delbiker1 

Let me clarify on that. Most of the time, at least 95%, I am a solo rider and not on a structured ride. I do not set out purposely to catch up to, or pass, anybody anymore. I am no longer offended or insecure when someone passes me. I have never been one to purposely set out to drop another rider. I have no problem with someone jumping on my wheel as long as I do not sense that they are doing something to impede me or affect my safety. If and when I ride with others, I will do my share of the work. However, there are times when the pace I am doing requires passing others. When I say I get a kick out of it if they give me a surprised look, I do not mean that I gloat or feel better. I am simply amused by it. When I get on others back wheel, I stay there only if I know I can keep that pace, but feel I am not capable of getting around them and keeping up that pace as the lead. Otherwise, I will jump up and take my turn setting the pace, or drop off. I have never had a bad reaction from another rider from that behavior. If I think others are trying to drop me, I continue on as long as it is a pace I can,and want to do.

Finally, I am a very cautious rider, I pay attention to what and who is near. I have very limited trust in others, especially operators of vehicles and pedestrians. I consider my bike handling skills to be excellent, and have been told the same by others many times. As in anything, much skill depends not only on experience, but also on being prepared. I try to not have expectations, nor unexpected situations.

indyfabz

Heh. A good excuse to post a link to my finest thread ever:

https://www.bikeforums.net/general-c...ke-me-mup.html

What amazed me the most about the replies is how many people did not understand the scenario. I was imply riding my pace and catching up to the guy in front of me. That's when HE started to dial it up. I egged him on a bit by closing the gap a little, but then I dropped back. I just matched his pace every time he upped the pace. HE was the one racing me, not the other way around.

MinnMan

I am sure that you are a cautious rider, but let's take the scenario where i am riding and a stranger gets on my wheel. I don't want them there. Why? Because when you are pulling for somebody, you are, consciously or not, taking some part of the responsibility for their safety - for upcoming hazards on the road or traffic. You can say to yourself that they didn't ask you for that responsibility, and therefore it's all on them, but that isn't fully true. If you steer clear of a hazard and then they crash, are you really going to shrug and pedal on? I do not want strangers on my wheel and when they do so, I slow or stop in a measured way to get them off my wheel. The reasons why I don't want to be on a strangers wheel are the same.

caloso

Pretty sure it's mostly Sacramento folks.

Iride01 

If you ride a bike, just like an automobile, someone will be on your tail at some point. Don't over think the legalities, although anything is possible.

If someone gets on your wheel while you are riding, it's probably because they are getting ready to pass you and took you wheel for one of several reasons.

• They can't see far enough ahead on that part of the trail to be certain they can safely pass
• Traffic might be coming the other way, a biker, walker, jogger etc.
• Maybe they want to wait for better trail conditions before passing.

I'd doubt they got behind you just to get the few watts savings that one rider will provide them. Besides, they caught up with you so you are averaging a slower pace than them. I doubt that it is a strategy to improve their overall time.

Last year I came upon an older rider that was slowed down for a jogger. They were in a curve in the trail, so it wouldn't be safe to pass as visibility ahead was nil. My intention was to get on the other bikers wheel and give him time to pass since he was already on the jogger's "wheel" so to speak. However just before I get to him, he hears me, looks back....... and I swear I think he purposely braked.

No way I can stop in time and maneuver to avoid him at the same time, so I accelerated and passed him and the jogger, barely missing what I'd been expecting to be around the curve, traffic coming the other way.

So seriously, ease up on people that get on your wheel. I doubt they want to be there any more than you want them to. It's just the circumstance at that moment that they probably think they can't pass safely.

delbiker1 

Fair enough. My perspective, if I get on someones back wheel, I am not assuming that they will point out any hazards. It is still my responsibility to look out for myself. If they chose to signal, I appreciate it, but still do not trust that enough to let down my guard. If it is the other way with someone jumping on my back wheel, I will point out what I see and perceive to be worth caution. However, if they, for whatever reason, have a mishap that is not on me. If I do not feel comfortable with the rider, I will slow down until they go around me, or just pull to the side. I hope for the same from others.

MinnMan

Who said anything about legalities? If someone is on my wheel and I'm not warning them about upcoming hazards, that's unsafe. Period.

Sorry, but nothing you write here is close to my usual experience with this. I'm not talking about people being behind me for a moment. I'm talking about people trying to stay in my draft for a long period of time, and this happens with some frequency. Lots of people will get on my wheel when I am (initially) going faster then them. I pass them, they have enough watts to power up briefly to get on my wheel, and then they hang on there. Few of them are interested in or perhaps capable of passing me.

Iride01 

Well I can't relate to that. I just don't experience any riders around my area doing that. Sure there are always impromptu sprints with strangers that I pass and am passed by, but nothing that amounts to more than a couple minutes. Usually have some nice conversation or jabs at each other while together briefly.

MinnMan

I'm sure riders in your area do that. Maybe it's your style of riding that keeps them from doing it to you.
Note that this digression started when delbiker1 described doing it. (Note also that delbiker later clarified that he is extremely careful when he does do it.)

