What do you think about the Park tool spoke tension site? / Evening spoke tensions?
09-30-19, 08:28 PM
#26
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I don't build wheels, but for checking spoke tensions I've had good luck with an app called "Tensioner" or "Spoke Tensioner." Basically, it uses the tone of a plucked spoke on a smartphone (Apple iPhone SE, in my case.) It's better than my old ears.
10-01-19, 08:23 AM
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I am a jazz guitarist and guitar repairmen. I can hear the spokes and checking them with the gauge says that my ears can ear when the tensions are close. The Park tensionmeter is fine and not expensive so I think worth the trouble to use. I gives one more set of things to look at and I see no reason to not use the tensionmeter. I will say though I have had wheels that the tensions were not very even and yet wheel was true. By then re-tensioning the wheel to get the spokes more even in tension, it allowed the wheel to still be true but now with better even tension. That wheel will last and be much stronger.
In repairing a guitar much of the same thought goes into using various tools. Many repairs do not require I have all the perfect set of tools but the more available that I make use of makes for a better set up. I can set guitar action height entirely by simply using my eyes, but why not use a ruler an measure things just to be sure.
In repairing a guitar much of the same thought goes into using various tools. Many repairs do not require I have all the perfect set of tools but the more available that I make use of makes for a better set up. I can set guitar action height entirely by simply using my eyes, but why not use a ruler an measure things just to be sure.
10-01-19, 09:30 AM
#28
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I have in my collection a wheel built fully 60 years ago with very even tension, plus or minus 5% all the way around. Quite certain that wheel was never examined with a tension meter before I did it. Have known wheelbuilders who checked their wheels once with a meter and decided they never needed to use it again. Because they were building even tension without the tool. But they sure do like it if the employees use the meter. Have known a few who used their ears for even tension. Some used that tool effectively but most are just shocked when their wheels are checked with a meter. And then they buy the meter.
Some people are never going to figure out how to use a meter. Getting angry with it won't work. Meters have been around for forty years now and are still not in general use. It's a level of complexity that just baffles some.
Anyone who works on old bikes, or even anyone who works on bikes with normal wheels based on tensioned spokes, knows that the overwhelming majority of wheels out on the road are just horrible. Nothing improves the ride of a bike more than good wheels.
Simple test to determine if your wheels are good. First they feel good. Real good. Second, do they hold true? Do they hold true for thousands of miles? Do they soldier on through potholes and abuse? Good wheels are built once and remain good. If touchups are ever needed they are minor and simple and there was usually an obvious reason. Wheels that need constant attention to remain half in true are almost certainly loose. Wheels that are too tight can go a long time giving good service but will make the rim give up early. There are not a lot of wheels too tight, but they fly completely under the radar. If a rim that should give 20,000 miles of service gives excellent service for 5000 most will just be happy. Has to be real tight and give real short service for anyone to notice. And then usually the rim gets blamed, not the builder.
Some people are never going to figure out how to use a meter. Getting angry with it won't work. Meters have been around for forty years now and are still not in general use. It's a level of complexity that just baffles some.
Anyone who works on old bikes, or even anyone who works on bikes with normal wheels based on tensioned spokes, knows that the overwhelming majority of wheels out on the road are just horrible. Nothing improves the ride of a bike more than good wheels.
Simple test to determine if your wheels are good. First they feel good. Real good. Second, do they hold true? Do they hold true for thousands of miles? Do they soldier on through potholes and abuse? Good wheels are built once and remain good. If touchups are ever needed they are minor and simple and there was usually an obvious reason. Wheels that need constant attention to remain half in true are almost certainly loose. Wheels that are too tight can go a long time giving good service but will make the rim give up early. There are not a lot of wheels too tight, but they fly completely under the radar. If a rim that should give 20,000 miles of service gives excellent service for 5000 most will just be happy. Has to be real tight and give real short service for anyone to notice. And then usually the rim gets blamed, not the builder.
