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Why scooters may be more popular than bikes

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Why scooters may be more popular than bikes

Old 12-15-18, 10:34 AM
  #126  
tandempower
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
There is absolutely no reason to believe this is true.
You don't think people in local government are responsive to all the business people who make their money off ubiquitous car ownership, including mechanics, tire/wheel shops, car dealerships, insurance agents, and gas stations? You don't think those businesses and their subsidiaries are interested in restricting and suppressing bike/scooter sharing from giving people an alternative to buying/maintaining/insuring/fueling a car?

Somehow transportation biking has been put in its place, so they're not worried about more than a select minority of people getting around by bike. This is because people don't want to buy expensive bikes and leave them locked at a transit stop, so bike/scooter shares make it a lot more convenient to combine transit and bikes/scooters, so that is as much of a threat as ride-sharing was, and so there is logically a similar level of resistance to it.

The automotive culture only resists alternatives until they are established as minoritarian. People are willing to tolerate some people biking for transportation or using scooters as long as they can be dismissed as fringe divergents, which allows them to be used as cultural deterrents, e.g. tell your kids that if they don't drive cars they'll end up like the bums who bike around instead of driving. But whenever some form of alternative transportation looks like it could actually grow into something viable for a large segment of the population, the culture police step in a start ridiculing and attacking the new transportation form in every way possible, from vandalism to regulation. It's all for the sake of protecting established business patterns.

They don't care about the environmental future, only the economic status quo.
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Old 12-15-18, 11:01 AM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
You don't think people in local government are responsive to all the business people who make their money off ubiquitous car ownership, including mechanics, tire/wheel shops, car dealerships, insurance agents, and gas stations? You don't think those businesses and their subsidiaries are interested in restricting and suppressing bike/scooter sharing from giving people an alternative to buying/maintaining/insuring/fueling a car?
No, I don't think that's true.

First of all, there's no reason to think they care or would be concerned about this. We've had a couple of years to observe these short tern rental 'businesses' and the few that are even moderately successful still require some form of subsidization. Nothing on the horizon indicates that this may change. The whole concept of the "last mile" solution may be a solution in search of a problem. Unless such rentals significantly increased the number of people taking alternative transportation to reach that last mile, bike and scooter rentals are not going to have any appreciable impact on auto traffic. Billions would need to be invested to improve train and bus services in order to get people to that last mile and even if that were done we have no evidence nor really any reason to believe many commuters would choose to ride a scooter for that last mile.

Secondly, although business certainly has influence on government, the kind of shadowy conspiracies you are hypothesizing would require the agreement of too many people who can never agree on anything. To forge consensus and then keep the whole conspiracy hidden from view would be an impossible task given the vagaries of human nature.
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Old 12-15-18, 12:06 PM
  #128  
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Bottom Line:

Not much point trying to have a rational discussion with anyone obsessed with his own theories of devilish conspiracies driving any disagreement with the viability of his favorite schemes.

The only response is more conspiracy theory and P&R ranting.
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Old 12-15-18, 12:19 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
The whole concept of the "last mile" solution may be a solution in search of a problem.
Traffic congestion has been a known problem for decades, if not since the inception of the automobile as mass transit. If public transportation is not the solution, what is? Ever more lanes and highways? If you can acknowledge, rationally, that public transit is necessary to consolidate traffic into multi-passenger vehicles, then you have the problem of making transit routes efficient by limiting the number of stops and detours. That means people have to go some distance to a transit stop and not expect transit to weave around through the city and stop at every block. That is the reason for the last-mile problem.

Now, there is another problem which is getting people to admit sprawl and congestion are problems instead of denying it. That's a harder problem because it goes to the very core of the issue of humans either admitting the truth or fighting to deny it in order to avoid change. That is a bigger problem that can't be solved except by dismissing false premises like the idea that ever-more lanes and highways can eliminate the need to consolidate traffic into multi-passenger public transit routes.

Unless such rentals significantly increased the number of people taking alternative transportation to reach that last mile, bike and scooter rentals are not going to have any appreciable impact on auto traffic. Billions would need to be invested to improve train and bus services in order to get people to that last mile and even if that were done we have no evidence nor really any reason to believe many commuters would choose to ride a scooter for that last mile.
No one says you have to use share bikes/scooters in conjunction with transit. I am a person who would ride a share bike/scooter many miles if I had the time rather than combining it with transit, but some people prefer to sit and read, so there are buses and rail vehicles for them. Also, if you have to go more than a few miles, it helps to have some kind of train or bus that can go 40mph or more over a longer distance.

