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Track cycling - Bike, Gearing, Kit advice please 😊

Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area Looking to enter into the realm of track racing? Want to share your experiences and tactics for riding on a velodrome? The Track Cycling forums is for you! Come in and discuss training/racing, equipment, and current track cycling events.

Track cycling - Bike, Gearing, Kit advice please 😊

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Old 12-30-18, 01:07 PM
  #26  
ChrisRob01
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
I feel like the bad guy tempering the enthusiasm.

I think that looking at the times of 40-44 year old masters can be misleading and disheartening to a beginner. 35-39 and 40-44 are (arguably) the fastest age groups for masters racing. Top riders can post times close to some elites.

A rank beginner will post slow times. Period.

When Chris rides his first few flying 200s that will likely be 14-15Ē, that may disappoint a man expecting to be in the 11-12Ē range. And he may lose interest.

As one of the top coaches in the US Kirk Whiteman told me, ďIt takes a trackie four years to become good. Eight years to become great.Ē

Be careful not to compare yourself to those who habe been riding for a long time. They have already worked out their kinks.
Thansk for the guidance , I just wanna have fun and get better, iíve been watching a lot on line and I know it will be much harder. I can imagine getting the timing wrong could make a big difference on time.

Also iíve not cornered fast yet, iím sure that will be hard as well
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Old 12-30-18, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisRob01 View Post


thanks again, really appreciate all the advice 😊

I just want to get better and keep improving and having fun

track straps? I wasnít aware, what would you reccomend?

Also any guidance on the skin suit?
No worries. Honestly, maybe Iím getting ahead of things with the straps advice - donít overcomplicate things, max tension on your pedals should be fine for most efforts and enduros donít bother with straps at all. My old coach makes some under the G Race sprint straps brand. But I use plain locally made ones now. Theyíre a wide piece of nylon webbing with a metal thing and velcro to secure you so you canít twist out of the pedals in a max effort. But modern pedals are really quite good if you have a decent pedalstroke. The straps are mainly for a bit of extra confidence amd security.

Skinsuit - not actually a big deal as a beginner, I was kind of making the joke that bike riders love to look professional above all else... but they are faster and look better - just whatever fits and is the right price with a quality chamois pad. Shorts and a jersey are fine too, but a skinsuit guarantees you wonít have your jersey ride up or flap around when youíre in a low track position. For championship races in they usually want you to wear a plain-coloured or your club skinsuit i.e. not one of the pro team ones. But thatís an issue for later. The debate about what type of skinsuit is fastest is also not something to worry about yet, but I think there are more than a few threads on here and elsewhere. They wear out so just get something serviceable and comfortable for now. Spend any spare cash on your bike first, as itís a longer term investment probably...

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Old 12-30-18, 11:08 PM
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1 Piece Cycling Speedsuit:

Short sleeve variant:


Long sleeve variant:



2 Piece Budget Cycling Speedsuit:

Common compression shirt + Your favorite bib shorts




Bonuses:
- You can easily install/remove the top yourself when it's time to use the bathroom. No need for help getting the sleeves on and off.
- You can find the tops at any store that sells sports apparel.
- Available in multiple colors, long or short sleeve options.
- The top will cost the fraction of the cost of a cycling jersey.
- You will obtain 99.9% of the aero gains of a proper speedsuit. (-0.1% loss due to the fact that there isn't a totally smooth transition between the top and the shorts. The transition is a couple of mm thick. sorry)

Last edited by carleton; 12-30-18 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 12-30-18, 11:12 PM
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Real talk: Speedsuits are a pain in the ass for daily/weekly training and racing. And it's expensive to have several on hand.

The "2-piece Speedsuit" eliminates the most common pain points of using speesuits while delivering the aero gains.

Save the 1-piece speedsuit for special events.
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Old 12-30-18, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Real talk: Speedsuits are a pain in the ass for daily/weekly training and racing. And it's expensive to have several on hand.

The "2-piece Speedsuit" eliminates the most common pain points of using speesuits while delivering the aero gains.

Save the 1-piece speedsuit for special events.

But...but...but...marginal gains.
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Old 12-30-18, 11:31 PM
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lol
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Old 12-31-18, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
But...but...but...marginal gains.
All you really need is a midnight delivery from a guy with a paper bag of unknown contents.
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Old 12-31-18, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by colnago62 View Post


All you really need is a midnight delivery from a guy with a paper bag of unknown contents.
**cough** asthma puffer **cough**
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Old 12-31-18, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by brawlo View Post


**cough** asthma puffer **cough**

That cough sounds horrible! Should be no problem getting a TUE for that!
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Old 12-31-18, 12:52 PM
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well... the compression tops will "look" aero at least. Close to 99% vs. some of the off the shelf club suits I suppose.

