Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Fifty Plus (50+)
Reload this Page >

Roadside Bike Riding make you skittish?

Notices
Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

Roadside Bike Riding make you skittish?

Old 09-27-20, 02:59 PM
  #1  
5 mph
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 283
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 50 Posts
Roadside Bike Riding make you skittish?

The weather and mood has changed out here in the Pacific Northwest. That long days and fantastic sun are leaving, and with it, that feeling of immortality you get. It was raining heavily and windy last week. In the summer visibility was good, the roads dry and we weren't bundled up and roadside riding was easy. Now I got my hooded jacket, goggles and fallen branches and slippery roads to deal with.. Passing cars seem less friendly now . You get a lot of loud honks for no real reason. When I was younger I was a dare devil but at this age I'm more cautious Last week I realized for the first time cars whiz by sometimes a foot away or less from your bike on some roads, when the bike lane gets really narrow...just wondering if its my imagination or nerves or whether others have the same thoughts? Leaves two options, riding on the muddy trail or doing the same sidewalk route ever yday until spring comes
5 mph is offline  
Old 09-27-20, 03:51 PM
  #2  
jppe
Let's do a Century
 
jppe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,316

Bikes: Cervelo R3 Disc, Pinarello Prince/Campy SR; Cervelo R3/Sram Red; Trek 5900/Duraace, Lynskey GR260 Ultegra

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 651 Post(s)
Liked 879 Times in 408 Posts
I wonder if it’s pent up COVID issues from folks With less patience from being unable to do their normal thing? Regardless I haven’t experienced any more than the normal frustration by drivers in NC. For me if I’m concerned to the point I’m worried or it’s not fun I don’t ride. Typically when the temperatures get colder I do more gravel riding.
__________________
Ride your Ride!!
jppe is offline  
Old 09-27-20, 04:11 PM
  #3  
Iride01 
I'm good to go!
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,811

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6100 Post(s)
Liked 4,732 Times in 3,262 Posts
Not for me here. For the most part I have more issues with motorist trying to be too nice. On the start of our ride today, My son and I were first at the light out of the neighborhood. It had just turned red and the car behind us wouldn't get close enough to us for the sensor to know someone was waiting to go. So we missed the first change of lights and only the other side got to go. Thankfully another car came up in the right lane and tripped the sensor for the next round of light changes.

Usually I get more problems from other cyclist on the trail when they try to pass those going the same direction as them and I am coming the other way. Not sure why they think I'm supposed to slow down so they can pass traffic in their lane.

Sad to hear that y'all have so many issues out there with motorists. We aren't without a few moments of stupidness of motorists, but more often than not, cars, trucks, planes and trains aren't a big problem for me here. Large wide bass boats being towed behind a tiny car used to be an issue till they made the 3 foot rule and went on a media blitz for it right after they passed it.
Iride01 is offline  
Old 09-27-20, 05:02 PM
  #4  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 19,501

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3873 Post(s)
Liked 1,920 Times in 1,369 Posts
Originally Posted by 5 mph
The weather and mood has changed out here in the Pacific Northwest. That long days and fantastic sun are leaving, and with it, that feeling of immortality you get. It was raining heavily and windy last week. In the summer visibility was good, the roads dry and we weren't bundled up and roadside riding was easy. Now I got my hooded jacket, goggles and fallen branches and slippery roads to deal with.. Passing cars seem less friendly now . You get a lot of loud honks for no real reason. When I was younger I was a dare devil but at this age I'm more cautious Last week I realized for the first time cars whiz by sometimes a foot away or less from your bike on some roads, when the bike lane gets really narrow...just wondering if its my imagination or nerves or whether others have the same thoughts? Leaves two options, riding on the muddy trail or doing the same sidewalk route ever yday until spring comes
I've ridden all winter for many years in the PNW, usually one long rain ride/week on Sunday. I ride rural roads mostly north and east of Seattle. None of them have bike lanes, many have no shoulder at all beyond the fog line. I don't ride most of these roads during weekday rush hour, though there are some which have no rush hour and are always safe. I ride as close to the fog line as practical. I wear a Hi Viz jacket and have a 300 lumen flashing tail light on my left seat stay and a 300 lumen white flashing headlight mounted on my left fork blade. In the past 20 years, I've never had a problem with a vehicle passing too close, meaning one that might have scared me into moving further right.

The trick is to have these extremely bright lights and to run them in the daytime. They get a motorist's attention, you bet. I have a DiNotte tail light which I bought many years ago, aren't made anymore. The problem with most tail lights today is that they are made to mount on the seat post, which makes them absolutely useless for most riders because even a small bag can completely hide them. I did find one light which fits my criteria quite well, the Cygolite Hypershot 350 Bike Taillight, available on Amazon and other places. They also make headlights.

At night, this tail light will be too bright pointed straight back - you'll blind overtaking drivers. Point it down a bit toward the road for night use.
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Likes For Carbonfiberboy:
Old 09-27-20, 05:51 PM
  #5  
5 mph
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 283
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 50 Posts
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
I've ridden all winter for many years in the PNW, usually one long rain ride/week on Sunday. I ride rural roads mostly north and east of Seattle. None of them have bike lanes, many have no shoulder at all beyond the fog line. I don't ride most of these roads during weekday rush hour, though there are some which have no rush hour and are always safe. I ride as close to the fog line as practical. I wear a Hi Viz jacket and have a 300 lumen flashing tail light on my left seat stay and a 300 lumen white flashing headlight mounted on my left fork blade. In the past 20 years, I've never had a problem with a vehicle passing too close, meaning one that might have scared me into moving further right.

