For the love of English 3 speeds...
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Thanks, though. I'm thinking I will save that for a winter project. Building a wheel is still a new process to me - I've only done two successfully, and they needed re-truing within a week.
But right now the 1949 Raleigh Clubman is back in the workstand. I know I explained this project in an earlier post here, but now I'm getting close to completion. Photos coming soon...
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For my Rudge Aero Special return to road build (or after), I've been daydreaming about supplementing the gear range of a Sturmey AW, FW, or FM with some kind of derailleur to add range for local hilly roads. My question is managing chain wrap. If I could go maybe 46/30 or 46/36 in the front, I'd need to wrap 10 or 16 teeth. I have talked here about using an old Cyclo chain tension arm (attached to a bracket under the chainstay), which looks like it is the main part of an old Cyclo Standard. to do this. But the length of the arm is about 2.75," and if it pivoted a full 180 degrees it could shorten the chain by a maximum of twice its length, 5.5 inches, which would barely give 10 teeth of chain wrap. While I don't like this result, I think the reasoning makes sense.
So it indicates I can't get a big, near-modern chain wrap without a modern long cage arm.
I think I would have the same issue if I was going with a supplemental rear derailleur. Here I'd want to use at least a rear double with a 17/26 dual cog block, needing a 9-tooth wrap, about the same.
If this is true, you can't really have a deep granny (30 gear inches or so) with vintage components, due to the short swing arm at least on a Cyclo Standard. Does this seem right?
So it indicates I can't get a big, near-modern chain wrap without a modern long cage arm.
I think I would have the same issue if I was going with a supplemental rear derailleur. Here I'd want to use at least a rear double with a 17/26 dual cog block, needing a 9-tooth wrap, about the same.
If this is true, you can't really have a deep granny (30 gear inches or so) with vintage components, due to the short swing arm at least on a Cyclo Standard. Does this seem right?
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Keep in mind modern chain wrap has a lot to do with modern chains.
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Thinking about that Trek 410 and seat tube angle. For that large frame (24-inch/61 cm seat tube) a 71 degree seat tube angle like the Raleighs would bring the seat back .8 inches. Is that a lot?
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Speaking of Scorchers, my Pashley Roadster conversion has become my favorite "Just grab it and go" bike. And not only for trips around the neighborhood, either.
Here she is in Hastings, MN, where we rode several branches of the Vermillion River Trail system. I call her "Pepper", for Pashley Path Racer. We put on over 20 miles last Sunday in the rolling hills west of town. It was a wonderful day out.
3-speed content: Does anyone here have any experience with the modern Sturmey Archer X-RD 3 or 4 drum-brake hubs? I am thinking of mounting one on this bike, so I have more options as to where I can ride it. I haven't had to walk this up a hill yet, but have come very close.
Here she is in Hastings, MN, where we rode several branches of the Vermillion River Trail system. I call her "Pepper", for Pashley Path Racer. We put on over 20 miles last Sunday in the rolling hills west of town. It was a wonderful day out.
3-speed content: Does anyone here have any experience with the modern Sturmey Archer X-RD 3 or 4 drum-brake hubs? I am thinking of mounting one on this bike, so I have more options as to where I can ride it. I haven't had to walk this up a hill yet, but have come very close.
What kind of tyres are those? They look like cream skinwall models?
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I think I would have the same issue if I was going with a supplemental rear derailleur. Here I'd want to use at least a rear double with a 17/26 dual cog block, needing a 9-tooth wrap, about the same.
If this is true, you can't really have a deep granny (30 gear inches or so) with vintage components, due to the short swing arm at least on a Cyclo Standard. Does this seem right?
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I think a 3-speed hub could work very well! You could even go for a 27.2mm seat post shifter for a cleaner setup with less cables... provided it fits of course.
What kind of tyres are those? They look like cream skinwall models?
What kind of tyres are those? They look like cream skinwall models?
That's the first time I've ever seen a seat-tube shifter. I wonder how hard that would be to get used to.
The tires are Fairweather Touring "Cruise" Tire, 700x38c - Cream from Velo Orange. Nicest, smoothest tires I've ever ridden on.
