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Knees in relation to top tube?

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Knees in relation to top tube?

Old 11-25-18, 08:07 AM
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Tandem Tom
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Knees in relation to top tube?

The other day as I was riding I notice that my left knee,at the top of the pedal stroke, is closer to the top tube than the right knee. My cleats are in the same position on both shoes. Would angling the side dlighsli be appropriate?

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Old 11-26-18, 06:48 AM
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"dlighsli" ??
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Old 11-26-18, 07:26 AM
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I hate this keyboard!!
Should state angle slightly
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Old 11-26-18, 09:19 AM
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You need an asymmetrical bike frame.
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Old 11-28-18, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Tandem Tom View Post
I hate this keyboard!!
Should state angle slightly
That doesn't make sense either.
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Old 11-28-18, 11:55 AM
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Would angling/turning the saddle to one side correct the position of my knee at the top of the pedal stroke in relation to the top tube?
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Old 11-28-18, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Tandem Tom View Post
Would angling/turning the saddle to one side correct the position of my knee at the top of the pedal stroke in relation to the top tube?
I can't imagine that would do anything but cause other problems and/or discomfort. Are you saying that the inside of one knee is closer to the top tube than the other? If so, do you suffer from foot overpronation? Genu valgum? Does your knee being closer to the top tube present any problems for you while riding? If so, I'd see an orthopedist or a sports medicine practitioner.
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Old 11-28-18, 06:26 PM
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Are you experiencing any discomfort? If not, then it is a non-issue. I mean your cleats probably aren't set exactly the same on both feet, I know mine certainly aren't, and that alone I imagine could contribute to the uneven knee to top tube distance you speak of.
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Old 11-28-18, 09:06 PM
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Ah, I get it now. Sure, don't do that. Stretching might help, all the various stretches in which the knees are angled and hips twisted. Try doing a series of full squats, no weight, all the way down until hams hit calves. Both knees the same?
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Old 11-30-18, 04:32 PM
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one on either side...

Have a Sports Orthopedist to consult, ... in person?
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Old 12-01-18, 12:31 PM
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Add arch support and possibly shims to raise the inside of the foot slightly.

Pieces of bar tape or cork gasket sheet taped to the bottom of the insole works well


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Old 12-02-18, 01:07 PM
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Interesting idea. Though that will work on my my shoes but I don't think it will work on my shimShi sandals.
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Old 12-10-18, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post
Add arch support and possibly shims to raise the inside of the foot slightly.

Pieces of bar tape or cork gasket sheet taped to the bottom of the insole works well


That is what I've done. I have very high arches and one knee tends to graze the top tube. I've filled in some of the space under the arches and I've also added a one degree shim between the shoe and the cleat.
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Old 12-14-18, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Tandem Tom View Post
The other day as I was riding I notice that my left knee,at the top of the pedal stroke, is closer to the top tube than the right knee. My cleats are in the same position on both shoes. Would angling the side dlighsli be appropriate?

​​​​​​
Another cause of this is having your seat too high. The fitter fixed the issue by lowering the seat height.
"bikefitjames

A “windswept” pedalling dynamic can be the result of a number drivers the most common being a rider listing to one side. Usually driven by insufficient support of the pelvis or a saddle that’s too high. Do you brush the top tube with one knee? If so might be worth having your position checked."

Take a look at this:
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Old 12-15-18, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
Another cause of this is having your seat too high. The fitter fixed the issue by lowering the seat height.
"bikefitjames

A “windswept” pedalling dynamic can be the result of a number drivers the most common being a rider listing to one side. Usually driven by insufficient support of the pelvis or a saddle that’s too high. Do you brush the top tube with one knee? If so might be worth having your position checked."

Take a look at this: https://www.instagram.com/p/BrSXNqnlhCr/


The saddle is not too high in that clip- lots of knee bend. Maybe that rider's knee would track straighter with a too-low saddle,

but that would be over-all stupid.

I've watched many cyclists while riding behind, & don't see any correlation with high saddle & knee tracking issues-

if anything the opposite, less knee bend = less knee movement so less extraneous motion.

Hopefully the rest of this guy's program has more to offer.
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Old 12-16-18, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post
The saddle is not too high in that clip- lots of knee bend. Maybe that rider's knee would track straighter with a too-low saddle,

but that would be over-all stupid.

I've watched many cyclists while riding behind, & don't see any correlation with high saddle & knee tracking issues-

if anything the opposite, less knee bend = less knee movement so less extraneous motion.

Hopefully the rest of this guy's program has more to offer.
Your comment is a good example of one of the problems today with bike fitting, you are dismiss the advice of someone who fits using a dynamic system, rather than relying on only numbers and angles. Numbers and angles do not take into account the individual's fitness level and flexibility.

