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Trek Checkpoint Tire Clearance Debacle - the plot thickens?!

Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Trek Checkpoint Tire Clearance Debacle - the plot thickens?!

Old 02-19-19, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
I try not to ride through mud, mainly so as not to damage trails. But the chain stays will scrape stuff off, too. It isn't the end of the world.
i dont ride a ton of gravel when its wet out, but having more than a credit card of clearance is needed for the gravel roads i ride even with its dry. Even just a small stone stuck in the tire tread would scape and scratch with that clearance.
One of my 80s road bikes had that small amount of clearance with conti gp 25mm tires thst measure 27. It seems dicey on a paved road bike.

the big difference here is riding dirt trails vs gravel roads.

obligatory wet gravel pic with 40mm tires on a frame that can fit 50mm...

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Old 02-19-19, 09:28 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
Erm. Why dont you measure your frame, instead of relying on Trek to tell you how much space is in there? I'm a bit confused.
You would understand if you actually used your gravel bike for anything other than the pristine marble road surfaces in Chicago.
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Old 02-19-19, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
i dont ride a ton of gravel when its wet out, but having more than a credit card of clearance is needed for the gravel roads i ride even with its dry. ...
OK, I guess there was a genuine misunderstanding here.

Wife has a road bike which I crammed in 38mm tires with essentially no clearance.

My gravel/road bike has the same tires with plenty of clearance (although maybe not 4mm).
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Old 02-19-19, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
As mentioned above, they put them back up sometime after 5:30 p.m. CST this evening. Apparently the same specs as yesterday. RIF
Sell the pansy-arse Trek with the anorexic tires and ill-designed plastic frame and get a real off-road bike with 2.8" wide tires.








clearance
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Old 02-19-19, 10:06 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
They revised their web page by taking it off line for 2 hours and then they put it back.
Oh, they must have learned this technique from Shimano.

https://weightweenies.starbike.com/f...f=113&t=143554


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Old 02-19-19, 10:19 PM
  #31  
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Well, fortunately the frame is made of carbon fiber, so one can increase the clearance just by melting and re-forming the carbon. A little bit of acetone goes a long way.
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Old 02-19-19, 10:21 PM
  #32  
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I looked at the Revolt this weekend and it's full of proprietary crap in areas that baffled me. The seatpost is in the shape of a triangle so you can only use that specific one.

Their $2800 model comes with mechanical brifters going to this bulgy thing in the middle of your bar that has a hydro reservoir going to the calipers. Whats the point of that?

None of the big guys can seem to make a regular bike that just happens to take big tires.

Even the new SuperX can take a huge tire but you need a wheel that has to be redished for a special offset.

Then Salsa doesn't know how to make a fork apparently.

Specialized makes a suspension system that can get filled with water easily and wreck havoc.
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Old 02-19-19, 10:34 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
You would understand if you actually used your gravel bike for anything other than the pristine marble road surfaces in Chicago.
I would understand why someone wouldnt want to measure a frame to see how much clearance they have, if I rode on gravel? I think I'm going to need some help with this...
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Old 02-19-19, 11:31 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
I would understand why someone wouldnt want to measure a frame to see how much clearance they have, if I rode on gravel? I think I'm going to need some help with this...
Sorry, you are an innocent bystander caught in the deployment of sarcasm in defensive response to an idiotic/inane accusation.

(Also, having grown up in Chicago, I know what the roads are really like.)
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Old 02-19-19, 11:40 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
Sorry, you are an innocent bystander caught in the deployment of sarcasm in defensive response to an idiotic/inane accusation.

(Also, having grown up in Chicago, I know what the roads are really like.)
Haha sorry, generally I'm the dick making sarcastic comments. Usually it doesnt fly over my head like that

This whole gripe about Trek not knowing how much extra space they want to recommend for tires is a bit wierd though. Are bizzare gripes like this commonplace amongst gravelly type folks?

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Old 02-19-19, 11:45 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
This whole gripe about Trek not knowing how much extra space they want to recommend for tires is a bit wierd though. Are bizzare gripes like this commonplace amongst gravelly type folks?
Only the real ones who ride in mud puddles in Kansas.
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Old 02-20-19, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
I would understand why someone wouldnt want to measure a frame to see how much clearance they have, if I rode on gravel? I think I'm going to need some help with this...
So I take it when you go to a store to look at a bike you take some calipers with you to measure the chainstay width?
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Old 02-20-19, 01:20 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post
So I take it when you go to a store to look at a bike you take some calipers with you to measure the chainstay width?
I should think a $1 ruler should suffice. Maybe spring for a decent $10 tape measure if clearance is your main sticking point with bikes. Either seems a heck of a lot better option than guessing.