Secondly, although business certainly has influence on government, the kind of shadowy conspiracies you are hypothesizing would require the agreement of too many people who can never agree on anything. To forge consensus and then keep the whole conspiracy hidden from view would be an impossible task given the vagaries of human nature.
It's an open conspiracy. It's just politics. If/when people react to a market offering from the POV of it killing jobs/business instead of embracing it as a more affordable alternative to something else, that is all it takes to motivate disruptive/obstructive resistance against the new technology. People don't just stand by and let more affordable technologies replace more expensive ones, i.e. because they expect to get more money from the sales of the more expensive ones than misery from them.
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Old 12-15-18, 01:49 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
You don't think people in local government are responsive to all the business people who make their money off ubiquitous car ownership, including mechanics, tire/wheel shops, car dealerships, insurance agents, and gas stations? You don't think those businesses and their subsidiaries are interested in restricting and suppressing bike/scooter sharing from giving people an alternative to buying/maintaining/insuring/fueling a car?

Somehow transportation biking has been put in its place, so they're not worried about more than a select minority of people getting around by bike. This is because people don't want to buy expensive bikes and leave them locked at a transit stop, so bike/scooter shares make it a lot more convenient to combine transit and bikes/scooters, so that is as much of a threat as ride-sharing was, and so there is logically a similar level of resistance to it.

The automotive culture only resists alternatives until they are established as minoritarian. People are willing to tolerate some people biking for transportation or using scooters as long as they can be dismissed as fringe divergents, which allows them to be used as cultural deterrents, e.g. tell your kids that if they don't drive cars they'll end up like the bums who bike around instead of driving. But whenever some form of alternative transportation looks like it could actually grow into something viable for a large segment of the population, the culture police step in a start ridiculing and attacking the new transportation form in every way possible, from vandalism to regulation. It's all for the sake of protecting established business patterns.

They don't care about the environmental future, only the economic status quo.
I am not sure you know how a Democratic society works. I am not sure you know how to stay on track in a thread.

Society is made up by numbers of people agreeing to live with certain rules. Those rules can be changed whan a majority of the people agree to change them. We donít live in a theocracy or monarchy or dictatorship. And to date it has not been demonstrated that rejecting electric scooters is a moral issue. It is not be shown to be a conspiracy or a political plot.

There is very little chance that one poster on an obscure bike forum is better informed than 9 out of 10 of their fellow men. That would indicate society has as much chance of deciding on the proper form of transportation as the individual does. There is even less chance that loner is a moral authority. So any moral appeal can be ignored.

the subject is scooters becoming more popular than bikes. If there were just some way the debate could be redirected to the evidence related to the subject introduced in the first place and not some same old tired ramblings about how humanity has lost its way. P&R is able to address that.
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Old 12-15-18, 01:57 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
There is very little chance that one poster on an obscure bike forum is better informed than 9 out of 10 of their fellow men. That would indicate society has as much chance of deciding on the proper form of transportation as the individual does. There is even less chance that loner is a moral authority. So any moral appeal can be ignored.
You're just not capable of understanding that things go beyond the people that think/talk about them. Sprawl and congestion are inevitable problems of everyone driving and parking cars and trucks wherever they go. That has been a problem since before the vast majority of people alive today were born. It is a physical/geographical problem. Not one that can be wished away by the human mind, whether it is part of a majoritarian culture or not.
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Old 12-15-18, 02:16 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
You're just not capable of understanding that things go beyond the people that think/talk about them. Sprawl and congestion are inevitable problems of everyone driving and parking cars and trucks wherever they go. That has been a problem since before the vast majority of people alive today were born. It is a physical/geographical problem. Not one that can be wished away by the human mind, whether it is part of a majoritarian culture or not.
i understand you keep moving the subject away from scooters and their popularity or lack there of.

