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Training for Racing All Disciplines

Masters Racing (All Disciplines) Race on the track or road or on your mountainbike in the Masters Category? Want to talk tactics, strategy and training with your peers?

Training for Racing All Disciplines

Old 02-26-18, 07:40 PM
  #10676  
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@Hermes, I have no intention of not being able to see on the road. In the position in the pic, Iím looking down the hallway and can see fairly far ahead. The eyes are looking up while the head is down.

Riding that way & maintaining a good head position on the road is of course a different matter that getting your head into position on a stationary trainer. This is not an ďEROĒ position per se, itís an evolution from my ERO position. Weíll see where things shake out over time, I think the optimal TT position for an individual is something of a moving target anyway.
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Old 02-26-18, 08:16 PM
  #10677  
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You're tempting me to sign up for an aero session at VSC. Along with a bike fit (been a while).
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Old 02-27-18, 09:22 AM
  #10678  
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@Heathpack IMO, your position in the photo is perfect from a frontal area perspective. Drag force CdA is equal to the frontal area in meters squared (A) times a dimensionless number Cd: the drag coefficient. So your pic has your head even with your shoulders which are rounded - perfect. I would assume that you had whatever visibility you had and you thought it was sufficient.

My comment was about me. Forward visibility is about structure of the skull and how far ones eyes are set back, helmet design, eyelid droop (mine are droopy) and neck flexibility to name a few.

If I am riding around on the TT bike training and going fast i.e. flat versus climbing, I tend to set the bars up and go for less neck strain and greater visibility. For racing on the track by myself or in team events, I go for best aero and take a little neck strain.

What is interesting is that I jacked my neck riding my road bike on Santiago Canyon trying to go lower in the drops and faster. The pain hung around for about 6 months.

Ideally, I should train as I race for maximum strength and adaptation.
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Old 02-27-18, 09:26 AM
  #10679  
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Originally Posted by sarals View Post
You're tempting me to sign up for an aero session at VSC. Along with a bike fit (been a while).
I think that is a great idea. My suggestion is to go ASAP so that you have several weeks to adapt to any position changes before worlds.
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Old 02-27-18, 09:47 AM
  #10680  
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@Hermes, this position stuff for me is just a process. Make a change, adapt, stretch stretch stretch, make another change, adapt, stretch stretch stretch. We’ll see where it goes.

My workout today went pretty well. I had a couple of 5 min hard intervals @ 115%. Missed on the second one but being in the ballpark a few days after the position change is good enough I think. Then a longer threshold interval which I essentially made, if you factor out the power drops from slow turns on account it wet roads.

Observations:
1. New position almost seems more powerful. I feel like I’m getting better leg extension and using more quads. I’m not sure I understand that, I’ll have to think it through. Might be a false impression too, it might just feel different.
2. Despite feeling more powerful, that power fades quickly. We’ll see what happens with adaptation.
3. Either way, pleasantly surprised that it doesn’t feel miserable
4. It was very cold out, in the low 30s, and damp. Weirdly I felt fine, not chilled at all. I have good warm gear.
5. I cannot see forward down the road with the low head position (as pictured above) with my everyday road helmet. The road helmet comes down too far on my forehead and has a little peak on the brim, which obscures vision with the head tucked low. It’s no issue to see with my head lifted a little and already this does not make my neck nearly as sore as it did just a few days ago. I think this is an instance where a little TT trainer time is called for. Train up the head/neck position sans helmet. Then try a little trainer work with the TT helmet (which sits way higher on my forehead and has generally great visibility). I am reluctant to train too much on open roads with the TT helmet because of its inferior crash protection. But I’ll have to do a little, maybe some bike path work during the desolate times of the day.
6. I’m thinking of having Mr. H carve me a styrofoam form that we can hang above the trainer. Something narrow so that I can sit up and easily swing it to one side. But enough to remind me of where the aero head position should be, and pick a spot to look at that corresponds to where I’d be looking if looking down the road.
7. Once I get to the point where I can ride with the head position at race intensity and decent duration, then head back for a follow up aero test. I expect this will take me a long time, possibly months. Patience.

