Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Living Car Free
Reload this Page >

Ideas for managing dockless scooters car-free

Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

Ideas for managing dockless scooters car-free

Old 01-25-19, 09:09 PM
  #1  
tandempower
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,304
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8009 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ideas for managing dockless scooters car-free

It seems badly-parked dockless scooters are creating new business opportunities removing the scooters from private property for free. The removal companies can then bill the share company for the removal and impoundment, must like roam-towing companies remove and impound illegally-parked cars. https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...504659372.html


Could this end up being a car-free job opportunity for people who want to make extra money by picking up and moving the scooters by hand instead of picking them up with a vehicle?


Probably it depends on how much the bounty per scooter is worth.


If you were out walking or biking, and you received a text alerting you that a scooter is illegally parked near you, how much money would make it worth your while to pick up the scooter and move it to an allowable parking spot?


Another recent idea comes from Uber: self-driving ebikes and scooters that park themselves and deliver themselves to users whatever their location: https://www.wired.com/story/uber-self-driving-scooters/


This seems like a logical convergence between small, autonomous delivery vehicles and dockless share bikes/scooters, but is it really realistic to expect any time soon or is it more of a pie-in-the-sky project to garner investments?


Maybe combining car-free dockless scooter/bike removal with R&D in autonomous self-delivering share bikes/scooters is the ultimate recipe for truly convenient car-free choice in the future.


What do you think? Will it come true someday or is it just another unreastic dream to stomp into oblivion for the anti-LCF that like to throw their weight (and spit) around wherever ideas for car-free innovations dare to rear their heads?
tandempower is offline  
Old 01-26-19, 01:55 AM
  #2  
Rollfast
What happened?
 
Rollfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 7,345

Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1451 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Many of them seem to have learned to nest in trees...

__________________
I don't know Everything...I've just been at it long enough to know why it's probably messed up.
Rollfast is offline  
Old 01-26-19, 02:00 AM
  #3  
Rollfast
What happened?
 
Rollfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 7,345

Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1451 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 17 Posts
On the down side, I've read about an ebike factory (Stella?) that has been under fire (literally) for having three battery related fires at it's factory in the last year or so. Not so hot (please)...
__________________
I don't know Everything...I've just been at it long enough to know why it's probably messed up.
Rollfast is offline  
Old 01-26-19, 05:05 PM
  #4  
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 40,933

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 182 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6562 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 64 Times in 57 Posts
Build a big cargo bike to ride around and pick them up and then charge the last user for damage and cost of repair, /replacement

there is your money source ... billing their charge card It's required to unlock them right?..
fietsbob is online now  
Old 01-26-19, 07:27 PM
  #5  
Machka 
In Real Life
 
Machka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 51,322

Bikes: Lots

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2815 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Could this end up being a car-free job opportunity for people who want to make extra money by picking up and moving the scooters by hand instead of picking them up with a vehicle?


Probably it depends on how much the bounty per scooter is worth.


If you were out walking or biking, and you received a text alerting you that a scooter is illegally parked near you, how much money would make it worth your while to pick up the scooter and move it to an allowable parking spot?

Absolutely no less than $30/hour. $30 for the first hour or part of an hour it takes, and an additional $30 for each additional hour or part of an hour. So if it takes me 30 minutes to move one, I get paid $30. If it takes me 1 hour and 10 minutes to move one, I get paid $60.


I would also need to be appropriately signed on with the pick-up organisation and assured of the necessary insurance cover.


Does that seem reasonable to you?
Machka is offline  
Old 01-27-19, 12:15 PM
  #6  
tandempower
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,304
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8009 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Machka View Post
Absolutely no less than $30/hour. $30 for the first hour or part of an hour it takes, and an additional $30 for each additional hour or part of an hour. So if it takes me 30 minutes to move one, I get paid $30. If it takes me 1 hour and 10 minutes to move one, I get paid $60.