There's a little more to it than it being tight (although that...usually, up to a point at least... helps)
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Old 12-31-18, 06:50 PM
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I believe that the biggest offense that regular ďclubĒ jerseys do are the wrinkles and the floppiness due to their loose fit by design.

I believe this is why pro road teams have switched to form fitting jerseys over the past couple of years.
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Old 01-01-19, 07:27 AM
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yeah, as a general rule the hierarchy is wrinkles < skin < clothing

once you get into clothing though it's still the wild west. Fabric and placement is just so important (and individual) - I spent around 10 years thinking the best size skinsuits were the one's it took 4 people and a stick of butter to get you into. (maybe even true with skinsuits ~5-10 years old) but now with the fabrics being textured or with specifically designed seams, too tight and you change the intended benefit of the suit (usually for the worse) so now I think "the right size" matters more than the tightest thing you can zip up.

Not exactly related, but another thing that I had always "assumed" / built a bias on was numbers being pinned/glued on tight so they didn't flop around. While that's probably a good rule of thumb, I had to rethink it when someone showed me their data of a (well placed) less form fitting number actually being a benefit.

Aerodynamics... so hard to get over our (often hammered in) notions of what works and why.
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Old 01-01-19, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Ricovonsuave View Post


No worries. Honestly, maybe Iím getting ahead of things with the straps advice - donít overcomplicate things, max tension on your pedals should be fine for most efforts and enduros donít bother with straps at all. My old coach makes some under the G Race sprint straps brand. But I use plain locally made ones now. Theyíre a wide piece of nylon webbing with a metal thing and velcro to secure you so you canít twist out of the pedals in a max effort. But modern pedals are really quite good if you have a decent pedalstroke. The straps are mainly for a bit of extra confidence amd security.

Skinsuit - not actually a big deal as a beginner, I was kind of making the joke that bike riders love to look professional above all else... but they are faster and look better - just whatever fits and is the right price with a quality chamois pad. Shorts and a jersey are fine too, but a skinsuit guarantees you wonít have your jersey ride up or flap around when youíre in a low track position. For championship races in they usually want you to wear a plain-coloured or your club skinsuit i.e. not one of the pro team ones. But thatís an issue for later. The debate about what type of skinsuit is fastest is also not something to worry about yet, but I think there are more than a few threads on here and elsewhere. They wear out so just get something serviceable and comfortable for now. Spend any spare cash on your bike first, as itís a longer term investment probably...
Thanks again and happy new year!

Sorry one last question, Iíve saved up some money for the first bike, what price point would you reccomend to get the best out of it?
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Old 01-01-19, 12:09 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
1 Piece Cycling Speedsuit:

Short sleeve variant:


Long sleeve variant:



2 Piece Budget Cycling Speedsuit:

Common compression shirt + Your favorite bib shorts




Bonuses:
- You can easily install/remove the top yourself when it's time to use the bathroom. No need for help getting the sleeves on and off.
- You can find the tops at any store that sells sports apparel.
- Available in multiple colors, long or short sleeve options.
- The top will cost the fraction of the cost of a cycling jersey.
- You will obtain 99.9% of the aero gains of a proper speedsuit. (-0.1% loss due to the fact that there isn't a totally smooth transition between the top and the shorts. The transition is a couple of mm thick. sorry)
thanks again Carelton and happy new year, I would rather keep simple 👍
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Old 01-01-19, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Real talk: Speedsuits are a pain in the ass for daily/weekly training and racing. And it's expensive to have several on hand.

The "2-piece Speedsuit" eliminates the most common pain points of using speesuits while delivering the aero gains.

Save the 1-piece speedsuit for special events.
thanks 👍
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Old 01-01-19, 02:35 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by ChrisRob01 View Post


Thanks again and happy new year!

Sorry one last question, Iíve saved up some money for the first bike, what price point would you reccomend to get the best out of it?
That will depend on where you are located, as some bikes are cheaper in certain parts of the world compared to others.

My generic advice to people is if you know you're going to stick it out and are in the sport for the long haul, then buy the bike with the best frame that you can afford that fits you properly. Why frame? Because this is the "hardest"part of a bike to upgrade. You can swap out components relatively easily, but the frame is another upgrade all on it's own. Granted, I've seen a few riders buy a dirt cheap used bike of not that great quality, and upgrade the components before stepping up to a much nicer frame. The only problem with frames lower down in price points is the geometry. Many low end frames/bikes have "fixie"geometry. In other words, they are fixed gear bikes but have road geometry for the streets. They will be shorter in reach, and usually taller as well, more closely resembling a road bike. This can make it hard to get a low position for track racing, so while it might be okay for the first few months, you will quickly outpace the frames performance and end up purchasing components to make it work that you may not be able to use on your next frame.' I see this as a waste twice over.

