Giving up Ti and going back to carbon
07-15-19, 01:57 PM
#51
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If titanium is good and carbon is also good, then titanium frame + carbon fork = double good, no?
07-15-19, 05:00 PM
#53
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07-15-19, 05:11 PM
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07-15-19, 07:10 PM
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The OP probably did not mean clearly superior in a race setting. I probably assumed that from the statement about the carbon frame failures at the Tour.
Titanium may may well be superior in some applications. It’s pretty clean that for many, many people, carbon is clearly superior.
-Matt
07-15-19, 08:01 PM
#58
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It was a rhetorical question in response to the statement that titanium was clearly superior to carbon. If titanium was so superior, you’d think someone would have applied that superiority to a racing frame.
The OP probably did not mean clearly superior in a race setting. I probably assumed that from the statement about the carbon frame failures at the Tour.
Titanium may may well be superior in some applications. It’s pretty clean that for many, many people, carbon is clearly superior.
-Matt
The OP probably did not mean clearly superior in a race setting. I probably assumed that from the statement about the carbon frame failures at the Tour.
Titanium may may well be superior in some applications. It’s pretty clean that for many, many people, carbon is clearly superior.
-Matt
We all know titanium can be as light as carbon, and perfectly fine in a race situation. Litespeeds history in the tour is set in stone.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cyc...tex-311140/amp
But why does it matter if all the pros are using carbon you ain’t no pro.
07-15-19, 08:12 PM
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We all know titanium can be as light as carbon, and perfectly fine in a race situation. Litespeeds history in the tour is set in stone.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cyc...tex-311140/amp
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07-15-19, 09:24 PM
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I got nothing against carbon as I said earlier. If you are pro and sponsored and you fall over and the carbon shatters like glass, it’s a quick bike swap with the team car.
We all know titanium can be as light as carbon, and perfectly fine in a race situation. Litespeeds history in the tour is set in stone.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cyc...tex-311140/amp
But why does it matter if all the pros are using carbon you ain’t no pro.
We all know titanium can be as light as carbon, and perfectly fine in a race situation. Litespeeds history in the tour is set in stone.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cyc...tex-311140/amp
But why does it matter if all the pros are using carbon you ain’t no pro.
I might also like titanium bikes if I were to ever try one. But I don’t think I can justify the extra cost. For me, that makes carbon clearly superior.
-Matt
07-15-19, 10:49 PM
#62
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I like carbon bikes because they’re light and comfortable. I literally could not care less what pros are riding.
I might also like titanium bikes if I were to ever try one. But I don’t think I can justify the extra cost. For me, that makes carbon clearly superior.
-Matt
I might also like titanium bikes if I were to ever try one. But I don’t think I can justify the extra cost. For me, that makes carbon clearly superior.
-Matt
Last edited by MyTi; 07-15-19 at 10:52 PM.
07-15-19, 11:05 PM
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+1
I'm just busting the OP's chops here. Titanium is a great material for bicycle frames, but it has it's drawbacks(just like all other frame materials).
#Beryllium
I'm just busting the OP's chops here. Titanium is a great material for bicycle frames, but it has it's drawbacks(just like all other frame materials).
#Beryllium
Last edited by noodle soup; 07-15-19 at 11:11 PM.
07-15-19, 11:08 PM
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All frames will fail eventually, well except for that cast iron univega I had about 20 years ago. You have to get them inspected. In the case of Ti the correct way to do it is to strip the frame of all parts and send it out for Non-Destructive Inspection (NDI) aka get it x-ray'd. It's the only way to really inspect the welds. If the welds are good then you're good to go. Pain in the ass to do? Yes. Cheap? Nope, but do you want to end up like the person with the busted weld further up the thread? I'd go with no, but these days everyone has their own thing...
07-16-19, 12:29 AM
#65
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Just wait until the frame cracks (could well have already happened, have you checked you bottom bracket welds today?), and ask them for an upgrade.
07-16-19, 01:34 AM
#66
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I've seen threads with cracked ti frames from poor welds. My bike has none of that thankfully. Any material can fail especially steel, aluminum, or Ti that wasn't welded right. Seeing that I got my votex second hand, if the welds were poor I would of thought it would of shown itself by now..I mean it is a 14 year old bike that I've ridden regularly for the past 2 years.
Any way same can be said for carbon. That little scratch you got on your carbonframe when you fell, could be a serious stress fracture/crack, and the only way you would know is if you got some kind of X-ray. In fact if your carbon bike is painted those micro fractures could be hidden by the paint.
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07-16-19, 03:53 AM
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How long has the OP been riding in the fog/moisture around SF/NorCal?
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07-16-19, 04:31 AM
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Does your Vortex have a 1” fork steerer or a 1-1/8” fork steerer? If it is the 1-1/8” one you may well be able to get a disc fork and convert it to a mongrel front disc caliper, rear rim brake setup.
For a budget conversion of your rear triangle to disc, they do make inexpensive adapter plates that permit mounting of disc calipers to rear triangles of bikes not designed for disc. There is an “RJ The Bike Guy” YouTube video where he does this conversion on an inexpensive mountain bike. Crude but effective.
Your Vortex rear stays being shaped as they are and made from difficult to drill titanium would be best left to a shop/builder that works in titanium. There have been threads dealing with cold setting titanium rear triangles to handle wider rear hubs on the framebuilder’s forum - again (from what I have read) working with titanium to predictably bend it requires an expert.
Have you checked with Litespeed? AFAIK they are still building titanium bikes in the USA (separate from Lynskey). They may have a solution for you. A couple of our club members here in Dayton have titanium bikes from the “new” Litespeed and they are stunning.