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[SIZE="3"]I'm trying to find a nice old brass quadrant shifter for the top tube, but I'm not even sure if the cable pull is the same.
That's the first time I've ever seen a seat-tube shifter. I wonder how hard that would be to get used to.
The tires are Fairweather Touring "Cruise" Tire, 700x38c - Cream from Velo Orange. Nicest, smoothest tires I've ever ridden on.[/SIZE]
That's the first time I've ever seen a seat-tube shifter. I wonder how hard that would be to get used to.
The tires are Fairweather Touring "Cruise" Tire, 700x38c - Cream from Velo Orange. Nicest, smoothest tires I've ever ridden on.[/SIZE]
You might be able to get them for prices as low as £25.00 but generally they seem to go for £45.00 + shipping.
As far as compatibility, pretty much every regular SA 3-speed seems compatible with any shifter with the exception of the K-model and fixed gear versions. Here is someone who mounted a Quadrant shifter on his Pashley Guv'Nor as well as someone who went the seat post approach.
Those are some nice looking tyres, and of course that's a Japanese brand.
Fairly cheap directly from Fairweather in Japan, they have some nice stuff and a fair bit of collaboration with Panaracer and Nitto.
VO: Fairweather (x Panaracer) Touring "Cruise" Tire, 700x38c
Guess I have some thinking to do.
EDIT:
Seat post mount with shim above seat post clamp.
(Image by Forrester)
Last edited by JaccoW; 06-06-19 at 03:33 PM.
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About 20 mm, it certainly could be a lot, depending on your needs to get a good position.
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Is there any vintage-style derailleur that could handle a wide double?
Recall that to build his custom René Herse, Jan Heine made or adapted a suicide shifter to handle a wide compact double. I take a little confidence from this. Plus I’m using a simple Huret with a 39/53, no pins or indexing.
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What about a wide double in the front, maybe 9 tooth spread, with just the original 17 tooth on the Sturmey Archer hub?
Is there any vintage-style derailleur that could handle a wide double?
Recall that to build his custom René Herse, Jan Heine made or adapted a suicide shifter to handle a wide compact double. I take a little confidence from this. Plus I’m using a simple Huret with a 39/53, no pins or indexing.
Is there any vintage-style derailleur that could handle a wide double?
Recall that to build his custom René Herse, Jan Heine made or adapted a suicide shifter to handle a wide compact double. I take a little confidence from this. Plus I’m using a simple Huret with a 39/53, no pins or indexing.
edit. So if you're talking a single rear with a double front, you'll still need a tensioner. I think a rear freewheel will give you more range, after all, an AW already has a very wide range, it's the in between gear inches that are missing. Hence the old corncob style freewheels.
Last edited by clubman; 06-06-19 at 04:27 PM.
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Just something I've thought about and have no idea how successful it would be but...There are always two 1/16" shims on a standard SA driver. Two 1/8" cogs should still leave room for the circlip. Between dished and flat cogs, it might be possible to set up a dual cog derailleur system with the standard driver and cogs. If you used a FW or S5 hub, you would have a ton of range.
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Just something I've thought about and have no idea how successful it would be but...There are always two 1/16" shims on a standard SA driver. Two 1/8" cogs should still leave room for the circlip. Between dished and flat cogs, it might be possible to set up a dual cog derailleur system with the standard driver and cogs. If you used a FW or S5 hub, you would have a ton of range.
Maybe too much work to add a few gears to a roadster? I think this is why we have many rides.
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Not a bad idea, especially if you use 3/32" cogs for even more adjustibility. A mechanic friend of mine mills SA cogs from old hyperglide cogs with a dremel. You'll need more spacers and of course you'd need a compatible front chainring/crank.
Maybe too much work to add a few gears to a roadster? I think this is why we have many rides.
Maybe too much work to add a few gears to a roadster? I think this is why we have many rides.
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Lowest "safe" gearing for an AW?
Hello!
I've long been a fan of Sturmey Archers, and have several, my favorite is a "resto-mod" Hercules I built up about 15 years ago, its a superb townie, but I do now and again take it on longer rides.
