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Living Car Free...The reality.

Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

Living Car Free...The reality.

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Old 09-19-18, 04:46 PM
  #101  
tandempower
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Originally Posted by badger1 View Post
No, let's not. More specifically, let's not take any advice from you. "We" don't need to follow anything you suggest, and it is highly unlikely that anything good would come of doing so.

Finally, no -- "we" do not need "to get over ourselves". If there is one person on this sub-forum who needs to get over him- or herself, and to "humble" him- or herself -- that is, demonstrate just a little less arrogance -- it is you.
Humble myself to what, the human prerogative to disregard and disrespect nature?
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Old 09-19-18, 04:52 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
That's not what I'm talking about and hopefully you understand that. If so, you're just being cheeky and if not, I probably can't explain it to you.
​​​​​​​So that's OK but playing with frisbees is not?
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Old 09-19-18, 05:20 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
There is a deeper problem, which is what happens when hordes of people show up with frisbees and balls and turn a park into a playground. Then there are the vendors and park managers who use them to turn the park into a business that generates more revenue. There is fundamental bias against having parks be nature sanctuaries where people can hike/bike, camp, and live in a more primitive, small-footprint, way because most people just don't want to be humbled by nature, i.e. because humility in the face of nature feels like humiliation to them.
This really doesn't reflect reality. Most park managers are folks who have dedicated their lives to the protection of these resources. Given their druthers they would likely restrict access even more, but they do have to balance that against the public's desire to see these wonderful lands that they collectively own. There are at times political pressures to reduce areas set aside as wilderness, but overall I think the history of the park service and other natural resource management agencies has not shown any bias on the part of managers against protection of these lands. People who go into this field generally do it as a labor of love and they don't deserve such spurious accusations.
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Old 09-19-18, 05:24 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Humble myself to what, the human prerogative to disregard and disrespect nature?
No. Think again, and have a nice evening.
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Old 09-19-18, 05:30 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
​​​​​​​So that's OK but playing with frisbees is not?
You argue technicalities like a lawyer. It's not about technicalities. It's about an overall attitude where people either fully respect nature or they just see it as a playground and don't want to be bothered with responsibility for properly stewarding the environment by limiting their behavior appropriately. When you ask about frisbees or whatever you sound like a kid in a library or classroom who is told to be quiet and then starts asking exactly what the threshold of noise is before they get in trouble. The point is that a library or classroom should be quiet so people can focus mentally and concentrate, just like the purpose of respecting nature is to allow other species and the overall ecology to function as it would without humans being present. If people are scaring animals with noise and trampling plants, etc. more humans means more abuse of nature. Don't you understand that?
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Old 09-19-18, 05:32 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
This really doesn't reflect reality. Most park managers are folks who have dedicated their lives to the protection of these resources. Given their druthers they would likely restrict access even more, but they do have to balance that against the public's desire to see these wonderful lands that they collectively own. There are at times political pressures to reduce areas set aside as wilderness, but overall I think the history of the park service and other natural resource management agencies has not shown any bias on the part of managers against protection of these lands. People who go into this field generally do it as a labor of love and they don't deserve such spurious accusations.
I'm sure there is favoritism for park managers who bend to political-economic will. How long can you keep your job if you keep saying no to things that would make the park more welcoming to visitors and bring in more revenue?
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Old 09-19-18, 05:33 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by badger1 View Post
No. Think again, and have a nice evening.
Don't badger me.
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Old 09-19-18, 07:02 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
I'm sure there is favoritism for park managers who bend to political-economic will. How long can you keep your job if you keep saying no to things that would make the park more welcoming to visitors and bring in more revenue?
And I'm sure there are people with little actual knowledge of the profession willing to sit in their armchairs and criticize the dedicated folks who are there doing the real work necessary to preserve our wild lands.
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Old 09-19-18, 08:09 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
So that's OK but playing with frisbees is not?
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Old 09-19-18, 08:28 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...that's not a fishing trip. It's something else, like a Doritos commercial or something.
Somebody has to bring the goodies...if you are that Ubermensch, bask in the glory.
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Old 09-19-18, 09:42 PM
  #111  
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Well, my family is currently "car free." One point, we meet a lot of other car free people, and we all feel very fortunate to be able to live this way, nobody is judging anybody for having cars. Cars are super useful. Well, actually, we judge our mountaineer and long distance cycler of a neighbor (and friend) who drives his SUV two blocks to the coffee shop because there's a drizzle in the forecast, but we mock him openly, so that makes it OK yeah?

Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
I have 4 car rental agencies nearby. For this trip I leave at 5am on Saturday and return home sometime late afternoon the following Sunday. That is outside of their normal business hours of operation.
I mostly jumped on here to note that our local rental agency would let you pick up the keys at closing on Friday, and would consider it returned on time as long as the keys were waiting in the office drop box Monday morning at 9am. Although we have paid for an extra day just to make logistics easier, still cheaper than owning a car.