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10-01-19, 09:35 AM
#29
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I have in my collection a wheel built fully 60 years ago with very even tension, plus or minus 5% all the way around. Quite certain that wheel was never examined with a tension meter before I did it. Have known wheelbuilders who checked their wheels once with a meter and decided they never needed to use it again. Because they were building even tension without the tool. But they sure do like it if the employees use the meter. Have known a few who used their ears for even tension. Some used that tool effectively but most are just shocked when their wheels are checked with a meter. And then they buy the meter.
Some people are never going to figure out how to use a meter. Getting angry with it won't work. Meters have been around for forty years now and are still not in general use. It's a level of complexity that just baffles some.
Anyone who works on old bikes, or even anyone who works on bikes with normal wheels based on tensioned spokes, knows that the overwhelming majority of wheels out on the road are just horrible. Nothing improves the ride of a bike more than good wheels.
Simple test to determine if your wheels are good. First they feel good. Real good. Second, do they hold true? Do they hold true for thousands of miles? Do they soldier on through potholes and abuse? Good wheels are built once and remain good. If touchups are ever needed they are minor and simple and there was usually an obvious reason. Wheels that need constant attention to remain half in true are almost certainly loose. Wheels that are too tight can go a long time giving good service but will make the rim give up early. There are not a lot of wheels too tight, but they fly completely under the radar. If a rim that should give 20,000 miles of service gives excellent service for 5000 most will just be happy. Has to be real tight and give real short service for anyone to notice. And then usually the rim gets blamed, not the builder.
Some people are never going to figure out how to use a meter. Getting angry with it won't work. Meters have been around for forty years now and are still not in general use. It's a level of complexity that just baffles some.
Anyone who works on old bikes, or even anyone who works on bikes with normal wheels based on tensioned spokes, knows that the overwhelming majority of wheels out on the road are just horrible. Nothing improves the ride of a bike more than good wheels.
Simple test to determine if your wheels are good. First they feel good. Real good. Second, do they hold true? Do they hold true for thousands of miles? Do they soldier on through potholes and abuse? Good wheels are built once and remain good. If touchups are ever needed they are minor and simple and there was usually an obvious reason. Wheels that need constant attention to remain half in true are almost certainly loose. Wheels that are too tight can go a long time giving good service but will make the rim give up early. There are not a lot of wheels too tight, but they fly completely under the radar. If a rim that should give 20,000 miles of service gives excellent service for 5000 most will just be happy. Has to be real tight and give real short service for anyone to notice. And then usually the rim gets blamed, not the builder.
But what do you think of the tension app?
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10-01-19, 09:52 AM
#30
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I think the app is not useful. I can keep track of readings in my head as the build goes along. For people who need an app to do anything it's probably OK. From a marketing perspective they have to have an app or customers will think they're in the Stone Age.
Referring back to OP it seems there's a basic point that has been missed. The tool accommodates double butted spokes and always has. Tool comes with a gauge to check spoke diameter and diameter of the butted section. Then there's a chart that converts the reading on the meter's gauge to a tension number or weight. It matters if your 14gauge butted spoke is 2.0/1.8 or 2.0/1.6 or 2.0/1.5.
Referring back to OP it seems there's a basic point that has been missed. The tool accommodates double butted spokes and always has. Tool comes with a gauge to check spoke diameter and diameter of the butted section. Then there's a chart that converts the reading on the meter's gauge to a tension number or weight. It matters if your 14gauge butted spoke is 2.0/1.8 or 2.0/1.6 or 2.0/1.5.
10-01-19, 10:00 AM
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The reason most tools are made is to make a task easier (or even possible). I'm old, and my ears have suffered a lot of abuse. I wouldn't dare trust them for spoke tension. Even if you are young and healthy, your ears may not be. There are some studies indicating that the level of ambient noise in any urban environment is damaging to the ear. Certain illnesses, even a bad head cold, can permanently affect your hearing, and you may not even notice—I didn't.
That's what tensiometers or spoke tension apps are for. They eliminate the uncertainty inherent in human perception. If your ears are good enough to do the job, fine, enjoy. But realize that this can change without you noticing.
That's what tensiometers or spoke tension apps are for. They eliminate the uncertainty inherent in human perception. If your ears are good enough to do the job, fine, enjoy. But realize that this can change without you noticing.