Some details on the bike, I think its a 63', I had some cable stops brazed onto to the frame to lose the clamp on ones, got it powder coated semi gloss black, retapped the BB to accept "modern" square taper BBs, dug up a Ti BB out of my parts box, aluminum stem and bars, Mafac center pull brakes, and built a 700c wheelset for it built around a NOS 28 hole AW I got off ebay. I did open up the hub and clean it throughly and re-oil. The chrome fenders are in pretty good shape too.
Last weekend I actually rode a century on it, I've been biking a lot this spring and summer so I hit the century pretty hard and managed an average speed of 16 MPH, a little over 6 hours of pedaling. The ride was around lake tahoe with an out and back leg to Truckee. Was a great day weather wise too!
Last november I rode a century on my road bike with 11,000' of climbing, and I'm more fit now than I was then... There is a bruiser of a ride in early July that I may want to ride on my 3 speed, the stats are 129 miles and 15,000+' of climbing... The tahoe century was sort of flat, 5,000' of climbing, I ran 52/24 gearing and it was perfect really, I could sit and pedal the climbs comfortably in 1st gear, or click it to second and stand up and smash pretty comfortably, but there is a lot more climbing on the perspective upcoming ride, and I'll have to pedal easier than I did on the tahoe century to ride for an additional 5 hours or so, so I'll need lower gears, much lower gears I think...
SA says you shouldn't go below a 2:1 ratio, meaning I should only drop to a 48 up front, but I read of one guy that ran 40/21 which is a bit lower than SA recommends, but I have no idea how hard he rode it...
I'd love to go 42/24, but I'd hate to blow up this hub, not finishing the ride due to a mechanical would be a bummer, but to break my baby would really suck. The lower top speed of 42/24 would be about 18 MPH, where the 52/24 is about 22 MPH, I'm fine with being spun out at 18 MPH.
So, anyone have experience with gearing SA's way down and how they fare under such circumstances? As the load on the hub gears is largely relative to my weight, I weigh 158 pounds...
Couple pics for you guys, EDIT/// I can't post pics yet.
I've long been a fan of Sturmey Archers, and have several, my favorite is a "resto-mod" Hercules I built up about 15 years ago, its a superb townie, but I do now and again take it on longer rides.
Some details on the bike, I think its a 63', I had some cable stops brazed onto to the frame to lose the clamp on ones, got it powder coated semi gloss black, retapped the BB to accept "modern" square taper BBs, dug up a Ti BB out of my parts box, aluminum stem and bars, Mafac center pull brakes, and built a 700c wheelset for it built around a NOS 28 hole AW I got off ebay. I did open up the hub and clean it throughly and re-oil. The chrome fenders are in pretty good shape too.
Last weekend I actually rode a century on it, I've been biking a lot this spring and summer so I hit the century pretty hard and managed an average speed of 16 MPH, a little over 6 hours of pedaling. The ride was around lake tahoe with an out and back leg to Truckee. Was a great day weather wise too!
Last november I rode a century on my road bike with 11,000' of climbing, and I'm more fit now than I was then... There is a bruiser of a ride in early July that I may want to ride on my 3 speed, the stats are 129 miles and 15,000+' of climbing... The tahoe century was sort of flat, 5,000' of climbing, I ran 52/24 gearing and it was perfect really, I could sit and pedal the climbs comfortably in 1st gear, or click it to second and stand up and smash pretty comfortably, but there is a lot more climbing on the perspective upcoming ride, and I'll have to pedal easier than I did on the tahoe century to ride for an additional 5 hours or so, so I'll need lower gears, much lower gears I think...
SA says you shouldn't go below a 2:1 ratio, meaning I should only drop to a 48 up front, but I read of one guy that ran 40/21 which is a bit lower than SA recommends, but I have no idea how hard he rode it...
I'd love to go 42/24, but I'd hate to blow up this hub, not finishing the ride due to a mechanical would be a bummer, but to break my baby would really suck. The lower top speed of 42/24 would be about 18 MPH, where the 52/24 is about 22 MPH, I'm fine with being spun out at 18 MPH.
So, anyone have experience with gearing SA's way down and how they fare under such circumstances? As the load on the hub gears is largely relative to my weight, I weigh 158 pounds...