There are forums better suited to environmental concerns. There are greater problems than those you see in cars. Population, food supply, lack of water, war, disease, earthquakes and a giant volcano at Yellowstone that is past due. That has nothing to do with scooters either.
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Old 12-15-18, 03:14 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
[Over]Population, food supply, lack of water, war, disease, earthquakes and a giant volcano at Yellowstone that is past due. That has nothing to do with scooters either.
Doncha know that those problems and this thread has everything to do with the so-called automotivists' conspiracy with the pavement pouring, tree cutting villains of the "majoritarian culture" inflicting their dreaded sprawl on the twee-ish lambs of the imaginary "LCF movement."
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Old 12-15-18, 03:45 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Doncha know that those problems and this thread has everything to do with the so-called automotivists' conspiracy with the pavement pouring, tree cutting villains of the "majoritarian culture" inflicting their dreaded sprawl on the twee-ish lambs of the imaginary "LCF movement."
I should know better. I used to deal with people that had ADHD ADD and even autism.
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Old 12-15-18, 07:46 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
i understand you keep moving the subject away from scooters and their popularity or lack there of.
I started the thread because I noticed an upsurge in scooter share popularity relative to bike share popularity. It occurred to me that there might be many people who prefer scooters to bikes as car-free transportation. The thread was only meant to compare scooters to bikes in terms of popularity as car-free vehicles for people who aren't already avid transportation cyclists, like some of us in this subforum of BIKEforums are.
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Old 12-15-18, 08:24 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
I started the thread because I noticed an upsurge in scooter share popularity relative to bike share popularity. It occurred to me that there might be many people who prefer scooters to bikes as car-free transportation. The thread was only meant to compare scooters to bikes in terms of popularity as car-free vehicles for people who aren't already avid transportation cyclists, like some of us in this subforum of BIKEforums are.
And evidence either for or against the speculation would be valid topics of debate. Statistics, studies, and community reaction can be used to validate a contention that they are or are not gaining on bicycles. None of that includes an assumption that most of society is blinded by a grand conspiracy foisted on them by automotive interests, the government and any other fly by night conspiracy someone can dream up.

Links us have been posted that challenge the assumption that scooters are the next salvation of mankind. Nothing has been posted to contradict the assertion that the scooters are causing problems. There is no reason to assume people that resist scooters are somehow less aware of their reasoning than someone that supports dumping the things all over our public streets.

Some me people like cake and others like pie. It doesnít have to become a social or political battle if one is more popular than the other.
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Old 12-16-18, 11:45 AM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
And evidence either for or against the speculation would be valid topics of debate. Statistics, studies, and community reaction can be used to validate a contention that they are or are not gaining on bicycles.

Obviously the scooter shares were gaining popularity faster than bike shares were. Idk if that's because of Lyme and Bird investing in providing them in ample numbers and charging transit-fee pricing or because people just prefer standing and not pedaling to sitting and pedaling. Anyway, the moment you bring statistics and community reactions, etc. into it, the results are going to be biased by business interests that want to influence the study results, so there's really no point bothering with that sort of thing, not that statistics and community meetings really reflect anything about people's true thoughts and intentions at the individual level anyway.

None of that includes an assumption that most of society is blinded by a grand conspiracy foisted on them by automotive interests, the government and any other fly by night conspiracy someone can dream up.
That's a given. You can't have 100 years worth of automotive culture growth at the scale that has happened without it having culture-bending effects. The conspiracy of the majority is that the individual bends to the will of the majority. It's only a conspiracy to the extent it becomes so taken-for-granted that people stop thinking about it and questioning it consciously.

Links us have been posted that challenge the assumption that scooters are the next salvation of mankind. Nothing has been posted to contradict the assertion that the scooters are causing problems. There is no reason to assume people that resist scooters are somehow less aware of their reasoning than someone that supports dumping the things all over our public streets.
They're just biased in favor of driving because that is the established norm and because it gives them a little climate-controlled room to sit in while they commute. People have already relativist the drawbacks of commuting so most aren't going to jump into an experiment with alternative transportation, even if it offers them the prospect of improving congestion and sprawl overall in the long run. That is why so much time is needed to establish small-vehicle sharing as a viable and reliable alternative to driving.