The snarky remarks that that folks seem to make on the road forum compared to the more rigorous discussions I’m used to on the classic & vintage forum does a disservice to your original query. I wish folks would stay on topic a little better...
For a budget conversion of your rear triangle to disc, they do make inexpensive adapter plates that permit mounting of disc calipers to rear triangles of bikes not designed for disc. There is an “RJ The Bike Guy” YouTube video where he does this conversion on an inexpensive mountain bike. Crude but effective.
Your Vortex rear stays being shaped as they are and made from difficult to drill titanium would be best left to a shop/builder that works in titanium. There have been threads dealing with cold setting titanium rear triangles to handle wider rear hubs on the framebuilder’s forum - again (from what I have read) working with titanium to predictably bend it requires an expert.
Have you checked with Litespeed? AFAIK they are still building titanium bikes in the USA (separate from Lynskey). They may have a solution for you. A couple of our club members here in Dayton have titanium bikes from the “new” Litespeed and they are stunning.
The snarky remarks that that folks seem to make on the road forum compared to the more rigorous discussions I’m used to on the classic & vintage forum does a disservice to your original query. I wish folks would stay on topic a little better...
07-16-19, 04:52 AM
#69
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Sounds good... but re-read the OP thread starter. I don't think there was any query whatsoever. In turn, this will typically always lead to thread going wherever it wants to go.
07-16-19, 05:22 AM
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07-16-19, 06:05 AM
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Agree. It wasn't a query at all. More of an announcement like "I'm switching to a different brand of cat food for my cat." There was really no need for the thread.
Last edited by seypat; 07-16-19 at 06:22 AM.
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07-16-19, 06:20 AM
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I really like my Litespeed titanium road bike but to properly convert it to disc brakes it would cost a fortune. Basically $1100 to get the disc tabs welded in the rear, remove the original brake studs, and a bunch of other miscellaneous stuff. Then it would cost me probably around $300 for shipping, and probably another $600 for an Enve carbon road bike disc brake fork. Then on top of that I'd still need to change my group to a disc brake group...and to keep things budget I'd probably settle on a 105 disc brake group which is another $600.
So total cost to convert an old Litespeed Ti road bike to disc...$2600...lol and who knows how good those welds are gonna be. I'm sure it'll be fine but who knows a lot can go wrong I guess.
I can easily get a carbon bike with a full Ultegra disc groupset, thru axles, all the bells and whistles, etc. easily for less than the cost of that modification/upgrade.
Unfortunately a new disc brake ti bike equivalent to my current Litespeed is going to cost around $6k with a good group. Just can't justify spending over $3k and up on a bike however.
So as much as I love Ti I am back to carbon.
So total cost to convert an old Litespeed Ti road bike to disc...$2600...lol and who knows how good those welds are gonna be. I'm sure it'll be fine but who knows a lot can go wrong I guess.
I can easily get a carbon bike with a full Ultegra disc groupset, thru axles, all the bells and whistles, etc. easily for less than the cost of that modification/upgrade.
Unfortunately a new disc brake ti bike equivalent to my current Litespeed is going to cost around $6k with a good group. Just can't justify spending over $3k and up on a bike however.
So as much as I love Ti I am back to carbon.
Or did you just love the fact that it was something other than carbon fiber
And if you loved Ti what would you call your newfound(and as yet unexplained)attraction to disc brakes?
Infatuation? Idolatry?
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07-16-19, 06:25 AM
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07-16-19, 07:04 AM
#74
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Soo... Carbon is nice but expensive, Titanium is nice but expensive, what about aluminum? I went down the same route, really wanting a disc brake road bike with nice carbon rims. I ended up building a full bike out of this Emonda ALR Disc frameset:
Here's a link to it
It's one grand and weighs 1131g for a medium.
My other bike is a rim brake 2016 Specialized Tarmac (full carbon frame) and I find them indistinguishable.
I actually find it a bit crazy to pay 5grand+ JUST FOR A FRAMESET from Litespeed like their T1sl (literally their top model) that weighs in at 1169g for their medium disc variant.
Here's a link to it
It's one grand and weighs 1131g for a medium.
My other bike is a rim brake 2016 Specialized Tarmac (full carbon frame) and I find them indistinguishable.
I actually find it a bit crazy to pay 5grand+ JUST FOR A FRAMESET from Litespeed like their T1sl (literally their top model) that weighs in at 1169g for their medium disc variant.
Last edited by firebird854; 07-16-19 at 07:11 AM.
07-16-19, 07:22 AM
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Soo... Carbon is nice but expensive, Titanium is nice but expensive, what about aluminum? I went down the same route, really wanting a disc brake road bike with nice carbon rims. I ended up building a full bike out of this Emonda ALR Disc frameset:
Here's a link to it
It's one grand and weighs 1131g for a medium.
My other bike is a rim brake 2016 Specialized Tarmac (full carbon frame) and I find them indistinguishable.
I actually find it a bit crazy to pay 5grand+ JUST FOR A FRAMESET from Litespeed like their T1sl (literally their top model) that weighs in at 1169g for their medium disc variant.
Here's a link to it
It's one grand and weighs 1131g for a medium.
My other bike is a rim brake 2016 Specialized Tarmac (full carbon frame) and I find them indistinguishable.
I actually find it a bit crazy to pay 5grand+ JUST FOR A FRAMESET from Litespeed like their T1sl (literally their top model) that weighs in at 1169g for their medium disc variant.
Last edited by seypat; 07-16-19 at 07:25 AM.
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