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Why scooters may be more popular than bikes

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Why scooters may be more popular than bikes

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Old 09-03-18, 08:39 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
You're right, "the general public" is too vague a term that could refer to too many different interest groups and corporate-consumer market trends. Specifically I am referring the fact that these dockless e-scooter shares seem to be the big news in lots of cities. There have also been dockless share-bikes and share e-bikes, but those don't seem to generate the vandalism and regulatory uproar that the scooters are getting. So while I haven't been to these cities to see what's going on first hand, I am doing the math, so to speak, and assuming that they are gaining popularity quickly, hence all the ensuing problems.

That leads to me questioning why e-scooters and not bicycles. As I said in the OP, I prefer pedaling to pushing a scooter and then waiting until my rolling speed slows down to give another push. I like shifting gears to maintain the same consistent pedaling effort while upping my speed. But I reflected on what might be better about (e)scooters and I explained my 'findings' in the OP. Now you are here debating about the premises and causing an unnecessarily tedious extra discussion within the thread instead of just accepting the premise that a lot of people seem to be more interested in dockless e-scooters than bikes, so the question is why that would be. Is it really that hard to stick the premise of the OP?
Assuming.

You could do some research to find out for sure ... then we could discuss a documented premise instead of an assumed one.
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Old 09-03-18, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
Assuming.

You could do some research to find out for sure ... then we could discuss a documented premise instead of an assumed one.
I just explained how I did research. I used the media discourse as an indication of what's going on, and then if it's all fake news and thus a total hoax, then the discussion is all moot. If it's not, then the media coverage can be taken to indicate what is going on. There is no data out there that's not filtered through the media. I'm not going to visit any of the cities in question and spend time observing e-scooter use, so I have to go by what the media is conveying.
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Old 09-03-18, 10:50 AM
  #28  
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More "media coverage". WARNING -not written by a start-up PR hack for posting on click bait sites read by gullible dreamers:
Rentals of dockless bikes not good idea

And from a few months ago:
http://www2.philly.com/philly/news/n...-20180720.html
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Old 09-03-18, 11:15 AM
  #29  
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One reason why Silicon Valley entrepreneurs promote rental scooter "popularity" has nothing to do with transportation, let alone "LCF" and is all about monetizing users' personal data.
https://www.fastcompany.com/90208689...vacy-nightmare
https://www.aclunc.org/blog/electric...lect-your-data
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Old 09-03-18, 12:17 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Scooters are just toys for little kids and they're not even all that popular amongst kids, I only see kids on them occasionally. How do you do shopping and carry a bunch of groceries on a scooter, how practical would it be to commute 15 miles per day to work on a scooter ??....at least with a bicycle you can attach racks/panniers and carry things...Scooters are just toys for goofing around, I just don't see them as an alternative form of transportation.
You are forgetting last mile. Don't get hung up on that word "mile" like some here do. When I say "last mile" I am speaking of the distance between home and the metro, and between the metro and work. I agree that few would try a 15 mile commute on a scooter; but one mile to the metro, and then maybe another mile from the metro to work, that is a lot easier to invision.

I know some here will say (and have said) "a mile! I'd just walk that!". Great for that person! That person probably isn't the intended market. Some will say that a bike is a better choice for the use I just described, I would generally agree; except that some systems limit the number of bikes allowed. That number seems to be hit long before the light rail gets to everyone's stop (add to that weird things like the metro police kicking the bikes off in order to make room for wheel-chairs; that problem seems to be fixed now, one of the people to get booted one morning was a judge).

No, the scooters will not replace bicycles for the determined cyclist, that is absurd to expect. However, they might make the metro a bit more palatable to a person who normally drives.
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Old 09-03-18, 02:55 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Robert C View Post
You are forgetting last mile.
[SKIP]
No, the scooters will not replace bicycles for the determined cyclist, that is absurd to expect. However, they might make the metro a bit more palatable to a person who normally drives.
No not forgetting at all the OP's over-the-top/outside-the-box critical thought that rental scooter use will enable some LCF wannabes to replace their motorized vehicles for "last mile" use and thus save hundreds of $$/month.
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Old 09-03-18, 03:55 PM
  #32  
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Dockless e-scooter sharing seems to me to just basically be like installing those moving sidewalks at airports throughout an area, without having to actually build the moving sidewalks. I am a person who will choose to walk instead of standing on a moving sidewalk because I relish the opportunity to move my legs after or before sitting on a plane, but many people just love standing on those things and being moved by them, literally and figuratively.