Couple pics for you guys, EDIT/// I can't post pics yet.
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Update on the '52 Sports. WD40 flush of the IGH got things moving again, but I've been unable to hook up and ride, as the front tire has succumbed to dry-rot. Anyone successfully coax a modern 700c wheel with 100mm hub into these forks? I'm not quite strong enough to pry them apart, so I may do a cold set with threaded rod.
As for leverage, is the fork out of the bike?
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Thanks for the info. Fork is still in the bike, on the repair stand. Would they be easier to bend out of the frame?
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Sun Tour shifters on seatpost
I'm trying to find a nice old brass quadrant shifter for the top tube, but I'm not even sure if the cable pull is the same.
That's the first time I've ever seen a seat-tube shifter. I wonder how hard that would be to get used to.
The tires are Fairweather Touring "Cruise" Tire, 700x38c - Cream from Velo Orange. Nicest, smoothest tires I've ever ridden on.
That's the first time I've ever seen a seat-tube shifter. I wonder how hard that would be to get used to.
The tires are Fairweather Touring "Cruise" Tire, 700x38c - Cream from Velo Orange. Nicest, smoothest tires I've ever ridden on.
IGHs have a strong spring and can overwhelm most variable shifters. These Sun Tours work a 1930s derailleur and a 1946 SA 4 speed. They have a very good clutch so that they move freely but hold the position you select and don't slip.
In situ. The shift lever travel for the IGH is very short. Maybe 20 degrees of rotation selects gears 1 to 4.
Last edited by Johno59; 06-08-19 at 06:39 AM.
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Hello!
I've long been a fan of Sturmey Archers, and have several, my favorite is a "resto-mod" Hercules I built up about 15 years ago, its a superb townie, but I do now and again take it on longer rides.
Some details on the bike, I think its a 63', I had some cable stops brazed onto to the frame to lose the clamp on ones, got it powder coated semi gloss black, retapped the BB to accept "modern" square taper BBs, dug up a Ti BB out of my parts box, aluminum stem and bars, Mafac center pull brakes, and built a 700c wheelset for it built around a NOS 28 hole AW I got off ebay. I did open up the hub and clean it throughly and re-oil. The chrome fenders are in pretty good shape too.
Last weekend I actually rode a century on it, I've been biking a lot this spring and summer so I hit the century pretty hard and managed an average speed of 16 MPH, a little over 6 hours of pedaling. The ride was around lake tahoe with an out and back leg to Truckee. Was a great day weather wise too!
Last november I rode a century on my road bike with 11,000' of climbing, and I'm more fit now than I was then... There is a bruiser of a ride in early July that I may want to ride on my 3 speed, the stats are 129 miles and 15,000+' of climbing... The tahoe century was sort of flat, 5,000' of climbing, I ran 52/24 gearing and it was perfect really, I could sit and pedal the climbs comfortably in 1st gear, or click it to second and stand up and smash pretty comfortably, but there is a lot more climbing on the perspective upcoming ride, and I'll have to pedal easier than I did on the tahoe century to ride for an additional 5 hours or so, so I'll need lower gears, much lower gears I think...
SA says you shouldn't go below a 2:1 ratio, meaning I should only drop to a 48 up front, but I read of one guy that ran 40/21 which is a bit lower than SA recommends, but I have no idea how hard he rode it...
I'd love to go 42/24, but I'd hate to blow up this hub, not finishing the ride due to a mechanical would be a bummer, but to break my baby would really suck. The lower top speed of 42/24 would be about 18 MPH, where the 52/24 is about 22 MPH, I'm fine with being spun out at 18 MPH.
So, anyone have experience with gearing SA's way down and how they fare under such circumstances? As the load on the hub gears is largely relative to my weight, I weigh 158 pounds...
Couple pics for you guys, EDIT/// I can't post pics yet.
I've long been a fan of Sturmey Archers, and have several, my favorite is a "resto-mod" Hercules I built up about 15 years ago, its a superb townie, but I do now and again take it on longer rides.