Either way works in the end, as generally, after a few years, most riders want to upgrade their frame anyway. I tell riders to budget $600-1000 for their first bike, or if looking for a used bike or frame, to use this retail price as the lower floor for bikes to look at. Below this retail price point, the waters quickly get muddied with street fixies. Used is a great way to start, as unless the frame is crashed and crooked, you get a lot of value for your money as track stuff tends to get low mileage and wear.
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Old 01-01-19, 02:52 PM
  #42  
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From my personal and recent experience, I would buy any frame that has a reasonable geometry at a reasonable price. Donít sweat the details at this stage as it will take a while to dial in your fit and position for track as itís very different to the road. You wonít know what you actually need until you have ridden a particular frame for a while and realise what you need from a frame geometry that canít be changed with stems and bars etc.

when I first started looking into track frames I was attracted to much more expensive and good looking frames such as the Cannondale Caad10 or the BMC TM01.
Thankfully I purchased neither and went for a Planet X. Was the Planet X the best frame? No, not really, but it was definitely good enough to compete on and it allowed me to find out what I wanted from a frame. As it turns out the caad10 and BMC would have been totally wrong and I would have wasted money. Thing is they were about £1500 whereas I only spent £350 on the Planet X. I have now swapped the Planet X for a Dolan DF4 but Iím glad I had the PX To find out what I needed before dropping big money and I can sell the PX for pretty much what I paid for it.
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Old 01-02-19, 04:31 AM
  #43  
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For me, I would look at a second hand frame that fits and with some nice components attached. You are highly likely to change your frame if you stick with the sport, but the attachments like cranks, wheels, bars, etc can be transferred from bike to bike if they suit you. That’s exactly what I did.

I still have and use my very first DA hub to Velocity Aerohead wheelset from 11 years and 4 frames ago. My DA cranks only went because I went for a different crank length only a few years ago. Quality kit could last you your whole racing life if you get it right
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Old 01-02-19, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ChrisRob01 View Post


Thanks again and happy new year!

Sorry one last question, Iíve saved up some money for the first bike, what price point would you reccomend to get the best out of it?
Happy New year. I hope you're out training too, and not just posting in the forum?

Yeah, like everyone above said, don't stress about the exact bike - pick one you like, that fits, with track geometry designed for use on real velodromes, with a good frame and decent-quality parts (144 BCD cranks as others mentioned so they're compatible with track chainrings as you build up a small set of them, and decent training wheels and tyres you don't have to immediately upgrade). You can always buy new toys later once you get into the sport more.. Modern track bikes will all be aluminium or carbon, but I rode my old custom steel frame pretty fast for a couple of seasons after my 'big comeback'... the motor (and a lot of practice) matters most.

So we can't really tell you what ££ you should spend, but track bikes certainly don't need to be expensive to be competitive.

The Dolans are really good bikes with a good spec of proper track parts, at a good price point. If you're buying new, the Pre Cursa Track ought do you nicely for many seasons, or until you decide to upgrade. [NB - the carbon Dolan DF4 is basically the production version of the old TeamGB bikes, and the narrow Alpina bars are still used by many sprinters at the top level, so they do have a good track record in track... ]

In the UK for new bikes, and without spending stupid money, the Dolans come top of mind as a longtime track brand, as well as the Planet X Pro Carbon. These are both good bikes and good value and would serve you well for seasons. Other good options might be the aluminium (or carbon) Fuji track bikes, the aluminium Cervelo or Look track bikes, the Merida Reacto, etc if you can get them at the right price/size.

But no bike will make you any faster until you get out there and ride it...
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Old 01-02-19, 08:26 AM
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What size frame are you looking for Chris?
Absolutely not trying to push a sale, but i have my large (58) Planet X Track Pro frame set up for sale at the moment if its of interest.

Also, if you aren't on there already, check out the "Track Cycling Buy, Sell or Swap UK" group on facebook. Lots of great kit ( both bikes and components) comes up for sale on there regularly at sensible prices.
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Old 01-02-19, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
That will depend on where you are located, as some bikes are cheaper in certain parts of the world compared to others.

