Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Any Grail owners?

Old 02-19-19, 06:40 PM
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CodyDog
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Any Grail owners?

In my quest for the right gravel bike I have now been looking at the Canyon Grails. Both the Grail CF SL 8.0 Di2 (above what I wanted to spend) and the Grail CF SL 7.0. Both are in stock and can be shipped within 3 business days. A bit of some risk since I would be ordering without being able to test ride. The bike intrigues me, I actually like the look of the bars ( a lot of folks don't) as well as the rest of the bike.


Any good or bad experiences with the Grail and Canyon?


Thanks,

CodyDog
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Old 02-19-19, 09:38 PM
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Does the geometey work for you?

I considered their aluminum frame as it doesn't have the hover bar and comes in a size that fits me, but i didn't like the geometry and also disliked what wasnt listed for geometry.
Companies should readily list geomerty at this point, especially an online retailer, and the geometey chart should be complete.

it was a really intriguing brand though and if my arms were ape-like in length, I may have further considered it.
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Old 02-19-19, 10:06 PM
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what's the biggest 650b width that can fit ?
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Old 02-20-19, 07:45 AM
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I have a Grail CF SL Ultegra mech. It is without a doubt the best gravel bike I've ever ridden... Okay, so it's the only gravel bike I've ridden. But, I still like it a lot ;-)

I've been riding bikes for 45 years - BMX, MTB, road - and tend to buy more than I need (lots of carbon hanging in the garage), so I figured the ubiquitous carbon + 8000 level was right for my first gravel bike. I was somewhat uncomfortable spending $3,000 for a bike-in-a-box, but heard good things about Canyon's return/swap policies. The risk was really just time - waiting, assembling, disassembling, boxing, shipping, etc.

The https://www.bikeforums.net/cyclocros...-bike-day.html was great.

I was luke warm on the looks of the HoverBar, but the reviews (from guys who actually rode the bike) were unanimously positive. I love it. I've had the bike about nine months and (sadly) have ridden it off-road only a few times. I've got hundreds of miles on the street (2nd set of wheels with 28s) and it's by far my most comfortable bike. On the trail/gravel/dirt roads, it feels about as stable as my mountain bikes. I'm running 40s - the only limitation for the rough sloppy corners.

So yeah, I'm still a fan. Don't see how you can beat it for the money.
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Old 02-20-19, 07:24 PM
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I considered it for a little while but then ended up going with an Ibis Hakka MX. Didn't like that I couldn't see the bike before purchase... But it looks very nice!
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Old 02-21-19, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Does the geometey work for you?

I considered their aluminum frame as it doesn't have the hover bar and comes in a size that fits me, but i didn't like the geometry and also disliked what wasnt listed for geometry.
Companies should readily list geomerty at this point, especially an online retailer, and the geometey chart should be complete.

it was a really intriguing brand though and if my arms were ape-like in length, I may have further considered it.
it appears that the reach on this bike is pretty long compared to other gravel bikes ( 6cm more than Trek Checkpoint). Is that what you were referring to?

Last edited by CodyDog; 02-21-19 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 02-21-19, 10:58 AM
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I ordered two bikes (different size), and sent the one I didn't like back for a full refund. They paid for shipping both ways. Great customer service, and very risk free. Just cost me the time to unbox and rebox the bike (which isn't trivial). There are good videos on both though.

I ended up with a small, which I thought would be too small, but interestingly it probably fits me better than any bike I've had. Still, with that fixed stem - it has to fit you just right. Its about $400 to change the stem (and integrated bars).
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Old 02-21-19, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
I ordered two bikes (different size), and sent the one I didn't like back for a full refund. They paid for shipping both ways. Great customer service, and very risk free. Just cost me the time to unbox and rebox the bike (which isn't trivial). There are good videos on both though.

I ended up with a small, which I thought would be too small, but interestingly it probably fits me better than any bike I've had. Still, with that fixed stem - it has to fit you just right. Its about $400 to change the stem (and integrated bars).
Chas58: What is your height?

I'm 5'11" with a 33" inseam, arm length is 22", torso 26" and shoulders are 19". The Canyon sizing software for the Grail shows me fitting for a medium.
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Old 02-21-19, 03:11 PM
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I think the safest way to pick the right Canyon size is: If you ride a Large now, and the other bikes you've test ridden are Large... buy a Medium.

A friend of mine just got a Canyon. We played the Canyon software game - it recommend an XL... it was too big. He's on a Large now. All his other road bikes are XL. Clearly we didn't play the game correctly.
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Old 02-21-19, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by CodyDog View Post
Chas58: What is your height?

I'm 5'11" with a 33" inseam, arm length is 22", torso 26" and shoulders are 19". The Canyon sizing software for the Grail shows me fitting for a medium.
I think Zaskar may be right.

I'm 5'9" (177cm) with an 86cm inseam (pressed hard against my pelvic bone). Normally I ride a 54cm frame, but for Canyon (Inflite), I'm a small. The size chart for the grail and inflite looks to be the same.

Ideally I would have gotten a medium with a short stem, but since I got the Inflite the top tube was too high (and a shorter stem cost $400), so I kept the small. I've been quite happy with it, although the medium would be a little more stable and offered a little more stack. The small has a little less reach and a little less stack than I'm used to, but I love it. It fits well and is a ton of fun.

You can goof around with their calculator, but my height is the only thing that seemed to change the frame size for me.

I'm rather between sizes. I think you would be fine on the medium.
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Old 02-21-19, 04:16 PM
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I don't have a grail but I did purchase two RoadLite CF 9.0 LTD back last Dec. Canyon USA customer service was top notch IMHO. If interested you can read my thread about my purchase and follow up customer serrice. see https://www.bikeforums.net/hybrid-bi...roadlites.html
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Old 02-21-19, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
I think Zaskar may be right.

