macphisto23

I usually did two 30 minutes hill climbing sessions a day. High gears and heavy torquing. I also think the bike fit had a lot to do with it. Yes, I warmed up on the stationary before using strong resistance. That bike is the worst thing that ever happened to me

macphisto23

The low gears could come in handy for hill climbing.

macphisto23

What kind of knee pain were you experiencing on your tours? Do you think the tours made them worse?

I have extra large straps on my pedals to move freely; should I still take them off?

mikhalit

I learned from some singlespeed mountain bikers that cycling the proper way may make your knees stronger. Proper way means learning to spin a lot and avoiding heavy mashing.
I do have creaky knees that get sore if i don't take care of them. Keeping the knees warm (e.g with knee warmers), warming up in the beginning of the ride does make a big difference.
Also my cranks fit me very well, they are on the longer side (205mm), and their additional effect is that my pedaling is easier when i have to go slowly (i'm riding a singlespeed now). So, i'd say a proper fit is really important, not just your position on the bike but also cranks of the proper size and right pedals.

Cyclebum

1+

Neil_B

The same kind you experienced, aided by my 'knocked' condition. I had a synvisc injection that helped for a few months. You might want to ask your doctor if injection will help.

I found if my knees or feet even hinted at pain, I could work around it by moving my feet to a different position on the pedal.

Tourist in MSN

I blew out a knee backpacking in the rockies about 35 years ago. It was the last day and the downhills at times were like walking down stairs with extra high steps where I came down on my knees hard with the extra weight. Since then I am careful that I do not put too much pressure on my knees. I almost never stand on the pedals to go up a hill, etc. There have been a few times that I started to have knee pain while on a bike ride, I kept riding but in a lower gear and pressed less hard on that leg until the pain went away - usually the pain had gone away by the time I got home on a bike ride by just taking it easy.

I am going to Europe on a bike tour at the end of this month, the on-line reviews for that trip commonly mention that they wished they had done more hill training. Yesterday I went up a 100 foot hill five times, that is the tallest hill for miles around. And, this summer I am going to ride the Going to the Sun Highway. I am not letting knee pain stop me from touring. Two summers ago on one day my tour had me climb about 2,500 feet in one day, it was a long steady climb but it was worth it.

Ask your doctor about pain medication, you want some but you want it weak enough so that you do not act drunk and weak enough so that when you really have a knee problem, you know it.

Crankset, my granny gear is a 24t chainring, 32 teeth on the biggest rear sprocket. I think you may want a lower gear for Argentina so I am not suggesting any specific crankset since you probably do not want mine.

LeeG

$.02 it takes conditioning as racing cyclist for connective tissue and joints to handle momentary high torque/speed sprint efforts but it's within a training regimen of recovery and other strength training. Sounds like you were tearing things down instead of building up. It's not uncommon for beginning racers to overtrain to injury using too big of gears for too long. What should be an activity for developing substantial cardio fitness instead becomes a means for injury. Grinding away at big gears is like climbing steps two at a time non-stop.

escii_35

After two major knee manglements here is my list.

1. Keep them warm!!!
2. Lots of slop (aka float) in my pedals.
3. No walking long distances on hard surfaces. Oddly, running is ok.
4. No standing on the pedals with gear. Spin up dem hills.
5. Train at higher rpms. (I tour at a lower wattage and lower cadence.)
6. For me Naproxin >>>>> ibuprofin.

pasopia

You really should get this sorted out before you leave.

Last year I spent 8 months cycling from Argentina to Ecuador. The summer before I left I started having serious knee problems, for the first time in my life (I was 29). The pain would become so bad on rides longer than 50 miles that I had to stop riding and take the train home.

I went to get a professional bike fit from a guy in my area with a great reputation. He measured me and put my on my bike on a trainer. He adjusted my cleat position, and my saddle height, fore and aft. Then he had me go do a bunch of rides. Things were better, but they still hurt. I came back, and he made one more adjustment. After that I felt great.

8 months of riding through the Andes and I never had one day of knee pain. Bike fit is really important, go see a professional.

macphisto23

Ok, it seems like the consensus here is that pedaling while standing up is bad for the knees; is that really true? It seems like most the weight goes to the arms and actually relieves much of the pressure on the legs and knees. On top of that it relieves saddle soreness.

Aside from that I am thankful for the all advice I have gotten so far

cheers

Neil_B

Standing gets weight off your butt. That weight doesn't go to your arms.

simplygib

I wrecked both knees on my first tour. Took on too much too soon, lots of hills, etc. Different problem though, patellar tendonitis. After returning home I saw a Physical Therapist who got me going in the right direction to resolve the problem. I've done lots of tours since then without issue - because I now know how to manage it (training, stretching, ibuprofen).

My girlfriend is a Physical Therapist (didn't know her back when I had those knee problems). I asked her about your issue. She said you should:

1. See your doctor and ask for a prescription to Physical Therapy (can't just go see one on your own in most states).

2. Call around and find a Physical Therapist who is familiar with cycling-related knee issues. Any PT could help you, but she said those most familiar with cycling-related issues could probably resolve your issue sooner.

3. She said patello femoral syndrome is often caused by an imbalance in leg muscle strength, common in people who do one kind of leg exercise that strengthens one set of leg muscles but not others. For cyclists, it's often an overly tight "IT band." The result is your kneecap being pulled "off center" which causes the underside of it to rub against bones. I might not be getting that exactly right but I think that's what she said. A common treatment, she said, is a program to strengthen and stretch specific leg muscles to eliminate the imbalance, combined with an anti-inflammatory such as ibuprofen.