They don't need to be useful for carrying cargo because people can get ride-shares and deliveries when they do shopping. If most people learn to use them when it's convenient instead of going by car, it will relieve a lot of traffic congestion pressure.
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Old 09-03-18, 06:37 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Got any pictures of fat people riding scooters?

Or pictures of many scooter customers of any size or shape for that matter that isn't along the beachfront or a staged shot for social media? IOW, going someplace other than just for a lark in the park?
You need go no further than you neighborhood Walmart or even supermarket to see this in real life. I don't exaggerate.
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Old 09-03-18, 07:59 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
You need go no further than you neighborhood Walmart or even supermarket to see this in real life. I don't exaggerate.
You obviously don't have clue about what kind of scooters are being discussed; or you exaggerate bigtime.
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Old 09-03-18, 08:11 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
You need go no further than you neighborhood Walmart or even supermarket to see this in real life. I don't exaggerate.

I think you're thinking of mobility scooters which is different from the kind of scooter tp is talking about.
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Old 09-03-18, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
I think you're thinking of mobility scooters which is different from the kind of scooter tp is talking about.
I am completely aware of the type of scooter the OP is talking about. I live in LA. My responses examine the bigger picture -- a lackadaisical society (see my previous posts). I was supporting my statement with additional examples of lethargy.
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Old 09-04-18, 05:24 AM
  #37  
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The other guy is Always wrong. Even I were wrong---which could never happen---the other guy would be More wrong.

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Old 11-10-18, 04:32 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
There is almost zero quantitative evidence about the alleged popularity of so-called "dockless share vehicles" or shared scooters. Just a lot of breathless click bait chatter about how much money has been raised by the start-ups flooding city streets with the latest and greatest "thing" that will change the world.

The reason for the "all the news about dockless sharing of e-scooters" is that the techie writers for click bait media sites have tired of reporting about the imminent arrival of ready-for-prime-time self-driving cars; next month it will be something else that draws the gullible moths to the flame.
I don't know...

Two companies (lime and bird) put in scooters in downtown Lansing just a couple months ago. Those things are flying around all over the city now! First snowfall was tonight, so it will be interesting to see if the popularity dies down because of the weather. Also, I'm sure there's some novelty effect which could wear off after a while.

But it's easy to see the appeal of these scooters. They're cheap, easy to operate, quite convenient, and above all, FUN!!! You jump on, get going faster than most people can ride a bike, and you just leave them at the curb when you arrive at your destination.
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Old 11-10-18, 07:13 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
I don't know...

Two companies (lime and bird) put in scooters in downtown Lansing just a couple months ago. Those things are flying around all over the city now! First snowfall was tonight, so it will be interesting to see if the popularity dies down because of the weather. Also, I'm sure there's some novelty effect which could wear off after a while.

But it's easy to see the appeal of these scooters. They're cheap, easy to operate, quite convenient, and above all, FUN!!! You jump on, get going faster than most people can ride a bike, and you just leave them at the curb when you arrive at your destination.
I wonder if scooters with big tires like this will be converted to snow tires for winter use?
https://www.designboom.com/technolog...ng-11-17-2018/
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Old 11-10-18, 07:32 AM
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I understand your point, but scooters will never be more popular than bikes man
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Old 11-10-18, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
The answer is so simple, but some people are simply unwilling to imagine a world ... that actually exists.

PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO PEDAL.
I also want to add that people don't want to use a non electric kick scooter also! I use a regular kick scooter but I'm in the minority since only teens and children are seen with them. Overall, it looks like a lot of fun and I can see why people are using them. This is getting ready to explode in major cities as investment capital money is funding these small companies.

Someone did the math in one newspaper and an electric scooter can pay itself off in several months so there is a profit down the road.
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Old 11-10-18, 08:08 AM
  #42  
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To keep this good topic in line, I think the electric kick scooter is certainly another tool the carfree can use to get around in cities. I'm getting ready to use my non-electric kick scooter for work and it always saves money and time. For those using one for multi-mode transportation, it's actually better than a bike since I can bring one inside the cabin of bus if there's no bike rack installed. Also, it's much easier to bring inside a subway car and no need to lock one outside.
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Old 11-11-18, 09:22 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
Someone did the math in one newspaper and an electric scooter can pay itself off in several months so there is a profit down the road.
There are a large enough number of potential variables in the equation that I'm not at all sure I believe such math is necessarily accurate. They may be profitable in a few markets, but I'm very skeptical that such enterprises will prove economically viable on a larger scale.
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Old 11-11-18, 10:17 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
There are a large enough number of potential variables in the equation that I'm not at all sure I believe such math is necessarily accurate. They may be profitable in a few markets, but I'm very skeptical that such enterprises will prove economically viable on a larger scale.
They are profitable to users by lowering their cost of transportation. They are profitable to tax payers by lowering the cost of infrastructure. How much should the users have to pay for the privilege of transporting themselves on simple machines that use almost no pavement?

