caloso

Umm, I think you're confusing or conflating my post with merlinextraligh's but whatever, but I don't mind as he makes some excellent points.

And thanks, TacoPropelled, I thought that was obvious to everyone on this thread. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised that even some cyclists don't consider cyclists to be vehicles.

scarry

Basic Speed Law


22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.

krazyderek

^^^^^^ we have almost the exact same law here in NS,

Am i the only one that slow's down, often qutie below the posted speed limit *GASP*, if i'm going around a bend in a road? You guys writting the driver off as inocent cause he wasn't exceeding the speed limit are in for a suprise one day.

BTW, i checked today, i'm pretty sure the speed limit where the accident happend was 60kmh (35mph) but it's like a 10k stretch, like i said before, not exactly a freeway.

flipped4bikes

Bottom line: the motorist will do what he will do. Question is: Can he live with himself if he does do that?

notfast

Former part, correct. Latter part, irrelevant. We are the vulnerable ones, not the motorists. Keep yourself alive by anticipating the worst.

chessie254

irrelevant...if the driver hits another car or tractor....whatever....no one is likely hurt too badly. If its a bike...all bets are off.

Those riders that insist on taking their "fair share" of the road, IMO are putting themselves at risk to be involved in an accident. That group of riders in the OP were probably within their rights, but were taking a chance by riding towards the middle of a traffic lane. We can whine about how bad drivers can be all we want, and how they will be at fault if they hit you, and how everyone should drive like a child might be in the street around the next bend.

We have choosen an activity that puts us in the path of motorized vehicles...and every once in a while a cyclist is going to get taken out. Shouldn't the prudent course of action be to do what you can to reduce the risk of it happening to you?

sentinel4675

In reality, I don't think the thread would have been posted had not the riders started using profanity.

Cycliste

I wonder what his family think about all this? Last of their worries probably when they have to deal with a father that drives them to the edge every single minute of they life.

sentinel4675

Folks, I think the post would never have been made had the cyclists not used profanity and yelled at the driver.

digger

[QUOTE=krazyderek

BTW, i checked today, i'm pretty sure the speed limit where the accident happend was 60kmh (35mph) but it's like a 10k stretch, like i said before, not exactly a freeway.[/QUOTE]


It would be nice if the motorists actually kept it at 60kph along there. BTW, there was no accident, perhaps an incident(?)

I have read the BNS forum, pretty level headed responses from the cyclists. I especially like this one response:

Our group of 6 passed this 20+ group near Wellington during our ride on Sunday but i did not witness the altercation so i will speak in generalities...

The more experienced riders need to take newer riders under their wing and show them the ropes, teach them group riding skills, how to predict hazards, etc...Remember, road riding participation has increased dramatically in the past 2-3 years and EDUCATION is the key to ensuring that these newcomers can live to enjoy the sport for the long term. Drivers also need to be educated by cyclists, signage, driving test literature, etc.

Secondly, restraint and RESPECT needs to be practiced by both riders and drivers. Easier said than done, I know, but still important to keep in the forefront of our thoughts when facing potential conflicts.

There really is no answer to this problem- the best we can do IMHO is educate each other and respect each other...and cycle defensively for your own sake.

The only thing I can say about this response is - I hope those more experienced riders are not the ones shouting profanities and making gestures.

McSpin

A classic confrontation.

The driver didn't respect the cyclists and the cyclists didn't repect the auto traffic. Both did things that weren't smart, yet neither sees it that way. It's always the other guy's fault.

In this case, there was a lack of respect from both sides. Large groups of cyclists should know how to ride safely and should practice it. Who cares if it's legal, if it's not safe? It's just plain stupid to ride two abreast around a curve in a tight group of many riders. The car driver is angry - rightly so, and then over reacts to the cyclist's stupidity. The car driver is probably also going too fast and not respecting cyclist's rights. Both are wrong, and neither is likely to ever see it. Even though the cyclists may be leagally in the right, their attitude and common sense are failing.

flipped4bikes

Notfast and Chessie254,

Interesting that both of you said "irrelevant", and if I'm reading your posts correctly, for completely opposite reasons. I agree, we have no control over what a motorist can do, that's the gist of my post. And I also agree that we as bicyclists have to ride to minimize motorists' mistakes, like we are invisible.

Saying that if a motorist can live with himself is irrelevant, then how does anyone live with each other?

jfmckenna

Thats the exact opposite of what you should do if you want to minimize motorist mistakes. Why should it be up to you to minimize their mistakes anyway? Not that thats a bad idea but think about it. You give them an inch and they will take a yard. Riding over on the edge of the road next to the ditch is 10 times more dangerous than taking the lane and forcing traffic to slow down.

flipped4bikes

What I'm trying to say is ride like they don't see you. In this particular instance, maybe it's best to ride single file where sight distances are limited. Yes, motorists SHOULD be aware at all times of the road conditions, but is it safe to assume that? I ride lit up like a Christmas tree, and where the brightest clothing possible, but I will never assume motorists actually see me, nor will presume to think that they're on the watch out for cyclists.