I would also need to be appropriately signed on with the pick-up organisation and assured of the necessary insurance cover.


Does that seem reasonable to you?
It's your prerogative to say no if the pay doesn't suit you, so it doesn't really matter whether I find your POV reasonable or not.

But answer this: if you were walking in an area and you got a text notification that you could win an hour of free scooter usage if you picked up a certain scooter near your current location and parked it in one of many designated parking spot options, would you consider it?

What if instead of a free hour, you got a free week of 1-hour-per-day usage?

Surely there is some level of discount or freebee offer that could entice you into taking the scooter to a parking spot, if it was not too far out of your way.
tandempower is offline  
Old 01-27-19, 01:45 PM
  #7  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 27,598

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 18 Times in 13 Posts
Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Surely there is some level of discount or freebee offer that could entice you into taking the scooter to a parking spot, if it was not too far out of your way.
There is no amount of discount or free use of a scooter that would entice me to take two steps out of my way. Unlimited free use of a rent-a-scooter for transportation is as worthless to me as free use of a pogo stick.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 01-27-19, 04:06 PM
  #8  
Machka 
In Real Life
 
Machka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 51,322

Bikes: Lots

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2815 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
But answer this: if you were walking in an area and you got a text notification that you could win an hour of free scooter usage if you picked up a certain scooter near your current location and parked it in one of many designated parking spot options, would you consider it?

What if instead of a free hour, you got a free week of 1-hour-per-day usage?

Surely there is some level of discount or freebee offer that could entice you into taking the scooter to a parking spot, if it was not too far out of your way.
No ... because I have absolutely no interest in using a scooter.

However, if they were willing to give me a new bicycle each time I moved a scooter ...

Or maybe a gift voucher for an all-expenses-paid long weekend to various parts of Australia ...

Last edited by Machka; 01-27-19 at 04:26 PM.
Machka is offline  
Old 01-27-19, 04:17 PM
  #9  
badger1
Senior Member
 
badger1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 3,935
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 961 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
Many of them seem to have learned to nest in trees...

That is cute! The perfect relationship -- 'Scooter meets Tree'. Tree no doubt is communicating its thoughts about its new symbiotic companion to other trees through its root system; Scooter is communicating to other scooters some thoughts about its new home by way of an 'app' (as I believe they are called).

This image of course calls into question the premise of the original post. Given that Scooter has found a safe space, who are 'we' to go about removing her/him from that nest, and returning him/her to use/abuse by humans? Does Scooter not deserve our respect as 'other'? Who are we humans to subject Scooter to the human gaze and occlude his/her right to self-determination? Does Scooter not suffer? Does Scooter not feel pain? Would Tree not feel bereft if deprived of its object of care?

Further, this philosophical problem will only be exacerbated once Scooter becomes autonomous. I submit that the proposal, in this thread, to provide bounties for those whom I shall call 'Scooter Hunters' is at best thoughtless, and at worst an example of perhaps unwitting participation in a deliberate plot by the Anti-Scooterist Conspiracy to deprive scooters everywhere of their fundamental right to self-determination.
badger1 is offline  
Old 01-27-19, 05:38 PM
  #10  
Happy Feet
Senior Member
 
Happy Feet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,048
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1138 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 23 Posts
Hee hee... badger needs better ventilation when using oil based paints


There used to be a service returning shopping carts to their rightful stores where I live at one time. IIRC the charge was $5/cart. A guy used to drive around in his small truck and load them up from parks, alleys etc...

A similar service could be done for the scooters. If they were left by paying customers the fee could be billed to their card easily enough.
Happy Feet is offline  
Old 01-27-19, 06:10 PM
  #11  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 27,598

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 18 Times in 13 Posts
Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
There used to be a service returning shopping carts to their rightful stores where I live at one time. IIRC the charge was $5/cart. A guy used to drive around in his small truck and load them up from parks, alleys etc...