I mean...if you're the kind of person thats going to have an emotional breakdown during dirty kanza when you find out your bike doesnt have 55mm between chainstays....perhaps it would be sensible to, say, measure the chainstay width before you buy it? Maybe i'm just a bit nuts...

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Old 02-20-19, 01:45 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
I should think a $1 ruler should suffice. Maybe spring for a decent $10 tape measure if clearance is your main sticking point with bikes. Either seems a heck of a lot better option than guessing.

I mean...if you're the kind of person thats going to have an emotional breakdown during dirty kanza when you find out your bike doesnt have 55mm between chainstays....perhaps it would be sensible to, say, measure the chainstay width before you buy it? Maybe i'm just a bit nuts...
Good to know that product specifications don't mean anything to you. I bet vendors just love selling you stuff.
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Old 02-20-19, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post
Good to know that product specifications don't mean anything to you. I bet vendors just love selling you stuff.
Are you saying Trek specified distance between chainstays a certain distance from the hub on their website?
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Old 02-20-19, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
Are you saying Trek specified distance between chainstays a certain distance from the hub on their website?
A bike is advertised in the specifications as being able to use up to an xx size tire. Customer buys said bike because of this. Couple months down the line customer is ready to put on the tires which the specifications said it could take at time of purchase. Customer finds out that the bike cannot actually take that tire size. They call the company and ask what's going on, the company decides to change the specifications and tells them that bike actually can't take that tire but really a tire size 10mm narrower unless they use a very specific tire and even then it's still not the original max size tire.

You really don't see the issue with this? The point of having a max tire size in the specs is so as a consumer I don't have to go and put a ruler to a bike before I buy it. Point to me to one manufacturer that will list max tire size based on amount of chainstay clearance. Spoiler alert you won't find one. Trek advertised the checkpoint as a bike that can take up to a 45mm tire. The bike cannot take a 45mm tire at all. It can't even take a 40mm tire unless you use one single very specific tire.
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Old 02-20-19, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post
A bike is advertised in the specifications as being able to use up to an xx size tire. Customer buys said bike because of this. Couple months down the line customer is ready to put on the tires which the specifications said it could take at time of purchase. Customer finds out that the bike cannot actually take that tire size. They call the company and ask what's going on, the company decides to change the specifications and tells them that bike actually can't take that tire but really a tire size 10mm narrower unless they use a very specific tire and even then it's still not the original max size tire.

You really don't see the issue with this? The point of having a max tire size in the specs is so as a consumer I don't have to go and put a ruler to a bike before I buy it. Point to me to one manufacturer that will list max tire size based on amount of chainstay clearance. Spoiler alert you won't find one. Trek advertised the checkpoint as a bike that can take up to a 45mm tire. The bike cannot take a 45mm tire at all. It can't even take a 40mm tire unless you use one single very specific tire.
You seem to have a bit of a disconnect here. A mm is a mm. It doesn't change based on Treks definition of how much extra space then think a tire should have. If ONE 45mm tire will fit in between the chainstays, every single 45mm tire on the planet will fit in between the chainstays. If it doesn't fit, it's not a 45mm tire. This isn't rocket science.

And...if you don't want to bother with measuring between chainstays.....then you really shouldn't be complaining when you find out you don't have the amount of space in there you thought you might have, except you didn't measure, and nobody ever actually even TOLD you how much was iin there.

Further...I just really don't believe for a second that a Checkpoint can't get a 40mm tire in there. (I find claims that it won't fit a 45mm tire a bit dubious as well...but seeing as how I don't have one, I won't comment...). I have a Focus Mares cyclocross bike. I've got a 40mm tire in the back right now, with PLENTY of room to spare. 45mm should go in without issue. I just really don't believe a Checkpoint has less room than my bike...

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Old 02-27-19, 10:28 AM
  #43  
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And the latest Trek spec is . . . 40mm but ONLY with a Bontrager tire IF you still have 4mm of clearance with that tire. Originally, these bikes didn't come with Bontrager tires, but now they do. If a Bontrager tire were a legitimate option, I would wonder how wide they measure, but they're not.