Some me people like cake and others like pie. It doesnít have to become a social or political battle if one is more popular than the other.
It's not that equal of a comparison and you know it.
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Old 12-16-18, 03:05 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Obviously the scooter shares were gaining popularity faster than bike shares were. Idk if that's because of Lyme and Bird investing in providing them in ample numbers and charging transit-fee pricing or because people just prefer standing and not pedaling to sitting and pedaling. Anyway, the moment you bring statistics and community reactions, etc. into it, the results are going to be biased by business interests that want to influence the study results, so there's really no point bothering with that sort of thing, not that statistics and community meetings really reflect anything about people's true thoughts and intentions at the individual level anyway.



That's a given. You can't have 100 years worth of automotive culture growth at the scale that has happened without it having culture-bending effects. The conspiracy of the majority is that the individual bends to the will of the majority. It's only a conspiracy to the extent it becomes so taken-for-granted that people stop thinking about it and questioning it consciously.



They're just biased in favor of driving because that is the established norm and because it gives them a little climate-controlled room to sit in while they commute. People have already relativist the drawbacks of commuting so most aren't going to jump into an experiment with alternative transportation, even if it offers them the prospect of improving congestion and sprawl overall in the long run. That is why so much time is needed to establish small-vehicle sharing as a viable and reliable alternative to driving.



It's not that equal of a comparison and you know it.

Here is what I get from your post.


1. Some venture capitalists have dumped several hundreds or maybe thousands of E-scooters into towns and counties were they haven't been requested. No scooter stores or scooters shops have been showing up in your town or my town and there are no numbers that have been posted showing the public is more interested in E-scooters but you and you alone see that as a sign they are gaining. Your analysis alone. "Idk if that's because of Lyme and Bird investing in providing them in ample numbers and charging transit-fee pricing or because people just prefer standing and not pedaling to sitting and pedaling"

2.
People that are trained on the study of these things can't be trusted nor can people affected by the addition of these scooters into their community because they aren't clear headed about the subject. In other words researchers and normal people are not a good source of information? "Anyway, the moment you bring statistics and community reactions, etc. into it, the results are going to be biased by business interests that want to influence the study results, so there's really no point bothering with that sort of thing, not that statistics and community meetings really reflect anything about people's true thoughts and intentions at the individual level anyway."

3. No matter how many years before the automobile people may have used other forms of transportation or even spread out into suburbs those old non automotive norms didn't have to be overcome? "You can't have 100 years worth of automotive culture growth at the scale that has happened without it having culture-bending effects. The conspiracy of the majority is that the individual bends to the will of the majority. It's only a conspiracy to the extent it becomes so taken-for-granted that people stop thinking about it and questioning it consciously."

4. So we are to reject the wants and desires of our fellow citizens because they cannot reason for themselves? We should not trust people that actually look into what people want and why because they are part of the conspiracy? But we should listen to an anti social loner as stated by the person, that lives alone and an old house in Florida as someone that knows how we as a society think and what is best for us? How did a transportation choice become the norm? Were people forced into it? "They're just biased in favor of driving because that is the established norm and because it gives them a little climate-controlled room to sit in while they commute. People have already relativist the drawbacks of commuting so most aren't going to jump into an experiment with alternative transportation, even if it offers them the prospect of improving congestion and sprawl overall in the long run. That is why so much time is needed to establish small-vehicle sharing as a viable and reliable alternative to driving."


This simply doesn't sound reasonable to me somehow.

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Old 12-16-18, 08:32 PM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
No, I don't think that's true.

First of all, there's no reason to think they care or would be concerned about this. We've had a couple of years to observe these short tern rental 'businesses' and the few that are even moderately successful still require some form of subsidization. Nothing on the horizon indicates that this may change. The whole concept of the "last mile" solution may be a solution in search of a problem. Unless such rentals significantly increased the number of people taking alternative transportation to reach that last mile, bike and scooter rentals are not going to have any appreciable impact on auto traffic.
The scooter companies are using investor capital money to operate and like Uber, most are losing money. However, the challenge today is developing an electric scooter built heavy duty for commercial purposes with long battery life. The current ones in use are prone to breakage which is why the business model does not work.

The last mile is a real issue in cities where you'll ONLY find electric scooters. Those living the burbs will simply have to watch because the electric scooter will never reach them.