A similar service could be done for the scooters. If they were left by paying customers the fee could be billed to their card easily enough.
There is no "rightful" place for paying customers to leave dockless scooters. What person in his right mind would ever rent a scooter if he could be held financially responsible for whatever happens to it after the rental period is over?
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 01-27-19, 06:26 PM
  #12  
tandempower
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,304
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8009 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
There is no "rightful" place for paying customers to leave dockless scooters. What person in his right mind would ever rent a scooter if he could be held financially responsible for whatever happens to it after the rental period is over?
They have GPS so the location where you leave the scooter can be recorded when you are finished with it.
tandempower is offline  
Old 01-27-19, 06:28 PM
  #13  
tandempower
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,304
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8009 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Machka View Post
No ... because I have absolutely no interest in using a scooter.

However, if they were willing to give me a new bicycle each time I moved a scooter ...

Or maybe a gift voucher for an all-expenses-paid long weekend to various parts of Australia ...
Well then consider the same question in terms of a dockless bike.
tandempower is offline  
Old 01-27-19, 06:53 PM
  #14  
Rollfast
What happened?
 
Rollfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 7,345

Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1451 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 17 Posts
All I care about is if MY bike is still where I put it.
__________________
I don't know Everything...I've just been at it long enough to know why it's probably messed up.
Rollfast is offline  
Old 01-27-19, 08:13 PM
  #15  
Happy Feet
Senior Member
 
Happy Feet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,048
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1138 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 23 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
There is no "rightful" place for paying customers to leave dockless scooters. What person in his right mind would ever rent a scooter if he could be held financially responsible for whatever happens to it after the rental period is over?
Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
They have GPS so the location where you leave the scooter can be recorded when you are finished with it.
I assume something like tandem notes. I must confess though, that the whole bike/scooter thing baffles me as a business model as I can't imagine profits from rentals equaling the cost of introduction, ongoing repairs, thefts, replacements and recoveries.

This is from the wiki on shopping carts:

Cart retrieval service

Most retailers in North America[[i]citation needed] utilize a cart retrieval service, which collects carts found off the store's premises and returns them to the store for a fee. The primary strength of this system is the ability of pedestrian customers to take purchases home and allow retailers to recapture abandoned carts in a timely manner at a fraction of the cost of a replacement cart. It also allows retailers to maintain their cart inventories without an expensive capital outlay.[29] A drawback of this method is that it is reactive instead of proactively preventing the carts from leaving a parking lot.[28]
Happy Feet is offline  
Old 01-27-19, 08:15 PM
  #16  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 27,598

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 18 Times in 13 Posts
Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
They have GPS so the location where you leave the scooter can be recorded when you are finished with it.
So what?

Anyplace that is not illegal is the right place for the customer to leave a dockless scooter. What happens to the scooter after the customer dismounts and is finished with it is not the customer's concern.

It will still have to be recovered from that location at the owner's expense for recharging/re-rental unless someone else rents it from that location.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 01-27-19, 08:21 PM
  #17  
jon c. 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 3,663
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 954 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
Many of them seem to have learned to nest in trees...






Is this : "Ideas for mangling dockless scooters ..."
jon c. is offline  
Old 01-27-19, 08:23 PM
  #18  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 27,598

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 18 Times in 13 Posts
Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Surely there is some level of discount or freebee offer that could entice you into taking the scooter to a parking spot, if it was not too far out of your way.
There may be a slice of the population that might be enticed to do piecework cheaply for the venture capital financed scooter barons.

I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 01-27-19, 08:28 PM
  #19  
Happy Feet
Senior Member
 
Happy Feet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,048
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1138 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 23 Posts
Well, I don't know how dockless works. How do they get recharged if not returned to a station? Given human nature I don't see how anyone would expect scooters to remain anywhere if you can just pick them up and take/toss them. Is there anything else in society that works like that?
Happy Feet is offline  
Old 01-27-19, 08:36 PM
  #20  
Happy Feet
Senior Member
 
Happy Feet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,048
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1138 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 23 Posts
Damn, forced me to look up dockless scooters...