Some details on the bike, I think its a 63', I had some cable stops brazed onto to the frame to lose the clamp on ones, got it powder coated semi gloss black, retapped the BB to accept "modern" square taper BBs, dug up a Ti BB out of my parts box, aluminum stem and bars, Mafac center pull brakes, and built a 700c wheelset for it built around a NOS 28 hole AW I got off ebay. I did open up the hub and clean it throughly and re-oil. The chrome fenders are in pretty good shape too.
Last weekend I actually rode a century on it, I've been biking a lot this spring and summer so I hit the century pretty hard and managed an average speed of 16 MPH, a little over 6 hours of pedaling. The ride was around lake tahoe with an out and back leg to Truckee. Was a great day weather wise too!
Last november I rode a century on my road bike with 11,000' of climbing, and I'm more fit now than I was then... There is a bruiser of a ride in early July that I may want to ride on my 3 speed, the stats are 129 miles and 15,000+' of climbing... The tahoe century was sort of flat, 5,000' of climbing, I ran 52/24 gearing and it was perfect really, I could sit and pedal the climbs comfortably in 1st gear, or click it to second and stand up and smash pretty comfortably, but there is a lot more climbing on the perspective upcoming ride, and I'll have to pedal easier than I did on the tahoe century to ride for an additional 5 hours or so, so I'll need lower gears, much lower gears I think...
SA says you shouldn't go below a 2:1 ratio, meaning I should only drop to a 48 up front, but I read of one guy that ran 40/21 which is a bit lower than SA recommends, but I have no idea how hard he rode it...
I'd love to go 42/24, but I'd hate to blow up this hub, not finishing the ride due to a mechanical would be a bummer, but to break my baby would really suck. The lower top speed of 42/24 would be about 18 MPH, where the 52/24 is about 22 MPH, I'm fine with being spun out at 18 MPH.
So, anyone have experience with gearing SA's way down and how they fare under such circumstances? As the load on the hub gears is largely relative to my weight, I weigh 158 pounds...
Couple pics for you guys, EDIT/// I can't post pics yet.
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Just something I've thought about and have no idea how successful it would be but...There are always two 1/16" shims on a standard SA driver. Two 1/8" cogs should still leave room for the circlip. Between dished and flat cogs, it might be possible to set up a dual cog derailleur system with the standard driver and cogs. If you used a FW or S5 hub, you would have a ton of range.
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1950 Superbe reassembly
Hey all,
I've got an issue with axle room on the drive side for the three speed cog. When I place the original washers in their position as found when I disassembled, there isn't enough room for the axle to slide into the drop out with enough leftover for the indicator chain bolt (the name escapes me right now). If I remove spacing washers, the tube is too close to the cog set which results in chain rub. Any thoughts? I'm new to setting these up so it's a bit confusing. Did I somehow move the axle too far toward the non drive side? Photo:
I've got an issue with axle room on the drive side for the three speed cog. When I place the original washers in their position as found when I disassembled, there isn't enough room for the axle to slide into the drop out with enough leftover for the indicator chain bolt (the name escapes me right now). If I remove spacing washers, the tube is too close to the cog set which results in chain rub. Any thoughts? I'm new to setting these up so it's a bit confusing. Did I somehow move the axle too far toward the non drive side? Photo:
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Hey all,
I've got an issue with axle room on the drive side for the three speed cog. When I place the original washers in their position as found when I disassembled, there isn't enough room for the axle to slide into the drop out with enough leftover for the indicator chain bolt (the name escapes me right now). If I remove spacing washers, the tube is too close to the cog set which results in chain rub. Any thoughts? I'm new to setting these up so it's a bit confusing. Did I somehow move the axle too far toward the non drive side? Photo:
I've got an issue with axle room on the drive side for the three speed cog. When I place the original washers in their position as found when I disassembled, there isn't enough room for the axle to slide into the drop out with enough leftover for the indicator chain bolt (the name escapes me right now). If I remove spacing washers, the tube is too close to the cog set which results in chain rub. Any thoughts? I'm new to setting these up so it's a bit confusing. Did I somehow move the axle too far toward the non drive side? Photo:
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This is an AG hub with a Cyclo derailer three speed added onto it I assume at purchase or just afterward. Right now I'm fitting just the AG and the cogset to make sure the AG shifts properly before installing the Cyclo parts.