Carbon wheels for mere mortals
#126
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Lets jerk some more.
Ive found that super light wheels “feel” so much faster than heavier wheels. Even when the clock doesn’t justify the feeling.
So if we’re talking about a theoretical cyclist who has an unlimited budget but does not have a person to finish ahead of. What is going to make this dude happier. Ultra light or aero?
Ive found that super light wheels “feel” so much faster than heavier wheels. Even when the clock doesn’t justify the feeling.
So if we’re talking about a theoretical cyclist who has an unlimited budget but does not have a person to finish ahead of. What is going to make this dude happier. Ultra light or aero?
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i mean seriously, if someone puts the work and commitment in to hammer away at a course hundreds of times, gradually improving their fitness, form, equpiment... or rides longer and longer distances unsupported, seeing new places and meeting new people, or any other way they choose to vigorously enjoy the sport regardless of the presence of other riders to draft with or race against, who are you to say they're a poser? it's no wonder so many people think cyclists are dicks.
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#128
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i mean seriously, if someone puts the work and commitment in to hammer away at a course hundreds of times, gradually improving their fitness, form, equpiment... or rides longer and longer distances unsupported, seeing new places and meeting new people, or any other way they choose to vigorously enjoy the sport regardless of the presence of other riders to draft with or race against,
Note that I'm not telling anyone how to spend their money -- in fact, in the "biggest wastes of money" thread, I pushed back the hardest on the notion that anyone should tell anyone else how to spend their own cash. If people want to buy fancy high-end cycling equipment to go out on solo rides and never ever race, have at it. Most of us are ego-driven in so much of our consumption, from the clothes we wear to the autos we drive to the jewelry we strap onto ourselves-- so why not ride bikes that make us seem 'cool'? Just don't fool yourself into believing that there's some instrumental reason for it -- especially if you never pin on a number.
#129
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Oh, come on, it is a bit silly when you think about it. We've done enough arguing on this forum to know that shaving even seemingly large amounts of mass from a bike will have a trivial effect on speed in most circumstances, and even spending big money on aero equipment (e.g., wheels) will have an effect that is pretty much imperceptible when combined with larger factors like wind, terrain, rest level, etc. We're talking about thousands of dollars worth of equipment saving a few seconds on a typical ride -- if that much. I mean, it barely makes sense even for an amateur who's entering lots of races; for a person who's doing recreational solo rides, it just makes me smile and shake my head.
Note that I'm not telling anyone how to spend their money -- in fact, in the "biggest wastes of money" thread, I pushed back the hardest on the notion that anyone should tell anyone else how to spend their own cash. If people want to buy fancy high-end cycling equipment to go out on solo rides and never ever race, have at it. Most of us are ego-driven in so much of our consumption, from the clothes we wear to the autos we drive to the jewelry we strap onto ourselves-- so why not ride bikes that make us seem 'cool'? Just don't fool yourself into believing that there's some instrumental reason for it -- especially if you never pin on a number.
Note that I'm not telling anyone how to spend their money -- in fact, in the "biggest wastes of money" thread, I pushed back the hardest on the notion that anyone should tell anyone else how to spend their own cash. If people want to buy fancy high-end cycling equipment to go out on solo rides and never ever race, have at it. Most of us are ego-driven in so much of our consumption, from the clothes we wear to the autos we drive to the jewelry we strap onto ourselves-- so why not ride bikes that make us seem 'cool'? Just don't fool yourself into believing that there's some instrumental reason for it -- especially if you never pin on a number.
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#130
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2) Do you really believe that your aesthetic preferences ("I enjoy their look") are your own, that they arose in a vacuum? That they were not influenced by marketing, peer effects, the choices of pro cyclists? Really? If so, your lack of self-awareness makes you a marketer's dream. It also means that, like most people, you are ignorant of a vast academic literature (much of it empirical) on the topic.
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1) Why does the virtually imperceptible increase in performance matter to you?
2) Do you really believe that your aesthetic preferences ("I enjoy their look") are your own, that they arose in a vacuum? That they were not influenced by marketing, peer effects, the choices of pro cyclists? Really? If so, your lack of self-awareness makes you a marketer's dream. It also means that, like most people, you are ignorant of a vast academic literature (much of it empirical) on the topic.