Also, at least where we live, there are more cars than driving-age adults at almost every house in the neighborhood. If your neighbors are crunchy like ours, they feel guilty about this fact, and will gladly lend you their extra vehicle so it gets used. We fill up the tank, clean the windows, and bring them back something as a gift, except one neighbor who wants us to rent it for cash which is fine too.
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Old 09-19-18, 09:44 PM
  #112  
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Actually, I'm new here, is that even "car free"? We just don't own a car, but we borrow or rent one at least monthly.
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Old 09-19-18, 10:16 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
You argue technicalities like a lawyer.

Thank you!


And BTW - libraries are social areas now, not the silent places they once were.
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Old 09-19-18, 10:50 PM
  #114  
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...but we mock him openly, so that makes it OK yeah?
...any mocking worth doing is worth doing openly.
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Old 09-20-18, 12:31 AM
  #115  
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Sounds like someone doesn't understand ecosystems very well.

NP's are complicated ecosystems wherein park visitors and nature coexist through a lot of planning and intervention.
The strategy for this co existence is encapsulated mainly in the concept and creation of front country and back country zones. Development for mainstream human visitation occurs in the first while more strict rules that limit human impact occur in the second. The revenue generated from the first funds conservation in the second.
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Old 09-20-18, 02:35 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Sounds like someone doesn't understand ecosystems very well.

NP's are complicated ecosystems wherein park visitors and nature coexist through a lot of planning and intervention.
The strategy for this co existence is encapsulated mainly in the concept and creation of front country and back country zones. Development for mainstream human visitation occurs in the first while more strict rules that limit human impact occur in the second. The revenue generated from the first funds conservation in the second.
We understand that, and that's partly because we've spent time in NPs, and have learned some things about them, and have read some history and other information, etc., etc.



However, someone chooses not to do any of those things.
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Old 09-20-18, 04:54 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
And I'm sure there are people with little actual knowledge of the profession willing to sit in their armchairs and criticize the dedicated folks who are there doing the real work necessary to preserve our wild lands.
How many jobs do you know of where you can consistently say no money and popular opinion in the name of doing what's good or right without facing political pressure to change or leave? It's not just about parks and their employees. This is a general thing in all organizations.
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Old 09-20-18, 04:56 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
Thank you!


And BTW - libraries are social areas now, not the silent places they once were.
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Old 09-20-18, 05:03 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Nope!

https://www.smh.com.au/education/sil...305-1ueed.html
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Old 09-20-18, 07:11 AM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
You are another one ... though I must say, the strength of your African river could power many cities if it could be used for hydroelectric.
Can you quote an example of my fanaticism?
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Old 09-20-18, 07:50 AM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by woahdae View Post
Actually, I'm new here, is that even "car free"? We just don't own a car, but we borrow or rent one at least monthly.
That's been debated a lot here.
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Old 09-20-18, 10:02 AM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
This really doesn't reflect reality. Most park managers are folks who have dedicated their lives to the protection of these resources. Given their druthers they would likely restrict access even more, but they do have to balance that against the public's desire to see these wonderful lands that they collectively own. There are at times political pressures to reduce areas set aside as wilderness, but overall I think the history of the park service and other natural resource management agencies has not shown any bias on the part of managers against protection of these lands. People who go into this field generally do it as a labor of love and they don't deserve such spurious accusations.
I've done some bicycle touring in a few national parks and several national forests. During my times in those places I have talked with a fair number of rangers, campground hosts and other NPS and U.S.F.S. employees. What you wrote is accurate, especially the last sentence. I will never forget the time a ranger came patrolling through a campground in Glacier National Park while I was there during a tour. Two women had recently arrived, left a picnic basket on their picnic table and walked off. Right out of a Yogi cartoon. The ranger was pissed as hell because of the potential for bear interaction and what often becomes of bears once they get a taste of human food. Indeed, maybe 5 years ago a bear in Glacier was destroyed. It had broken into a car to get food that was visible inside a visitor's vehicle, which is against park rules. The bear was relocated but came back and broke into another car to get food that was again left out in the open. You could tell the person who wrote the report about the destruction was pissed as all get out at the visitors whose selfish behavior had left the NPS with no choice but to destroy the animal lest it be sued if someone was later injured or killed by it. A fed bear is a dead bear.

These people care deeply about what they do and the environments they work in. Anyone who thinks otherwise knows nothing of the subject.
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Old 09-20-18, 12:24 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
These people care deeply about what they do and the environments they work in. Anyone who thinks otherwise knows nothing of the subject.
I am sure they only protect bears because the bears have such a strong lobby. It's all politics.
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Old 09-20-18, 04:06 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I am sure they only protect bears because the bears have such a strong lobby. It's all politics.
now that is funny I donít care who you are.
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Old 09-20-18, 10:00 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I am sure they only protect bears because the bears have such a strong lobby. It's all politics.
According to the latest research most bears it turns out are socialists.
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