gycho77

Wait.
Then you only apply glue once on the rim and attach an unglued tire?

wens

KTL-Online Resourse Database

If you want to bring some data to the tubular gluing conversation.

Koogar

Just want to publicly say THANK YOU. The volunteers at BVV have been awesome about persevering in the face of some pretty crummy weather.

And you've lowered @JimiMimni's cognitive training load significantly - even though it didn't seem like too much of an obstacle to coming around me late in the points race at springs on Tuesday

dunderhi

Yup, it's a radical concept, but that's the way was done for decades. Heck, if you got a flat while road riding, you just slapped on a new tire and the residual glue on the rim was enough to keep you riding.

dunderhi

Interesting, glue plus a tire at 90psi has about the same roll-off resistance as tire at 200psi and no glue.

Dalai

Melbourne, Australia

Pros

Claimed to be one the most livable cities in the world. To be honest for a big city it isn't too bad.
2 Indoor tracks with one open every day for training 9am -5pm if not being used by a squad at only $5 per hour. Also with racing there minimum 2 nights per week.
8 outdoor tracks within an hours drive with regular racing every weekend through summer.
Mild winters - Might get close to freezing a few nights each year during winter. None of this track being under snow the last 3 months!
If you want to mix it up, criteriums in summer (races 5 days a week) and road season in winter. Even CX!

Cons

Already a big city at 4 million people, suggestions it will almost double by 2051!
Ridiculously high property prices
16+ hours flying to the west coast USA, 24 hours to Europe!
Usually get a few days each summer over 40 degrees.

dunderhi

Sounds pretty nice, except for the population boom. Is there plenty of Master's (45+) racing offered at these tracks?

dunderhi

I just checked the instructions on my Continental Carbon Cement can and all they call for is a single fresh coat on the rim.

wens

I thought most people pre glued their spare. Tubular glue is contact cement, which means it sticks to itself even if you put two things together dry, which I thought was why slapping a spare on the road was fine.

If you go to slowtwitch and read about rolling resistance, heavily glued tires roll faster than lightly glued. Because I'm never going to have to change my track race tires on the side of the road after a flat, and they'll perform better, I glue the sh*t out of mine.

Banchad

I could deal with all of those cons. I haven't been on my home track since late September and I despise the cold and damp of being in the North-West of the UK.

queerpunk

Huh. Will you save me the terror of going to slowtwitch and summarize why?

I'd guess that with maybe a copious layer of glue, the tire has a bit more ability to deform and shimmy through the layer of glue instead of a thinner, less flexible layer joining basetape to rim - it adds flexibility in the system.

wens

I don't remember anyone having done the experimentation to get to root cause, I'm not sure which theory is leading either. I do know the rolling resistance spreadsheet had the same tires with different glue jobs showing significantly different crr values,very consistently trending the same direction and about the same amount.

As far as I'm concerned, it's empirically verified, but nobody has done the additional work to determine why.

gycho77

Oh carbon........
I am using aluminum rims, and my continental glue instruction is telling me to put 3 coats and last coat before I attach the tires on the rims
Also I just finished glueing my tires!!!

Bam!!

Baby Puke

I do three thin coats on both rim and tire. But I'm a traditionalist in most things bike related. (also never rolled a tire...)

dunderhi

I suspect your instructions depend on the type of glue, not the type of rim. Anyway, congrats

dunderhi

I'm not sure what you definition of traditionalist is, but my gluing method goes back almost 40yrs. You know, when a flat in $9 training tire was a major financial setback, which meant it was time to break out the needle and thread to repair the tire.

bitingduck

I always use Mastik I now, but even with Conti cement I use this recipe:

0) prestretch tire (with cotton tape it helps to wet it, install on a rim, and let it dry)
1) thin layer on rim
2) thin layer on base tape
3) let it dry so it's not tacky (a few hours)
4) another thin layer on the rim
5) let it dry so it's not wet (so it doesn't make a mess-- basically a really thin layer of glue with a skin over it), usually about 20 minutes
6) Install tire, pump slightly to center
7) pump tire hard

I prefer to let them sit overnight after step 7, but I've also ridden them immediately and not died.

Dalai

In regards to the gluing discussion, I'm with wens and use 3 thick layers on both the tyre and rim for track! Primarily due to lower rolling resistance, but also confidence inspiring when you nearly destroy your fingers trying to remove the tyre when replacing.

Racing down under is a little different than in the States.

On the track, other than States and Nationals and perhaps a few Masters handicap races; racing is just in grades (A - E or F) based on ability.

There is a separate VETS racing organisation which is not aligned with the UCI, but they only focus on road.

We don't race as teams. You must join a club to race (no teams exist except at National road series level) and no collusion is allowed.

Baby Puke

Same. And I've done the needle and thread thing too, but not since the 90's.

queerpunk

heh. i know that story.

i bought my first tubular from a friend for a hundred bucks; it was some lacey-fragile Corima front wheel with a neat hub and maybe 12 spokes. I wound up finding a rear record/zipp 440 on craigslist (and two years later, got back in touch with the buyer to buy the matching front!)... and i put the word out to bike racers that i know that i was looking for busted tubular tires to repair myself and start using...

over the course of a new england winter i did lumpy repairs to perhaps a eight or ten tubulars. and man. not a single one of those ugly patch jobs were very good. it's hard to sew the casing back together consistent with the stitching around it. i flatted a few immediately on springtime road grit; i tore a few off because they were too lumpy to use. the shop near me only sold Tubasti and I made a mess of everything. but by the time spring rolled around i had race wheels. i was legit.

queerpunk

In the past week or so, I think somebody posted on this board a video of a Russian dude doing a kilo - from the 90's. He snaps his bullhorn but keeps riding.
Can somebody post it again? I can't find it.

JimiMimni

From the "Track Endurance & Omnium Racing" Facebook page!

Banchad

Through sponsorship on my university cycling team I've been offered a Specialized Langster Pro frameset for 30% off. I assume from the good aluminium is better than poor carbon saying it will be better than the Planet X I currently have now? Would it be worth the upgrade?

gtrob

Im not sure where that saying comes from but I imagine it's roots are questionable.

Comparing 2 bikes based on material alone, especially with one of them being a complex composite and one being an alloy, is apples and oranges. A lot of people think metal is stiffer than plastic, so it must be better, but its really not that simple. Aluminum also has a pretty low fatigue limit (the more stress it cycles it sees, the less it can tolerate), where carbon fiber, generally speaking, maintains its tensile strength very well. Of course, its a composite material and there are a million influences on its structure, so you really cannot compare the 2. However, pound for pound, carbon fiber 'should' always be a better material that alloy (assuming better = absolute stiffness).

My point is what would make one option better than the other? A stiffer BB? Crash resistance? Weight? Cost? Of course arguably the MOST important question would be which one fits you better, as that is the better bike for you

gycho77

In my memory, specialized langster pro has 71 degree headtube with 45mm fork rake(whick is a street geometry). I would recommend planet x over langster pro. However, I not an expert in track bike, so you might want to listen to other people