2) Do you really believe that your aesthetic preferences ("I enjoy their look") are your own, that they arose in a vacuum? That they were not influenced by marketing, peer effects, the choices of pro cyclists? Really? If so, your lack of self-awareness makes you a marketer's dream. It also means that, like most people, you are ignorant of a vast academic literature (much of it empirical) on the topic.
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(Note that I'm not claiming any superiority on this. For anyone to claim to be uninfluenced by society's expectations and norms is to deny the very meaning of the word "society.")
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1) Why does the virtually imperceptible increase in performance matter to you?
2) Do you really believe that your aesthetic preferences ("I enjoy their look") are your own, that they arose in a vacuum? That they were not influenced by marketing, peer effects, the choices of pro cyclists? Really? If so, your lack of self-awareness makes you a marketer's dream. It also means that, like most people, you are ignorant of a vast academic literature (much of it empirical) on the topic.
2) Do you really believe that your aesthetic preferences ("I enjoy their look") are your own, that they arose in a vacuum? That they were not influenced by marketing, peer effects, the choices of pro cyclists? Really? If so, your lack of self-awareness makes you a marketer's dream. It also means that, like most people, you are ignorant of a vast academic literature (much of it empirical) on the topic.
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I do prefer lighter bikes and wheels in general. They seem to be quicker to accelerate and climb, and generally not as stiff. If I every bought a new carbon bike again, it would be a 14-15 lb Specialized Aethos or something similar but I am quite content with my heavy-ish Ti bike since it has light wheels. Still, I find myself slowly being drawn into weight-weenieism. Luckily, my BMC is around 16 lbs so I would not gain much by going to sub 15.
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#137
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Oh, come on, it is a bit silly when you think about it. We've done enough arguing on this forum to know that shaving even seemingly large amounts of mass from a bike will have a trivial effect on speed in most circumstances, and even spending big money on aero equipment (e.g., wheels) will have an effect that is pretty much imperceptible when combined with larger factors like wind, terrain, rest level, etc. We're talking about thousands of dollars worth of equipment saving a few seconds on a typical ride -- if that much. I mean, it barely makes sense even for an amateur who's entering lots of races; for a person who's doing recreational solo rides, it just makes me smile and shake my head.
Note that I'm not telling anyone how to spend their money -- in fact, in the "biggest wastes of money" thread, I pushed back the hardest on the notion that anyone should tell anyone else how to spend their own cash. If people want to buy fancy high-end cycling equipment to go out on solo rides and never ever race, have at it. Most of us are ego-driven in so much of our consumption, from the clothes we wear to the autos we drive to the jewelry we strap onto ourselves-- so why not ride bikes that make us seem 'cool'? Just don't fool yourself into believing that there's some instrumental reason for it -- especially if you never pin on a number.
Note that I'm not telling anyone how to spend their money -- in fact, in the "biggest wastes of money" thread, I pushed back the hardest on the notion that anyone should tell anyone else how to spend their own cash. If people want to buy fancy high-end cycling equipment to go out on solo rides and never ever race, have at it. Most of us are ego-driven in so much of our consumption, from the clothes we wear to the autos we drive to the jewelry we strap onto ourselves-- so why not ride bikes that make us seem 'cool'? Just don't fool yourself into believing that there's some instrumental reason for it -- especially if you never pin on a number.
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#138
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Do you really believe that your aesthetic preferences ("I enjoy their look") are your own, that they arose in a vacuum? That they were not influenced by marketing, peer effects, the choices of pro cyclists? Really? If so, your lack of self-awareness makes you a marketer's dream. It also means that, like most people, you are ignorant of a vast academic literature (much of it empirical) on the topic.
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The question you've posed is always worth asking, in my opinion. Especially in the context of the thread's original post -- which was so long ago that most have probably now forgotten!
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Are there carbon wheels out there that don't make any noise? Do they come with silent hubs? Not asking for a friend.
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I think my post, which has inspired some argument, did qualify my comments as applying to those who are doing solo recreational rides -- i.e., not even doing spirited group rides and such. So I do understand your point. And I can allow that even solo rides can include performance goals...During Covid, when most races weren't happening, I got into going after Strava KOMs as a way to keep sharp and motivated.