Cougrrcj

During Ohio's all-too-short commuting season -- I won't commute in the dark-dark, adverse weather, or when the temps are below 45 in the morning -- hence I only commute from the first of May to about the middle of August. The looks I get from other (car-bound) commuters when they see the white hair at the temples and white mustache it is almost comical. And yet I maintain a riding speed of ~20mph on my 12.5-mile commute each way. 60+ years old, riding a 30-45 year-old 26+-pound (as ridden) classic lugged steel road bike .

The best was a college girl in the car next to me (I ride past a local community college) that made a comment about my 'nice legs' as I was slowing for a traffic light. Then I turned to face her and she saw my 'age' -- her jaw dropped... "Thanks, Honey" was my reply... I couldn't wipe the grin off my face for the rest of my ride to work that day...

Carbonfiberboy 

This is so strange to me. I've been on maybe 1000 group rides and many, many event rides, and I've never experienced this sort of hostility. Cyclists are friendly and helpful, the boy scouts of sport. When I catch someone who's just a little slower and obviously in need of some help. I always offer a tow. I'm happy to tow. I'll often yell out,"Accelerate!" as I go by. I've towed people for 20 miles and glad to be able to do it! That's a bit of the subject of this thread, still being able to do it, and proud of that. There is no way that they're a danger to me unless I do something really stupid, so I make a point of not doing things like that. I also don't do anything stupid because I am also concerned about the safety of those behind me. I mostly don't point or call out because I still put my safety ahead of the rider on my wheel and I'm aware that if something goes wrong with me, it'll go wrong for them, too. The vast majority of randonneurs around here don't point. Everyone is responsible for themselves.

Which brings up my parable of the randonneur. Preface: It rains a lot in the PNW and for a variety of reasons, many brevets happen during our long rainy season. So I'm riding a brevet, solo, because mostly one does. A hundred people start and in 20 or 30 miles, no one is in sight. It's misting and I begin to see a yellow jacket in front of me. Over a few miles, I gradually overhaul this rider and sit their wheel for a bit, glad for a little rest. Then I pass, and sit their front for a bit before accelerating back to my pace. They don't take my wheel and gradually disappear into the mist behind me and we're both alone again. I think this attitude is peculiar to the randonneur mindset. When a randonneur sees a fellow rider fixing a flat alone on a lonely road, we yell out, "Need any help?" just after we go by.

Back to the subject of this thread, I'm obviously old. The most common thing I hear about that in long event rest stops is, "How do you do it?" My answer is, "Never stop."

MinnMan

Something is getting lost in translation. This is not about people drafting on group rides or events. It's about people (usually on MUPs) jumping on a wheel of someone on a solo ride. And it's not hostility. It's about my right to ride solo without having somebody trying to ride with me without even asking. Maybe that makes a different to your perspective, maybe it doesn't.

obrentharris 

I too have many of these experiences... but whenever I get a little full of myself I enter a cyclocross race or a competitive gravel event and am reminded what the really strong riders in my age group (65 plus) can do!
Pack fodder is the best I can hope for.
Brent

Carbonfiberboy 

No problem. I never ride MUPs so I don't know everything. I ride my road bike on the road. Safer.

Morg33

People who ride are fit and sometimes do not appear the age they really are! Very well done! I am anazed too when I meet people like you

Bassmanbob

This is very true. I started cycling at the age of 49, close to 6 years ago, riding only two miles per ride for the first two weeks. I finished those rides winded. In six months, I did my first 25. In one year, my first half century on my half century birthday. Eleven months later, I did my first century.

I'm turning 55 in a couple of months, and my daughters' friends are amazed that this fat old guy can do such things. I work with the public, always meeting new people, and they are amazed that someone can ride 25 miles at 4:30 AM, get ready for work and be there by 8 AM. "100 miles in one day? Are you nuts?" Last year was a semi-off year for me, so I'm currently losing weight and riding more again. I have plans for four centuries this year. Next year's goal is the one day option for the Cross Florida Ride which is 170 miles long. I did the two day option in 2018, but I won't be ready for the one day option this year. It's one of next year's goals.

I LOVE hearing about you folks in your 70's and 80's riding like you do! You're an inspiration to me. Thank you!

The Snowman

I always get interesting looks. I used to drive a WRX and have since traded that in for a MINI Cooper S. By comparison, my wife drives a Ford F-250 Super Duty (interesting combination, eh?).

I participate in inline speed skating events, both outdoor distance (10k+) and indoor short track (similar to the ice short track in the Olympics). I supplement my training with both outdoor cycling and indoor spin classes. When a typical young person that doesn't train much sees me out on the rail trails either skating or cycling at my usual paces (15-18mph avg on skates and 17-20mph avg on the bike), they usually try to keep up. They usually last for a while, but drop off.

bruce19

Just curious...which car do you like better? Three years ago I went form a Focus ST (which I really liked) to a Fiesta ST which is down by about 60 hp and found that I totally love this car.

Koyote

I don't get odd responses from young people, but some of my work colleagues and acquaintances, who are around my age (late 50s), act as if it's amazing that I can ride a bike over long distances. I just smile, and refrain from telling them "You could do it, too, if you chose to."