On a different subject, I was thinking how the success of electric scooters opened the eyes of thousands (of adults) on how useful they can be. I've know for YEARS the benefit of regular kick scooters regarding last mile transport. We can only hope the electric kick scooter will increase the number of adults using non-electric kick scooters.
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Old 12-16-18, 11:02 PM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
The scooter companies are using investor capital money to operate and like Uber, most are losing money. However, the challenge today is developing an electric scooter built heavy duty for commercial purposes with long battery life. The current ones in use are prone to breakage which is why the business model does not work.

The last mile is a real issue in cities where you'll ONLY find electric scooters. Those living the burbs will simply have to watch because the electric scooter will never reach them.

On a different subject, I was thinking how the success of electric scooters opened the eyes of thousands (of adults) on how useful they can be. I've know for YEARS the benefit of regular kick scooters regarding last mile transport. We can only hope the electric kick scooter will increase the number of adults using non-electric kick scooters.
isnít the advantage supposed to be cost? At a buck to unlock and 15 cents a minute to ride isnít that about 4 backs a day? That is assuming you are only covering a mile in 3 or 4 minutes? Most people work 288 or more days a year. That is more than a $1000.00 a year. The scooters can be bought from Amazon for between $250.00 and $700.00. They can be folded up and carried on a bus or into work.

The added benefit is they will not be tossed on the ground just wherever they stop so the city has to come by and remove them.
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Old 12-17-18, 01:48 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
You're just not capable of understanding....
Trying to win over hearts and minds I see
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Old 12-17-18, 02:01 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
I guarantee you that the people in local governments where these scooter/bike shares are being suppressed are at some level in cahoots with local and translocal automotive interests. What I find so fascinating about it all is to see how vulnerable governmental authority is to suppression of liberty in favor of economic control.
Wow a tandempower guarantee! You "guarantee" truths you obviously know nothing specific about and just assume it happens "on some level". Jeez The smudge of tp intellect I see continues to ooze at bf.
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Old 12-17-18, 05:25 PM
  #143  
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They have become to popular. People do seem to be aware thankfully, but in big cities people are all over the place on these. Especially in the warmer months. You could get plowed quite easily if someone is not paying attention.

Let me get out of here, I get a headache in this sub forum.
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Old 12-17-18, 05:44 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post


isnít the advantage supposed to be cost? At a buck to unlock and 15 cents a minute to ride isnít that about 4 backs a day? That is assuming you are only covering a mile in 3 or 4 minutes? Most people work 288 or more days a year. That is more than a $1000.00 a year. The scooters can be bought from Amazon for between $250.00 and $700.00. They can be folded up and carried on a bus or into work.

The added benefit is they will not be tossed on the ground just wherever they stop so the city has to come by and remove them.
That is a good point. The bigger picture, however, is that people need to be stimulated to think creatively about going outside the box of buying and driving cars. A scooter might be portable enough that you can carry it on a bus or train, but a bicycle is typically too big for more than two per bus. So bike shares definitely make more sense than everyone hoping they get one of the two possible bike-rack spots on the bus. But then for some reason scooter shares have become more popular than bike shares, maybe as an attack on bike shares, idk.

Whatever the case, it is good to have a broad range of option so that people will begin to realize there are viable options besides driving. That way when they are dealing with the issue of climate reforms, economic reforms, personal geographical issues of where to live and work, etc. they won't plan their lives around the assumption of car-ownership and driving.
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Old 12-17-18, 09:46 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
. So bike shares definitely make more sense than everyone hoping they get one of the two possible bike-rack spots on the bus. But then for some reason scooter shares have become more popular than bike shares, maybe as an attack on bike shares, idk.
I don't know if scooter rentals really are more popular. They're getting a ton of of press right now, but I haven't seen evidence that they're actually very popular. Indeed, a lot of the problems seem to come from supply greatly exceeding demand. From what I've read, the few places where scooters are seeing much demand it seems to be largely recreational. Time will tell whether either actually prove to be popular enough to be viable, but I suspect bikes have a better chance in the commuter market. If scooters are more than a fad, their future may be more in the leisure market.
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Old 12-18-18, 03:50 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
I don't know if scooter rentals really are more popular. They're getting a ton of of press right now, but I haven't seen evidence that they're actually very popular. Indeed, a lot of the problems seem to come from supply greatly exceeding demand. From what I've read, the few places where scooters are seeing much demand it seems to be largely recreational. Time will tell whether either actually prove to be popular enough to be viable, but I suspect bikes have a better chance in the commuter market. If scooters are more than a fad, their future may be more in the leisure market.
From a totally utilitarian POV, e-scooters are the smallest electric vehicle possible. In terms of lane space and parking space, they have the smallest-possible footprint of any vehicle that can carry a human adult besides roller skates.