Tomorrow I think I have some big gear work on the TT bike. Probably will pull out the trainer.

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Old 02-27-18, 01:26 PM
  #10681  
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In golf, keeping ones head at the same elevation throughout a complicated swing is essential to good ball striking. The pro teacher I was using told me that when he was a junior his father would grab him by the hair to keep his head from not moving up or down. The head may move laterally and up after ball contact and divot.

@Heathpack An idea for you is to have Mr H sit next to the trainer with a stick and watch your head. If your head moves, he taps you on the top of the head with the stick.
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Old 02-27-18, 08:43 PM
  #10682  
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
I think that is a great idea. My suggestion is to go ASAP so that you have several weeks to adapt to any position changes before worlds.
I'm thinking April. I'd like to plan a block of training at VSC then, working with Coach to sort things out (he's pretty busy right now). I'd like to include a fit and possibly some aero testing at that time.
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Old 02-28-18, 11:12 AM
  #10683  
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Spent some quality time with my TT bike on the trainer today.


I have decided I need a video set up so I can review position while pedaling various types of efforts.


Nutso.
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Old 02-28-18, 01:13 PM
  #10684  
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Originally Posted by Heathpack View Post
Spent some quality time with my TT bike on the trainer today.


I have decided I need a video set up so I can review position while pedaling various types of efforts.


Nutso.
No. Dedicated!
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Old 02-28-18, 02:09 PM
  #10685  
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
I If your head moves, he taps you on the top of the head with the stick.
This is the same technique, for a slightly different purpose, that my Zen teacher employed using a Keisaku.
Highly effective.

-Bandera
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Old 03-01-18, 10:23 AM
  #10686  
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Tuesday, Mount Soledad 4x5 minute VO2 efforts and yesterday Fiesta Island - sprinters warmup plus two jumps then 20 minutes low cadence intervals in the drops followed by 20 minutes of tempo.

@Heathpack Maybe MacGyver can rig video cam on the minivan and follow you streaming video to your mobile phone on your bike so that you can see pictures of yourself as you ride.
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Old 03-01-18, 11:07 AM
  #10687  
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Yesterday, 5 sprint efforts, rolling start, shut down after twenty seconds, 50/17 on the road bike. Power was underwhelming, about 80 watts shy. Then, 5 X 1 minute over/unders. I think I'm tired.

Today, off day.

The NorCal racing scene is getting into full swing. I miss it. I wanna go racing. My work schedule conflicts with LAVRA, at least so far, and we aren't racing at Hellyer, yet. Patience, old Jedi....
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Old 03-01-18, 11:37 AM
  #10688  
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NorCal racing is looking weak. Madera was canceled. The reason is poor registration.
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Old 03-01-18, 03:29 PM
  #10689  
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I did a warm up on the TT bike, then a little strength/core work. My glutes are sore. Stretching after.


I went to the website for the Madera Stage Race. Wow the promoter seems organized and straightforward, good at communicating.


But... nothing about that website fills me with pangs of regret that I'm not racing that stage race.


Unlike this site, doing everything right. It kills me that I can't make one of these events all year:


https://www.thisisroam.com/roamretreats
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Old 03-01-18, 05:51 PM
  #10690  
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Threshold climbing today. I did 3 out of 5 climbs up Soledad Mountain. The other two are too steep for me at this point. I did 26 minutes of threshold and 3.5 minutes of VO2 among other zones but my goal was threshold climbing. It was a nice day in La Jolla but a little windy. Tomorrow and Saturday we get rain and colder temps.
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Old 03-02-18, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
NorCal racing is looking weak. Madera was canceled. The reason is poor registration.
I know. Madera was to be the kick off for the Masters Women 35+ and 55+ Series for 2018. After all of the moaning and groaning from "some" of the 35+ women over the last couple of years about "bringing back a series for us", we do it, and very few sign up. That's a bit of a punch to the gut.
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Old 03-02-18, 01:06 PM
  #10692  
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Madera was a fun race and one of the few stage races around. I did it twice but decided after 6 laps through the rough road sections, my back had enough. When I raced fields filled quickly and we had 500 to 600 racers.