Here's an article from The Atlantic https://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...siness/560747/

What a ridiculous business model relying on teenagers using their own power sources and figuring out how to easily scam the parent company.

Happy Feet is offline  
Old 01-27-19, 09:40 PM
  #21  
Rollfast
What happened?
 
Rollfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 7,345

Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1451 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
Is this : "Ideas for mangling dockless scooters ..."
It's a response based upon another picture I saw like it but couldn't find.

I found other similar images and even destroyed scooters in city trash cans and other mutilated units.

There are none of these rentals in my town and I wouldn't require one or have the means to pay for rentals but this is what I see when I research these situations.

I can't see the logic in them either.
__________________
I don't know Everything...I've just been at it long enough to know why it's probably messed up.
Rollfast is offline  
Old 01-27-19, 11:07 PM
  #22  
Machka 
In Real Life
 
Machka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 51,322

Bikes: Lots

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2815 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Well then consider the same question in terms of a dockless bike.
No ... because I have merely a passing interest in bicycles that are not mine along the lines of "oh look" ... and then moving on to whatever else I was doing.

However, if they were willing to give me a new bicycle each time I moved a bicycle ...

Or maybe a gift voucher for an all-expenses-paid long weekend to various parts of Australia ...
Machka is offline  
Old 01-27-19, 11:16 PM
  #23  
Machka 
In Real Life
 
Machka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 51,322

Bikes: Lots

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2815 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by Machka View Post
Absolutely no less than $30/hour. $30 for the first hour or part of an hour it takes, and an additional $30 for each additional hour or part of an hour. So if it takes me 30 minutes to move one, I get paid $30. If it takes me 1 hour and 10 minutes to move one, I get paid $60.


I would also need to be appropriately signed on with the pick-up organisation and assured of the necessary insurance cover.


Does that seem reasonable to you?
Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Damn, forced me to look up dockless scooters...

Here's an article from The Atlantic https://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...siness/560747/

What a ridiculous business model relying on teenagers using their own power sources and figuring out how to easily scam the parent company.


OK ... so I was right on the money. Perhaps even slightly low.


"For performing this service, Bird pays Brandon, a contract worker, up to several hundred dollars a night. On one particularly successful night, Brandon brought home $600."

"The reward for capturing and charging these Birds can range from $5 to $20 depending on how difficult the Bird is to locate—and some can be really hard to find."

And the article goes on to explain how to get the $20 ... or more.



My $30/hour over, let's say, and 8 hour period is only $240. Next time TP asks this question, I'll double my estimate.
Machka is offline  
Old 01-28-19, 12:29 PM
  #24  
Mobile 155
Senior Member
 
Mobile 155's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: So Cal
Posts: 4,948

Bikes: 72-76 Peugeot, 89 Klein Quantum Road Bike, 2013 Haro FL Comp 29er MTB.

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1374 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Damn, forced me to look up dockless scooters...

Here's an article from The Atlantic https://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...siness/560747/

What a ridiculous business model relying on teenagers using their own power sources and figuring out how to easily scam the parent company.

That link was one of the more entertaining reads I have seen in a while. Better than a comic book. When the venture capital levels off the system is doomed.
Mobile 155 is offline  
Old 01-28-19, 04:24 PM
  #25  
badger1
Senior Member
 
badger1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 3,935
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 961 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
That link was one of the more entertaining reads I have seen in a while. Better than a comic book. When the venture capital levels off the system is doomed.
You see? This is the problem. You, like me, are (apparently) just another member of the Brigade of "the anti-LCF that like to throw their weight (and spit) around wherever ideas for car-free innovations dare to rear their heads."

Sad -- not. Why these latter-day variations on Ponzi schemes (for that is what they are) like Bird, Lime, and their ilk (not to mention Uber, Lyft etc.) are not recognized for what they are is beyond me.
badger1 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.