So if humans really want to have motorized transportation, it makes sense to have something closer to an escooter than a car, unless they want to take multi-passenger vehicles as public transit, carpooling, ride-sharing, etc. The most irrational transportation choice is to drive the largest-possible vehicle with the least number of people in it; e.g. everyone driving around in SUVs or even larger vehicles. That irrationality/waste scenario is the best possible outcome for business and growth, because more spending on larger vehicles per capita results in more steel purchased, more fuel, more paving, etc. etc.

More of everything per capita amounts to more work and spending per capita, which amounts to more economic activity, growth, and jobs. It is the terrible irrationality of the business-growth orientation, but too many people subscribe to it over the more sane values of efficiency, sustainability, and environmental impact reduction.

So escooters are the smallest-possible electric vehicle, but larger version, more like mopeds, could gain popularity instead, even covered-mopeds. Bicycles are really the most efficient sit-down vehicle, i.e. because they are human-powered and humans want to get as much speed out of their pedaling as possible, but there's no reason everyone needs to drive around in a big 4-wheeled motorized car, even if it's just a sub-compact; because even sub-compacts require a lot more pavement for driving and parking than a bicycle or scooter.
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Old 12-18-18, 10:20 PM
  #147  
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Taking a look at the slant of this thread there are some obvious questions.
1. Scooters do not have the range or capacity of a bicycle.
2. Some are suggesting they are an answer to the last mile question.
a. The last mile applies to people already using mass transit or that live within a mile of where they want to be.
b. If they had an impact on the last mile they would impact walking and cycling.
c. Car owners are not concerned with last mile problems.
3. Bicycles have gained some acceptance for commuting to work but they are still less popular than walking, mass transit and working from home.
4. Scooters are not even on the list of ways people commute to work.
5. Scooters aren't part of the equation to commuting by car so they would have little or any impact on car ownership due to last mile concerns.
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Old 12-19-18, 06:45 AM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
a. The last mile applies to people already using mass transit or that live within a mile of where they want to be.
The last mile problem applies to the prospect of expanding mass transit ridership and thus increasing the reach of mass transit lines. If more people are willing to use it, it can be expanded and more people will be able to go more places using it.

I suspect you are one of the people who wants to limit the reach of mass transit because you see it as posing a threat of bringing urban density into areas that don't want such density. If so, you should consider other possibilities for preventing density in those places besides averting accessibility by mass transit.

c. Car owners are not concerned with last mile problems.
Car ownership is not a realistic option for everyone. Too many people have been overreaching their economic means for too long by driving because of the inadequacy they perceive in LCF lifestyles available to them.
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Old 12-19-18, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
The last mile problem applies to the prospect of expanding mass transit ridership and thus increasing the reach of mass transit lines. If more people are willing to use it, it can be expanded and more people will be able to go more places using it.

I suspect you are one of the people who wants to limit the reach of mass transit because you see it as posing a threat of bringing urban density into areas that don't want such density. If so, you should consider other possibilities for preventing density in those places besides averting accessibility by mass transit.


Car ownership is not a realistic option for everyone. Too many people have been overreaching their economic means for too long by driving because of the inadequacy they perceive in LCF lifestyles available to them.
Is there some trends posted by any study group that shows car owners getting rid of their cars for scooters? I donít think so. I donít believe you can connect scooters to mass transit in reality. But for a simple raw data standpoint I donít think you can show a big change in how people commute in the last 10 years.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.bus...ork-us-2017-10

Last edited by Mobile 155; 12-19-18 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 12-19-18, 01:24 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
[left]

Is there some trends posted by any study group that shows car owners getting rid of their cars for scooters? I don’t think so.
Unlikely that a credible study would show any measurable reduction in miles driven by car owning scooter riders; perhaps they might reduce by a few miles those taken by taxi and other (so-called) ride share rental vehicles or public transit.
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