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#143
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I think my post, which has inspired some argument, did qualify my comments as applying to those who are doing solo recreational rides -- i.e., not even doing spirited group rides and such. So I do understand your point. And I can allow that even solo rides can include performance goals...During Covid, when most races weren't happening, I got into going after Strava KOMs as a way to keep sharp and motivated.
The question you've posed is always worth asking, in my opinion. Especially in the context of the thread's original post -- which was so long ago that most have probably now forgotten!
EDIT: Appearance preferences can also be influenced by - for lack of a better term - "tribalism". Especially when I was new to the roadie scene after years of being only a MTB'er, I wanted to fit in on group rides I was new to, so I wore the same/similar kit to what others were wearing, rather than the MTB team kit I would usually wear in the dirt (also "tribally" influenced). I suppose this could apply to bikes, as well. People may well be influenced in the bike/gear choices by what they see around them, especially if they participate in group events. I wouldn't characterize any of this as being a "poser". As this young rider gained experience, and tried different things, I figured out what works best for me and what doesn't, and make my decisions based on my own parameters...but we all had to start somewhere. I'm going though some of that again with gravel riding. I'm looking at what the top pros are using and how they have their bikes set up. I'm talking to other riders about their preferences and experiences (thank you for your input, in that regard) so that I can improve my own learning curve. I'm experimenting and figuring out what I like...and what I don't.
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#144
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I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say...but I did write this:
So far, Eric F is the only person to respond with substance; other responses have been vitriolic. I find that rather telling.
So far, Eric F is the only person to respond with substance; other responses have been vitriolic. I find that rather telling.
you made a statement, now you’re trying to walk it back because it’s so clearly ignorant and narrow minded.
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It's my understanding that Big Carbon Wheel demands that all carbon wheels will be built only with obnoxiously loud freehubs. If you record the sound of a freehub on a carbon wheel, and slow the recording down enough, you can hear that it's actually saying the words, "Look at me! Look at me!"
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It's my understanding that Big Carbon Wheel demands that all carbon wheels will be built only with obnoxiously loud freehubs. If you record the sound of a freehub on a carbon wheel, and slow the recording down enough, you can hear that it's actually saying the words, "Look at me! Look at me!"
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First, I'm pretty sure a cardiologist can afford fancy wheels and braces for his kid.
Second, I do get your point. I find it pretty funny every time a poster asks whether this or that little bit of equipment will make him a little bit faster, and there is no mention of racing or even challenging group rides. There's a word for such riders, and it rhymes with 'hoser.'
FWIW, as far as equipment goes, I find the most noticeable difference comes from my jersey choice: going from a comfy merino wool club fit jersey to a proper aero (but still comfy, if it's a good one) jersey actually IS noticeable, at least to me. But I guess a great jersey isn't as exciting (to most riders) as a bling wheelset.
Second, I do get your point. I find it pretty funny every time a poster asks whether this or that little bit of equipment will make him a little bit faster, and there is no mention of racing or even challenging group rides. There's a word for such riders, and it rhymes with 'hoser.'
FWIW, as far as equipment goes, I find the most noticeable difference comes from my jersey choice: going from a comfy merino wool club fit jersey to a proper aero (but still comfy, if it's a good one) jersey actually IS noticeable, at least to me. But I guess a great jersey isn't as exciting (to most riders) as a bling wheelset.
Last edited by Koyote; 04-25-23 at 02:47 PM.
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Incorrect. Here is the full post; note the "poser" comment along with the snippet about group rides -- in the same post.
I'm not walking anything back. It was all right there. But you seem to have grossly misread my post: I have not "labeled anyone who doesn’t race or ride in groups a poser." If you cannot understand the difference between that statement, and what I actually wrote, then that may explain your anger.
I'm not walking anything back. It was all right there. But you seem to have grossly misread my post: I have not "labeled anyone who doesn’t race or ride in groups a poser." If you cannot understand the difference between that statement, and what I actually wrote, then that may explain your anger.
…a poster asks whether this or that little bit of equipment will make him a little bit faster, and there is no mention of racing or even challenging group rides. There's a word for such riders, and it rhymes with 'hoser.
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You originally included the qualifier of someone asking about equipment that will make them faster. Regardless, I still strongly disagree with your characterization. Going fast is fun. Girls just wanna have fun. So do MAMILs.
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At least now you seem to understand my post -- now that you've 'walked back' your claim in post #144.