The Snowman

I actually prefer the MINI to the Subaru. I originally traded a 2nd gen MINI Cooper S (2009) in for the 2017 WRX Base, which I knew was a mistake after a few months of opwnership. The MINI is MUCH more fun to drive. The WRX was the worst driving car I've ever owned. Everything about it was rough. Hard to steer, hard to clutch, and hard to shift. All three cars are 6-speed manuals, which I love to drive. The MINIs you can throw into any corner at pretty much any speed and come out on the other side. I took the 2nd gen to a track day and I had an absolute blast.

The only thing I liked about the WRX was its initial power. The 2.4L motor threw you back in the seat w/ its 265+ HP (I had an aftermarket Borla exhaust on it, so it probably made closer to 300). The new MINI is pretty quick, but its only a few hundres pounds lighter than the WRX and only has 2/3 of the HP.

Koyote

If that's your "finest thread ever," you probably shouldn't brag about it.

Bill in VA

Interesting segue. When I was looking for a car a number of years ago, the contenders were the Mini-Cooper S Works, a Subaru WRX, or a used Mazda 323 AWD. I never found the Mazda 323, but tried a Mazdaspeed 3 (turbo), the WRX and the Mini. I was strongly leaning to the WRX, and on the way home from a test drive, passed a SAAB dealer and saw a gunmetal coupe, an off-lease, certified 9-3 Viggen. One drive and I was hooked and came back the next day and bought it. It used the Turbo engine of the 9-5, but a bigger turbo, and on full boost really pressed you back into the seat. It was the ONLY SAAB I felt lived up to the advertising hype of 'Born From Jets". Had it, loved it, and fortunately let it go about 5 months before SAAB went belly up so I did not get to take the financial 'orphan' beating. I will only say a WRX could lead until the aerodynamics and gearing of the SAAB kicked in above any legal limit..

Now for the "Do you ever..." part:

Funny thing is, I get as much of a rush from a steep downhill descent on my bike, a feeling that has not changed since my days on a single speed Columbia coaster brake bike or my first "10-speed" Peugeot in college days. The only difference is now I have more weight to stop, I wear a helmet, and actually do consider potential hazards. However, give me that long hill, minimal cross roads, with a long sight line, and I will use it.

Cougrrcj

Car-related rant from a Senior Citizen --

From someone who learned to drive in Mom's '68 Olds Delta Custom 2-dr fastback 'Holiday Coupe' with a fire-breathing, Premium-fuel-only 455-cubic inch 400hp (conservative) and 515lb-ft torque...

The late '70s and early '80s sucked, car-wise.

I mean really, a '74 Camaro Type LT with a 350 (5.7L)/manual trans that was rated at 145hp? I had one, I know! I later had a '85 T-bird Turbo Coupe with a 170hp 2.3L turbo/5-speed. Even by the late '80s, a 5.0L Marquis was only 160hp (170 with duals). Heck, I have a 89 Crown Vic LX (with a special-order police package 5.8L / 351) was only 180hp with dual exhaust! Thank God the Mustang GT 5.0 came along and helped revive a bit of horsepower to Everyman driving - (235hp by 1990).

A few years ago, I had leased a '15 Toyota Camry 4-banger -- and it had more horsepower/torque (2.5L Camry rated 178hp) than a 5.0L V-8 car from 15 years before. Heck, even my current '17 Taurus SEL (3.5L V-6) is 288hp! The advancements of today's computer-controlled engines is phenomenal! Look at the Shelby GT500 -- 760hp and 625tq from a (supercharged) 5.2L -- that passes emissions testing ...and still handles like you'd expect a Shelby to run a road course!... and has all the creature comforts like A/C, cruise control, automatic trans, ...!

kaos joe

I don't experience age being that much of a factor in who gets "taken aback". I think it's more a question of sedentary people who just can't wrap their heads around the very concepts. Some of us just exist in entirely another dimension of what floats our boats. You either get it or you don't.

I am perhaps even more amused by those of more urban sensibilities, for want of a better word. (My brother likes the term "over-civilized".) Just try telling them you're going to walk under no duress whatsoever into a roadless area harboring 4 legged predators, lacking stores or infrastructure or indeed any human structures at all, prone to weather so extreme no trees can grow, carrying everything you need except water for the week. No way! No WiFi? OMG. No cell service? OMG OMG OMG! Wait.....YOU GET WATER FROM STREAMS AND LAKES....THAT WAS TOUCHING THE GROUND???!!!!

These folks come in all ages.

Biker395 

Y'all are driving newer cars than I. My WRX is an old 2003 bugeye wagon. Perfect car for me (wagon, so I can sleep in it - AWD is terrific for ski trips and putting around in the back country - reasonably safe for it's day - fun to drive - and still running well), but a nightmare for a lot of people (turbo lag - driving a stick in LA traffic with a heavy clutch - pug ugly). I'm not sure what I'll buy when the Subie goes. Most cars today are either hyper expensive or boring ... they all look the same. Even Kias are looking the same as Range Rovers and Jags.