Make an appointment, get an evaluation, tell them of your tour plans and have them develop a treatment program (exercises, stretches) to get you on your way to pain-free cycling. Then follow through on that program - religiously.

MassiveD

"3. She said patello femoral syndrome is often caused by an imbalance in leg muscle strength, common in people who do one kind of leg exercise that strengthens one set of leg muscles but not others. For cyclists, it's often an overly tight "IT band." The result is your kneecap being pulled "off center" which causes the underside of it to rub against bones. I might not be getting that exactly right but I think that's what she said. A common treatment, she said, is a program to strengthen and stretch specific leg muscles to eliminate the imbalance, combined with an anti-inflammatory such as ibuprofen."

That was my exact problem when my knees were healthy. I have very strong thighs, and the knee cap would burn a little. I could rest it for a long time, and it would not help. But, if I just hook my heel under something strong and about the height of the seat of a char, or a little lower, and pull on it with my heel, it is a miracle cure. You can also just sit on a couch, and with your foot on the ground, contract your hamstrings and pull your foot back against the resistance of the floor. This problem is very common among racers, and is part of the reason they sometimes come back from the off season doing like 800 miles of low gear mileage, and work on the upstroke (80s tech). So this is something you can make a lot worse by cycling, or by over doing some leg exercise that "uses the same muscles". This is the kind of thing a fixies could help because you brake by resisting leg extensions, while most cycling is firing the leg extension.

All that said, some problems are more than one thing. After a crash I really have to nurse my knees that got blown off. I do not have pain, but it is also really easy to overdo it. The kind of hero trip you are proposing would not be a bad idea if you have complications, maybe. You can be fine for a long go, and overdo it on one hill and your career, or a few years are over. But then I want to ease my way through this, and not have to depend on a lot of surgery and pills to keep going. I would do something else if cycling was no longer good for you.
T

LeeG

It's not standing up that's the problem, it's the gear/effort that puts a high effort for a long duration that over stresses things. For a given power output if your pedaling at 80rpm you'll spend less time peak loading joints and ligaments compared to pedaling at 50rpm at the same road speed. Standing up is fine way to shake out things and change position, sprinting, but standing as though you're climbing stairs makes no sense. It's a bike not a stair master machine.
If you want to put out power learn to spin, if you don't want injury don't do low rpm torquing.

Tourist in MSN

I think I was the first one to comment on avoiding standing on the pedals, above in post number 32.

I do not know what it is about standing on the pedals to go up a hill, but I do know that I can suddenly have pain in the knee from it. I regularly use the stairmaster at the health club at about a 140 watt level with ankle weights (I weigh about 180 pounds for comparison, am 58 years old), the stairmaster has not been any kind of problem. But, hill climbing on the bike is something that I try to only do while in the saddle. On a long day, I might put my bike in the highest gear for half a minute and stand on the pedals to pedal to relax the part of me that has been in contact with the saddle too long, but other than that I try to stay in the saddle to save the knees.

Last summer I was on a tour in Europe, supported tour with sag wagon. One gal in the group that had extensive cycling experience in the rockies often stood on the pedals for uphills - until she blew out her knee. For the next week she was pedaling at a very high cadence but low pressure on the pedals, thus low actual bike speed. She was a nurse practitioner by occupation and she described in medical terminology what she diagnosed it as. She could have ridden in the sag wagon for a week, but she got out there every day on the bike, but she never stood on the pedals after she blew out her knee.

macphisto23

So much great advice, seriously! I am going to try to track down a physical therapist and try t get this taken care of. The last thing I want to do while I am touring is stressing about my knees.

Northwestrider

Sure, the crank is a shimano deore with 170mm crank arms. The Cassette is a Shimano CS-HG61 12-36t. Enjoy

acantor

I would like to echo those who suggested have someone check your fit. I have had on and off knee problems for almost 30 years, and at one point, the pain became severe enough that I was about to cancel a major bike trip that I had prepared for for six months.

But I checked my network, I discovered "la crème de la crème" of bicycle fitters worked close to my home. The session lasted an hour, cost about $100, but what a difference it made. Eight years later, I still have occasional knee problems, but they are no longer caused by cycling. Some of the changes were very subtle. For example, she rotated the cleat angle by only a few degrees. (For the record, her professional background was Kinesiology.)

Northwestrider

IMO a good set of platform pedals are helpful as well, I feel they allow me to be much more flexible during a ride. And my feet seem to stay put with them. I've tried clipless, but I've returned back to platforms.

macphisto23

Hey, thanks. What model shimano deore did you get? Did you also get a new front derailleur?

LeeG

if you have any inclination to expend high aerobic efforts like your twice daily 30 minute workouts you gotta learn to spin. Higher rpms where you pedal a circle reduces peak stress on everything. It takes cleated pedals with the right position and float otherwise get used to putting out less hp with regular platform pedals. Last thing you want is to repeat the same thing that caused the original injury.

Northwestrider

No new derailliur, as for the crank model I'm not sure at the moment.

macphisto23

Is that cassette you got only for 29er wheels? Or would this fit 26inch wheels as well: https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-CS-HG6.../dp/B0030KS7VQ

mikhalit

How about platforms with Powergrips? They do allow to pull the pedal up and push front. Not as effective of course. Maybe it is a good alternative to those who doesn't want clipless or can't have'em (like me, got enormous feet)?