My generic advice to people is if you know you're going to stick it out and are in the sport for the long haul, then buy the bike with the best frame that you can afford that fits you properly. Why frame? Because this is the "hardest"part of a bike to upgrade. You can swap out components relatively easily, but the frame is another upgrade all on it's own. Granted, I've seen a few riders buy a dirt cheap used bike of not that great quality, and upgrade the components before stepping up to a much nicer frame. The only problem with frames lower down in price points is the geometry. Many low end frames/bikes have "fixie"geometry. In other words, they are fixed gear bikes but have road geometry for the streets. They will be shorter in reach, and usually taller as well, more closely resembling a road bike. This can make it hard to get a low position for track racing, so while it might be okay for the first few months, you will quickly outpace the frames performance and end up purchasing components to make it work that you may not be able to use on your next frame.' I see this as a waste twice over.

Either way works in the end, as generally, after a few years, most riders want to upgrade their frame anyway. I tell riders to budget $600-1000 for their first bike, or if looking for a used bike or frame, to use this retail price as the lower floor for bikes to look at. Below this retail price point, the waters quickly get muddied with street fixies. Used is a great way to start, as unless the frame is crashed and crooked, you get a lot of value for your money as track stuff tends to get low mileage and wear.

thanks a lot great advice 👍
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Old 01-02-19, 10:23 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Kaben View Post
From my personal and recent experience, I would buy any frame that has a reasonable geometry at a reasonable price. Donít sweat the details at this stage as it will take a while to dial in your fit and position for track as itís very different to the road. You wonít know what you actually need until you have ridden a particular frame for a while and realise what you need from a frame geometry that canít be changed with stems and bars etc.

when I first started looking into track frames I was attracted to much more expensive and good looking frames such as the Cannondale Caad10 or the BMC TM01.
Thankfully I purchased neither and went for a Planet X. Was the Planet X the best frame? No, not really, but it was definitely good enough to compete on and it allowed me to find out what I wanted from a frame. As it turns out the caad10 and BMC would have been totally wrong and I would have wasted money. Thing is they were about £1500 whereas I only spent £350 on the Planet X. I have now swapped the Planet X for a Dolan DF4 but Iím glad I had the PX To find out what I needed before dropping big money and I can sell the PX for pretty much what I paid for it.
Thansk was also looking at BMC thatís good to know 👍
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Old 01-02-19, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by brawlo View Post
For me, I would look at a second hand frame that fits and with some nice components attached. You are highly likely to change your frame if you stick with the sport, but the attachments like cranks, wheels, bars, etc can be transferred from bike to bike if they suit you. Thatís exactly what I did.

I still have and use my very first DA hub to Velocity Aerohead wheelset from 11 years and 4 frames ago. My DA cranks only went because I went for a different crank length only a few years ago. Quality kit could last you your whole racing life if you get it right
makes a lot of sense, I will have a look, thanks 😊
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Old 01-02-19, 10:26 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Ricovonsuave View Post
Happy New year. I hope you're out training too, and not just posting in the forum?

Yeah, like everyone above said, don't stress about the exact bike - pick one you like, that fits, with track geometry designed for use on real velodromes, with a good frame and decent-quality parts (144 BCD cranks as others mentioned so they're compatible with track chainrings as you build up a small set of them, and decent training wheels and tyres you don't have to immediately upgrade). You can always buy new toys later once you get into the sport more.. Modern track bikes will all be aluminium or carbon, but I rode my old custom steel frame pretty fast for a couple of seasons after my 'big comeback'... the motor (and a lot of practice) matters most.

So we can't really tell you what ££ you should spend, but track bikes certainly don't need to be expensive to be competitive.

The Dolans are really good bikes with a good spec of proper track parts, at a good price point. If you're buying new, the Pre Cursa Track ought do you nicely for many seasons, or until you decide to upgrade. [NB - the carbon Dolan DF4 is basically the production version of the old TeamGB bikes, and the narrow Alpina bars are still used by many sprinters at the top level, so they do have a good track record in track... ]

In the UK for new bikes, and without spending stupid money, the Dolans come top of mind as a longtime track brand, as well as the Planet X Pro Carbon. These are both good bikes and good value and would serve you well for seasons. Other good options might be the aluminium (or carbon) Fuji track bikes, the aluminium Cervelo or Look track bikes, the Merida Reacto, etc if you can get them at the right price/size.

But no bike will make you any faster until you get out there and ride it...
Lol yes training 5 days a week, loving it but the long rides and base needs some work 😊

Thanks again, very grateful for your time 👍
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Old 01-02-19, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Kaben View Post
What size frame are you looking for Chris?
Absolutely not trying to push a sale, but i have my large (58) Planet X Track Pro frame set up for sale at the moment if its of interest.

Also, if you aren't on there already, check out the "Track Cycling Buy, Sell or Swap UK" group on facebook. Lots of great kit ( both bikes and components) comes up for sale on there regularly at sensible prices.
54 likely, thanks I will have a look at that 👍
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