I can be confrontational all I want, or think like a tractor, BUT I COULD STILL END UP DEAD. Don't get me wrong, I love riding on the road. I won't presume the belief that a motorist has my best interests in mind...

Gus Riley

Already been done in Florida, at least once a couple of years back.

galen_52657

Totally wrong.

Riding partially in the lane is safer than riding in the gutter or to far right. Motorist are much more likely to attempt threading the needle between a same-direction cyclist and oncoming car if the cyclist is way over on the right. Motorist are much more inclinded to slow down and overtake when prudent if the cyclist takes some lane.

The fact is the motorist was traveling to fast for the road conditions and sight lines. The posted speed limit is the FASTEST you are allowed to travel on the road under OPTIMUM conditions. Blind bends in the road are not optimum conditions so caution and reduced speeds should be employed.

Had the motorist rounded the bend to find a slow-moving farm implement taking up the roadway his reaction would have been totally different.

bbattle

Brilliant! Give that man a Guinness.

Does anybody know what the laws are regarding cyclists for this area?

Albany-12303

I like to ride at night with lots of blinky lights.

Cars think that I am some sort of emergency vehicle and they slow down and pass very carefully.

big john

Where I ride,(L.A. area), cars normally travel 15-20 mph above the posted limit. Road rage is common and driving a car is no longer fun. When on the bike, I don't do anything to upset these psychos and try to stay out of the traffic lanes when possible. The thought that it is safer to take the lane from them is just crazy in some cases. I ride with groups and when this happens I have seen unbelievable reactions from drivers. They are willing to risk their own lives and the lives of other drivers so I know they don't care about us. Sometimes when I have been introduced to non riders at parties as a bicyclist I get to hear the story of how they were dissed on the road by a cyclist and I can see the rage boil up in them as they relive it. When I encounter the sickness on the road I try to ignore them, I don't flip them off or even acknowledge them, if I can help myself. Of course, sometimes I can't help it and express my displeasure. It's your a$$ out there, use your best judgement.

schiavonec

Devil's advocate here -

So lets say this is a long straight of 200+meters and a pelotan took up 2/3 of the road making passing either unsafe or unreasonable. How about engaging in RECREATION a different way? While i firmly believe cyclists have the right to use/share the road with motor vehicle, it doesn't give them the right to monopolize the road any more than a car. Unless there is road debris/sand, etc. closer to the shoulder the cyclist should ride closer to the right. I am going to assume, that to the right of 1/2 of the lane was not UNSAFE due to sand, etc. so why ride doubled up. (Because a bunch of people engaged in a recreational activity decide that is what they want to do?) No reason not to ride single file other than personal desire.


Agreed on the rear ending anything though.

bobsdf

And now for a different approach (from here: https://www.competitivecyclist.com/za...RSET_VERSION=1 ):

We cruised two-abreast through the center of town, past the factory, and towards the mountains. From the conversations I could overhear, our ride would basically take us over the first and last 30km of tomorrow's Granfondo, but more importantly it served as my introduction to the way in which Italians drive around cyclists. To say they're accommodating is a understatement. Perhaps it's because our group was so big, but oncoming traffic regularly slowed and pulled onto their shoulder to ensure ample room as we passed. Cars passing from the rear showed patience before coming around us, making certain they had adequate space ahead before accelerating past. Perhaps it's due to the fact that Italy has been the mythical home of bike racing for a century, or maybe it's because so many non-racer types rely on the bicycle for transportation, or maybe it's due to the less hectic tone of Italian life -- retail stores are open from 10am-1pm, then 4pm-7pm, everything in the country closes down for vacation for the entire month of August, etc. -- but I felt safer than ever before on my bike on a busy road. I mentioned this to the rider alongside me at one point, an American who'd spent several years riding in Italy. His reply was illuminating: "Drivers here don't mind cyclists because cyclists ride predictably. A 70-year old Grandma with a basket full of groceries can hold a straighter line than your average American Cat. 3. It makes things safer for everybody."

caloso

Schiavonec:

And your unspoken premise is that recreational users are less worthy of the road than others? Is that correct?

Gus Riley

You got that right. On one of our RAGBRAI years, (Council Bluffs, Iowa was the kickoff town) an older rider was crossing a freeway overpass. He got too close to the curb, his right pedal hit the curb, which suddenly threw him to the left...right into the path of a overtaking semi (not the trucker's fault by any means). He died, and it was not a good thing for the crowds to see.

Take as much lane as you think you need, no more, no less. They got brakes, let 'em use them.