Let's flesh out this issue of making money a little by creating a blatantly obvious example: Consider two office buildings across the street from one another. One building houses an automotive industry, such as parts, insurance, tools, etc. Across the street, the building houses the scooter and bike share industry. People who work in the automotive office make a lot of money because their parts, insurance, and tools cost loads of money. The scooters and bikes make less because they have less parts, don't require insurance, and there are less expensive tools needed. So basically what you're saying is that unless the scooters and bikes can find a way to make their products much less cost-efficient, investors will abandon them in favor of the automotive businesses that milk a lot more money out of their users. Do you not see the travesty in that scenario?

Last edited by tandempower; 11-11-18 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 11-11-18, 11:51 AM
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Nope

Originally Posted by Machka View Post
They sure aren't popular here!
Here Neither, some Skateboards yes, One person has been using an Xooter, or Razor kick Scooter..

Electric dockless stay in the Tech cities with lots of IT workers to Abuse them..

Faces up from your Screens, Kids !
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Old 11-11-18, 11:53 AM
  #46  
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- A lot of people fear bicycle riding. Not the traffic, just the ACT of riding one. My wife, for instance. She is an expert inline speed skater happy to do 25mph with "no" brakes. Go figure.

- Most novice cyclists have memories of the saddle killing their arses. Sore bottoms is the #1 reason those who tried and failed to become cyclists. Scooters - no problem.

- Scooters are closer to the ground. Shorter distance to fall for those afraid of heights.

- Many people want their feet close to the ground. Like an Electra Townie sort of. Many people want to be able to touch the ground flat-footed when they stop. As we all know, that position is very inefficient for pedaling AND puts all of their weight on their tookus. See "killing their arses" above.

- Scooters are "child's play" to ride. And they are fun. Scooters do not LOOK dangerous, like a bike, to some people.

- Many people hate cyclists and do not want to be one.

- Never underestimate the laziness of people. It's the MOTOR they desire. And the novelty.

- Walking sucks. I would prefer to ride than walk. OH...there's a motorized scooter! My feet hurt. Gimme that.

^^ IMO
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Old 11-11-18, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
How much should the users have to pay for the privilege of transporting themselves on simple machines that use almost no pavement?
If the service is to be viable, they have to pay whatever it costs to cover the investment, maintenance, and operational costs for the fleet. And the fleet has to include a lot of units not in use at any given time. From what I've seen, it appears to me that rate is going to have to end up being higher than the market will bear. It may work in a few markets, but I don't see it working in most cities. Of course, I could be wrong. Time will tell.
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Old 11-11-18, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
-

. Scooters do not LOOK dangerous, like a bike, to some people.
They look more dangerous to me. Tiny wheels don't handle obstructions very well.
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Old 11-11-18, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
They look more dangerous to me. Tiny wheels don't handle obstructions very well.
Notice I said "To some people". You understand physics and leverage apparently. Science. Many in the USA do not understand, nor choose to believe science. Leverage around a rotational sphere is apparent to you and I, and almost any cyclist who has gone over the handlebars. Also, 29er wheels have overtaken 26" wheels. Larger wheels make the bumps smaller! And visa-versa.
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Old 11-11-18, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
If the service is to be viable, they have to pay whatever it costs to cover the investment, maintenance, and operational costs for the fleet. And the fleet has to include a lot of units not in use at any given time. From what I've seen, it appears to me that rate is going to have to end up being higher than the market will bear. It may work in a few markets, but I don't see it working in most cities. Of course, I could be wrong. Time will tell.
From what I've read, the cities that have allowed sharing have done so under the condition that the companies pay several hundred dollars per year to register them. That makes it a lot more expensive to have large numbers of vehicles available. If the cost is mass production of the units only, then lots of scooters can be parked around the city and it wouldn't take many users to cover the production costs. If each deployed scooter has to pay $100s in taxes/fees per year, though, that ups the ante for how many users are needed to keep the system adequately funded.
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