I am someone who had the same issue. I was having pain, after having been fitted. This resulted in perineum pain, and hip pain. The hip pain did lasting damage that persists to this day, though it is getting better. One of the tells was the dimples on my B17 were skewed towards the right side. What was happening, was that due to a too high of seat height, for me, I was dropping one side to compensate. This led to the hip damage.

My seat height is now lower. I used Steve Hogg's method to determine seat height, and the result is that I m not more stable on the bike, I do not slide forward, the dimples have now reformed in the correct places, I have no hip pain, no knee pain, no perineum pain, and have no issues riding long distances, 50-100 miles at a time. I have also been able to lower my bars to a position I favor with no pain, and without pressure on my hands and wrists. My situation was every bit like the one int he link I supplied. I am so happy I did not listen to advice such as yours any longer, and moved to a more dynamic approach to fit.
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Old 12-16-18, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
Your comment is a good example of one of the problems today with bike fitting, you are dismiss the advice of someone who fits using a dynamic system, rather than relying on only numbers and angles. Numbers and angles do not take into account the individual's fitness level and flexibility.

I am someone who had the same issue. I was having pain, after having been fitted. This resulted in perineum pain, and hip pain. The hip pain did lasting damage that persists to this day, though it is getting better. One of the tells was the dimples on my B17 were skewed towards the right side. What was happening, was that due to a too high of seat height, for me, I was dropping one side to compensate. This led to the hip damage.

My seat height is now lower. I used Steve Hogg's method to determine seat height, and the result is that I m not more stable on the bike, I do not slide forward, the dimples have now reformed in the correct places, I have no hip pain, no knee pain, no perineum pain, and have no issues riding long distances, 50-100 miles at a time. I have also been able to lower my bars to a position I favor with no pain, and without pressure on my hands and wrists. My situation was every bit like the one int he link I supplied. I am so happy I did not listen to advice such as yours any longer, and moved to a more dynamic approach to fit.


It sounds like you are saying that you took the advice of a fitter, which resulted in lasting damage, so it may be an open question of whose advice to dismiss.

I'm glad that you got your fit issues worked out, & I am certainly not a proponent of high saddle position, and am a Steve Hogg fan.

I see plenty of folks with what I consider to be too high of a saddle, but not among those that I ride with, so maybe they do have one knee closer to the top tube than the other and I haven't been close enough to see it.

Your clip by bikefitjames shows a rider whose issue is clearly not too high of a saddle. Do you disagree?
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Old 12-16-18, 08:47 PM
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I ride with a couple people who have wild right knees - they stick out when they pedal. They seem to do fine and have ridden that way for 10s of thousands of miles. I don't know why and I don't ask. So there's an option: ignore it unless it causes you pain.
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Old 12-16-18, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post
It sounds like you are saying that you took the advice of a fitter, which resulted in lasting damage, so it may be an open question of whose advice to dismiss.

I'm glad that you got your fit issues worked out, & I am certainly not a proponent of high saddle position, and am a Steve Hogg fan.

I see plenty of folks with what I consider to be too high of a saddle, but not among those that I ride with, so maybe they do have one knee closer to the top tube than the other and I haven't been close enough to see it.

Your clip by bikefitjames shows a rider whose issue is clearly not too high of a saddle. Do you disagree?
I cannot say for sure. It is difficult to assess without seeing that rider from the side while pedaling. I do know that bikefitkames does good work. I do not know if he set that up as an example, or if that was a person who actually had the issue. I do know, that he does in fact fix people's issues with fit. I also know that from personal experience, one of my knees was closer to the top the than the other, until I lowered my seat, using Steve Hogg's techniques. As for the OP in this thread, who knows. Seat height may or may not be the cause of the issue, but it is a possibility, and that is my only point. It is simply something to consider.
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Old 12-16-18, 09:48 PM
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I just happened to watch the video I am linking below this morning.
I have no opinion one way or the other, but I think it's exactly what you guys are talking about. At 2:30 he talks about more pressure on one side of the saddle because the seat is too high.

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Old 12-17-18, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by pvillemasher View Post
I just happened to watch the video I am linking below this morning.
I have no opinion one way or the other, but I think it's exactly what you guys are talking about. At 2:30 he talks about more pressure on one side of the saddle because the seat is too high.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD1erd-5MOs


Interesting. He says that the previous fitter shimmed up the cleat on one side because her saddle was too high.

That's a second example of a professional fit possibly doing more harm than good.
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Old 12-17-18, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by pvillemasher View Post
I just happened to watch the video I am linking below this morning.
I have no opinion one way or the other, but I think it's exactly what you guys are talking about. At 2:30 he talks about more pressure on one side of the saddle because the seat is too high.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD1erd-5MOs
He also goes on to talk about the too high seat height's effect on knee tracking.
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