tpi studded cake eaters. Sad that $300 for tires seems “reasonable,” lol.
Craptacular8 is offline  
Old 01-07-19, 10:24 AM
  #10  
Hypno Toad
meh
 
Hypno Toad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Hopkins, MN
Posts: 3,560

Bikes: 17 Breezer Radar Pro; 15 Surly Pugsley; 13 Felt Z85; 11 Globe Daily; 09 Kona Dew Drop; 96 Mondonico

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 615 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Craptacular8 View Post


thanks for the information. I stopped by my local bike shop...for cleats of course, asked if they had any reasonable fat bikes...picking up the shop owner’s Pugs as my new to me fat bike. Currently setup tubeless with the 120 tpi Nates( I have yet to read a review that found any flavor of Nates to not be slow rolling). He also suggested front and rear studded tires for my intended use. I have one groomed trail I can ride nearby, not technical in the slightest, but everything else’s will likely have a bit of scattered ice. I cringe at the price of tires, so am going to try the 120 tpi studded cake eaters. Sad that $300 for tires seems “reasonable,” lol.
I think the Nates are only good for loose dirt/mud; since I never ride those conditions I really don't like them.

Studded fat tires are crazy $$$! I was reminded many times that my bike tires cost more than a car tires. But, I put more miles on my bike than my car, so it makes sense to me
Hypno Toad is offline  
Old 01-12-19, 10:39 AM
  #11  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 18,005
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 11 Times in 11 Posts
do you think the people falling during that race had studs? Seemed like the ice to snow transitions caused a lot of problems.

One of the last times I commuted on ice, my bike started sliding on ice as I was approaching a stop at the bottom of a hill. I think that was the only time that any of my bikes with studs has ever done that. I studded the back tire myself, so it's not fully studded. I don't think that has ever really been the cause of any problems.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 01-14-19, 07:46 AM
  #12  
Hypno Toad
meh
 
Hypno Toad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Hopkins, MN
Posts: 3,560

Bikes: 17 Breezer Radar Pro; 15 Surly Pugsley; 13 Felt Z85; 11 Globe Daily; 09 Kona Dew Drop; 96 Mondonico

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 615 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Most of the racers on the ice had studs, most are riding stock studded tires. Lake ice can be challenging, and it was 0F on this day, so the ice was very hard. Everybody was messing with tire pressure to find something that would give you the most grip and get the max number of studs in contact with the ice at a time. I found it basically came down to, don't make any sudden movements, no hard braking, no hard accelerations.
I'm not sure if the Facebook link will work, but I have a coupe buddies that were out with a group ride on Lake Minnetonka yesterday, the whole lake is a skating rink, smooth ice and no snow.
edit, I can't post this as a link in BF, so if you're a FB user, try pasting this link into your browser
edit the edit, screw it, that doesn't even work. Is there a policy against FB on BF?
Hypno Toad is offline  
Old 01-14-19, 12:02 PM
  #13  
Craptacular8
Senior Member
 
Craptacular8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 496
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
@Hypno Toad what FB page were you trying to share?
Craptacular8 is offline  
Old 01-14-19, 12:40 PM
  #14  
Hypno Toad
meh
 
Hypno Toad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Hopkins, MN
Posts: 3,560

Bikes: 17 Breezer Radar Pro; 15 Surly Pugsley; 13 Felt Z85; 11 Globe Daily; 09 Kona Dew Drop; 96 Mondonico

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 615 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Craptacular8 View Post
@Hypno Toad what FB page were you trying to share?
Let's see if this works https:// www.facebook.com /colin.threinen /videos /10218032007090914/

I added spaces, since BF has not allowed any other option for this link ... I use links for YouTube videos all the time. Facebook is very different, it might be a Facebook issue, but I don't have a lot of time to dig into it today.
Hypno Toad is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.