I'm 5'9" (177cm) with an 86cm inseam (pressed hard against my pelvic bone). Normally I ride a 54cm frame, but for Canyon (Inflite), I'm a small. The size chart for the grail and inflite looks to be the same.

Ideally I would have gotten a medium with a short stem, but since I got the Inflite the top tube was too high (and a shorter stem cost $400), so I kept the small. I've been quite happy with it, although the medium would be a little more stable and offered a little more stack. The small has a little less reach and a little less stack than I'm used to, but I love it. It fits well and is a ton of fun.

You can goof around with their calculator, but my height is the only thing that seemed to change the frame size for me.

I'm rather between sizes. I think you would be fine on the medium.
Chase58: Thanks for the response. I think I'm going to go the Canyon route. Now I need to decide which model of Grail.
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Old 02-21-19, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DowneasTTer View Post
I don't have a grail but I did purchase two RoadLite CF 9.0 LTD back last Dec. Canyon USA customer service was top notch IMHO. If interested you can read my thread about my purchase and follow up customer serrice. see https://www.bikeforums.net/hybrid-bi...roadlites.html
DowneasTTer:

Thanks for response and the link to your previous posting.
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Old 02-21-19, 06:45 PM
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though the Grail was in Ethiopia..
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Old 02-21-19, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by CodyDog View Post
it appears that the reach on this bike is pretty long compared to other gravel bikes ( 6cm more than Trek Checkpoint). Is that what you were referring to?
yes.
that, and the lack of comparable measurements like bottom bracket drop, fork rake, and trail. There is just no good reason to not list these, especially when they are an online retailer.
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Old 02-22-19, 01:03 PM
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It's not obvious how or where to pull a tape on the Grail with the HoverBar... I mean, there's no stem in the traditional configuration. If you measure to the center of the lower bar - yeah, it's a crazy long reach. It's the same as measuring to the apex of the drops. But if you pull a tape from centerline of the fork, it's fairly normal.

I measured three bikes this way - center of Seat Tube to center of Steer Tube
- 61cm Scott Addict SL = 60.5 CM
- 58cm Scott Foil = 56.5 CM
- XL Canyon Grail = 58.5 CM

That represents my overall fit findings too. It feels bigger than my XL Foil, but smaller than my XXL Addict. It's like an X .5X L... which would make a killer seat tube sticker.
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Old 02-23-19, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
yes.
that, and the lack of comparable measurements like bottom bracket drop, fork rake, and trail. There is just no good reason to not list these, especially when they are an online retailer.
Actually thanks to reach+ and stack+ measurement it is quite easy to emulate grail position on your current bike. Just use bike geo net calculator to establish your current stack and reach with stem and spacer and then change the handlebar height to archive similar stack to grail. Then just move your saddle to get similar reach (assuming you have properly set the the saddle position on your current bike) and viola. From my experiments grail brings much lower and rather shorter position in S size and very long position in M size. Both not for my liking. And there is the issue of standover height: I currently ride 54 size jamis renegade exploit with generous standover clearance. Size S of grail has a standover height over 80 cm and M size is over 83 cm. If you have a inseam 83,5 cm like I am there is no way you will feel good on M size Grail which is by the way recommended size for me by Canyon.
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Old 02-23-19, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by sweetspot View Post
Actually thanks to reach+ and stack+ measurement it is quite easy to emulate grail position on your current bike. Just use bike geo net calculator to establish your current stack and reach with stem and spacer and then change the handlebar height to archive similar stack to grail. Then just move your saddle to get similar reach (assuming you have properly set the the saddle position on your current bike) and viola. From my experiments grail brings much lower and rather shorter position in S size and very long position in M size. Both not for my liking. And there is the issue of standover height: I currently ride 54 size jamis renegade exploit with generous standover clearance. Size S of grail has a standover height over 80 cm and M size is over 83 cm. If you have a inseam 83,5 cm like I am there is no way you will feel good on M size Grail which is by the way recommended size for me by Canyon.
yes stack+ and reach+ are listed for the grail, I agree. I didn't mention those measurements when I listed the geometry that is absent from their website.
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Old 02-23-19, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
yes.
that, and the lack of comparable measurements like bottom bracket drop, fork rake, and trail. There is just no good reason to not list these, especially when they are an online retailer.
Good point.

Our oldest son is interested, but it feels like a bit of a crap shoot.

We contacted Canyon directly, so we'll see where this goes.
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Old 02-24-19, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by gomango View Post
Good point.

Our oldest son is interested, but it feels like a bit of a crap shoot.

We contacted Canyon directly, so we'll see where this goes.
I'm going to call Canyon tomorrow and see if I can obtain the missing dimension as well.
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Old 02-24-19, 02:10 PM
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Guys, don't think of buying, assembling, test fitting/riding, disassembling, boxing, shipping as too big of an obstacle. Canyon does a ridiculously good job packing these bikes. Assembly is super easy. And, if you pay attention - or label/take pics - putting it all back in the box isn't hard at all. You'll spend more time researching, measuring, comparing, wondering... than un- and re-boxing.

Roll. The. Dice.
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Old 02-24-19, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
Roll. The. Dice.
true.
...but there is also the issue of canyon being out of stock on every size of the Grail SO for months now with no listed in stock date.
tough to try a bike that isnt available for months with no known end in sight.

it's a pretty solid return policy- agreed.
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Old 02-24-19, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
true.
...but there is also the issue of canyon being out of stock on every size of the Grail SO for months now with no listed in stock date.
tough to try a bike that isnt available for months with no known end in sight..
Well yeah... that is somewhat of a big factor.
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