Bottom line: Not all gravel bikes have clearance for 45mm wide tires. If you need it for the gravel you do (not everyone does), you need something other than a Checkpoint. If you want to sneak up on 40mm wide, you need to take your tape measure and/or a set of mounted tires to your Trek dealer to see if the bike works for you. (I bought based on Trek's claim that it had plenty of room for 45mm tires, plus mud. That claim turned out to be false. Buyer beware.)
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Old 02-27-19, 11:21 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
You seem to have a bit of a disconnect here. A mm is a mm. It doesn't change based on Treks definition of how much extra space then think a tire should have. If ONE 45mm tire will fit in between the chainstays, every single 45mm tire on the planet will fit in between the chainstays. If it doesn't fit, it's not a 45mm tire. This isn't rocket science..
Except when manufacturers routinely sell tires that are 1 (or a few) mm smaller than the listed size so that they can say they're lighter than their competitors' tires of the same size. Happens all the time with roadie tires.
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Old 02-27-19, 11:43 AM
  #45  
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Almost every manufacturer gives at least an estimate of tire clearance.

It is difficult to believe that Trek doesn't know how much tire clearance the bike has. Trek knows exactly what they are doing and changing the spec repeatedly is dishonest.

Expressing frustration over it isn't a "bizarre gripe." Tire clearance is a major factor in choosing to buy one bike over another and many buy bikes online without seeing them first. We have to be able to trust the manufacturer's specs.

For the cost of bikes today, I expect better. Shame on Trek. This is another in a long list of reasons why I will never own a Trek or Bontrager product.


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Old 02-27-19, 12:43 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Almost every manufacturer gives at least an estimate of tire clearance.

It is difficult to believe that Trek doesn't know how much tire clearance the bike has. Trek knows exactly what they are doing and changing the spec repeatedly is dishonest.

Expressing frustration over it isn't a "bizarre gripe." Tire clearance is a major factor in choosing to buy one bike over another and many buy bikes online without seeing them first. We have to be able to trust the manufacturer's specs.

For the cost of bikes today, I expect better. Shame on Trek. This is another in a long list of reasons why I will never own a Trek or Bontrager product.


-Tim-
Except it IS a bizarre gripe.

I have yet to see a manufacturer actually list the specification related to tire clearance. Specifications in this area would look like "Smallest lateral distance from centerline of bike to nearest obstruction 350mm away from hub is 25mm. Shortest radial distance from center of hub to nearest obstruction: 800mm."

Instead, what you are looking at, and complaining about, is one particular manufacturers recommendation of how much clearance you should have in between a tire and the frame. Which will vary WILDLY,, and not really indicative of how much space the bike has relative to other bikes.
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Old 02-27-19, 01:20 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post

I have yet to see a manufacturer actually list the specification related to tire clearance. Specifications in this area would look like "Smallest lateral distance from centerline of bike to nearest obstruction 350mm away from hub is 25mm. Shortest radial distance from center of hub to nearest obstruction: 800mm."

Instead, what you are looking at, and complaining about, is one particular manufacturers recommendation of how much clearance you should have in between a tire and the frame. Which will vary WILDLY,, and not really indicative of how much space the bike has relative to other bikes.
Bingo.
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Old 02-27-19, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
Except it IS a bizarre gripe.

I have yet to see a manufacturer actually list the specification related to tire clearance. Specifications in this area would look like "Smallest lateral distance from centerline of bike to nearest obstruction 350mm away from hub is 25mm. Shortest radial distance from center of hub to nearest obstruction: 800mm."

Instead, what you are looking at, and complaining about, is one particular manufacturers recommendation of how much clearance you should have in between a tire and the frame. Which will vary WILDLY,, and not really indicative of how much space the bike has relative to other bikes.
You can't resist trolling, can you? Would you go troll somebody else's thread?
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Old 02-27-19, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
You can't resist trolling, can you? Would you go troll somebody else's thread?
Is what he said incorrect though? There is no "standard" for declaring max tire width, at least not that I know of. Heck, even tire manufacturers can't get their own tires labeled correctly. How is a frame manufacturer supposed to be able to??
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Old 02-27-19, 02:52 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
You can't resist trolling, can you? Would you go troll somebody else's thread?
Oh good grief, I'm just trying to help you out.

I mean, you do understand there is a difference between a manufacturer recommendation and an actual measurement taken with a measuring instrument, right?

45mm is 45mm. There is no wiggle room if we're talking about an actual distance.

A marketing statement saying "We recommend 45c tires" could mean practically anything.
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