I guess we could debate why racers do not pre-register, make other racing choices or quit racing. And why racing does not attract new entrants.

I have a very simple no conspiracy theory - lack of promotion. There is insufficient promotion to drive new entrants to try the sport and fuel more interest in those that do.

I put that fact at the feet of professional racing, sponsors, endorsements and etc. Other sports have professional men and women stars that draw public attention and endorse products. Cycling has very few and our men flat out suck.

I was at a bar and on one screen was World Championship Track Racing. I watched team sprint and team pursuit. There were no american teams. I suspect the US women are there but who knows.

Who is the the USA men's star cyclist? What products does he endorse? Does anyone ride his bicycle? Do we see him on TV?

Also, I do not favor the conspiracy theory that somehow racing is not welcoming enough. It has never been welcoming and has always been full of a-holes. The same is true of golf, tennis, skiing, football, basketball and etc. If it were more welcoming, that would be great but cycling needs a promotion machine to motivate the un-motivated to try it. If new entrants meet nothing but a-holes and have a bad experience then I could see that being a problem.

I do not have a solution just making an observation. Me personally, I accept competitive sports for what they are and try to have a great time training and participating.

If racing dies, I will charge up Torrey Pines hill or do a 500 at the track and post my times and write a race report.
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Old 03-02-18, 02:04 PM
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Good stuff, @Hermes. Salient points, for sure.

The USA women have done well at Worlds, BTW. You're right about the men....
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Old 03-02-18, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by sarals View Post
I know. Madera was to be the kick off for the Masters Women 35+ and 55+ Series for 2018. After all of the moaning and groaning from "some" of the 35+ women over the last couple of years about "bringing back a series for us", we do it, and very few sign up. That's a bit of a punch to the gut.
The promoter on the website said that womenís registrations were up actually.
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Old 03-02-18, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Heathpack View Post
The promoter on the website said that womenís registrations were up actually.
Not for the 35+. 55+ were, as were 3/4/5.
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Old 03-02-18, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sarals View Post
Not for the 35+. 55+ were, as were 3/4/5.
Oh.

Kids these days.
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Old 03-03-18, 09:56 AM
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I am looking at the weather and debating inside versus outside. The forecast was for more rain but it appears that the rain may stay north of La Jolla / Del Mar. Although it is pretty yekky out.

I am leaning toward a multi set of 30 on 30 off on the trainer since I did VO2 and threshold climbing and big gear at Fiesta and tempo already this week. I find highly structured workouts easier to execute on the trainer versus the road.
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Old 03-03-18, 03:06 PM
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I rode some Openers between bands of rain this morning. Piru 20K ITT tomorrow.

This is only my 3rd or 4th ride on the road with the new position. Although I can see down the road with the new head position, I definitely canít see far enough to really be happy with it. Iíll have to get some pics while riding and try to troubleshoot it a bit. Going to see fitter next Sat for a follow up/brainstorming session.

On the fence about actually racing tomorrow. Thereís an appealing group ride in the morning, great route. I have to get up earlier for the race and weíll be out late tomorrow at a concert. Iíll burn more calories on the ride. It will be more scenic and social.

But: The race will give me some invaluable data points. And take overall less time.

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Old 03-03-18, 03:22 PM
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Warmup and 2X21' on the trainer. This was a Roger's Session style VSC workout using his z system 2' z1 1' z2 1'z3 1'z2 1'z3' 1'z2 20"z4 repeat 3 times rest and do it again.

I do it as a fixed gear exercise and pick a gear that works throughout the 21 minutes and generate power by changing cadence. With so many change in cadence and time, the intervals go really fast.
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Old 03-05-18, 10:27 AM
  #10700  
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Sunday, two hour endurance ride along the coast. It was a cool day with moderate crosswinds.
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