The trick is to have these extremely bright lights and to run them in the daytime. They get a motorist's attention, you bet. I have a DiNotte tail light which I bought many years ago, aren't made anymore. The problem with most tail lights today is that they are made to mount on the seat post, which makes them absolutely useless for most riders because even a small bag can completely hide them. I did find one light which fits my criteria quite well, the Cygolite Hypershot 350 Bike Taillight, available on Amazon and other places. They also make headlights.

At night, this tail light will be too bright pointed straight back - you'll blind overtaking drivers. Point it down a bit toward the road for night use.
.
Thats a great idea... the lights..
Also probably wise to not push it hard and pay attention to traffic and ride with safety as the main consideration .its the hills in this area that make it hard to keep a steady safe ride going ...I'm also going to drive my routes by car to see what the drivers are seeing

Last edited by 5 mph; 09-27-20 at 06:17 PM.
5 mph is offline  
Old 09-27-20, 06:17 PM
  #6  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 19,501

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3873 Post(s)
Liked 1,920 Times in 1,369 Posts
Originally Posted by 5 mph
.
Thats a great idea... the lights..
Also probably wise to not push it hard and pay attention to traffic and ride with safety as the main consideration..its the hills in this area that make it hard to keep a steady safe ride going .I guess I should just be wiser and use the smaller gears....
Yes, always hold your line. Be predictable. The lights will make sure that the cars see where you are. You then need to be where they expect you to be as they pass. I never "take the lane" except on a two lane bridge with nowhere else to go. I have a riding buddy who rides in the middle of the lane sometimes. He's been hit twice.
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Likes For Carbonfiberboy:
Old 09-27-20, 07:02 PM
  #7  
mpath
Recusant Iconoclast
 
mpath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
Posts: 2,560

Bikes: Look 695, Wilier Izoard

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Liked 58 Times in 29 Posts
I'm also in the PNW and almost exclusively road bike. I ride through winter unless there's snow/ice on the road. Proper riding gear and bike safety gear are a must - make yourself as visible as possible. Obviously pick and choose your route wisely even it it means driving to your starting point to be on quieter or country roads.
mpath is offline  
Old 09-27-20, 07:14 PM
  #8  
Kabuki12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,405
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 863 Post(s)
Liked 2,226 Times in 1,249 Posts
Since COVID I have been doing only roadside or bike “lanes” instead of the nice bike paths that are in our area. I found the bike paths and MUP’s are congested with very little room for cyclists . I am actually more comfortable dealing with traffic than I am with folks who will not give up a little room for a bike to get by. I found some pedestrians and dog walkers can be very possessive of “their “ space. Even when marked with a bicycle logo painted beneath their feet. I deal with the occasional driver that won’t give space , but for the most part , it has been good. Large trucks can be unnerving as well as city busses but that experience seems more rare than the inconsiderate behavior of some of the folks on MUP’s. I know the road is dangerous and I just have to trust that people will do the right thing. So far it has been ok and I don’t find myself getting frustrated as much. Every one must choose what works for them but I will take my chances on bike lanes and side of road cycling.
Kabuki12 is offline  
Likes For Kabuki12:
Old 09-27-20, 07:19 PM
  #9  
GlennR
On Your Left
 
GlennR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Posts: 8,373

Bikes: Trek Emonda SLR, Sram eTap, Zipp 303

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3004 Post(s)
Liked 2,433 Times in 1,187 Posts
You gotta go sometime, so just live you life.
GlennR is offline  
Old 09-27-20, 07:38 PM
  #10  
Papa Tom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,440
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 863 Post(s)
Liked 234 Times in 136 Posts
You are not imagining that riding on the road is more dangerous than ever. I think drivers who are paying full attention to the road are more the exception, rather than the rule, these days. Unfortunately, it only takes a second for a distracted driver in a 3,000 pound vehicle to change your life forever. And the news article about your unfortunate meeting with that driver will probably imply that the collision was your fault for having been on the road instead of the sidewalk (where bikes belong, of course!).
Papa Tom is offline  
Old 09-27-20, 10:17 PM
  #11  
5 mph
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 283
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 50 Posts
Sometimes I will drive the courses I ride. Some which I thought were safe were actually safe only because the drivers were so polite. It was quite a rude awakening.
5 mph is offline  
Likes For 5 mph:
Old 09-28-20, 06:11 AM
  #12  
Papa Tom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,440
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 863 Post(s)
Liked 234 Times in 136 Posts
Originally Posted by 5 mph
Sometimes I will drive the courses I ride. Some which I thought were safe were actually safe only because the drivers were so polite. It was quite a rude awakening.
Yes, when I drive many of the roads I bike, I am terrified for myself, the bicyclist.
Papa Tom is offline  
Likes For Papa Tom:
Old 09-28-20, 06:32 AM
  #13  
RonE
Senior Member
 
RonE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 78

Bikes: 2010 Giant Rapid - Trek 820 - 1968 Schwinn Continental

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 9 Posts
It may just be the result of the lack of traffic that I enjoyed while biking during the early days of COVID-19, but drivers now seem to be traveling at even higher speeds and paying less attention to their surrounding than before.
RonE is offline  
Old 09-28-20, 08:15 PM
  #14  
5 mph
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 283
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 50 Posts
Originally Posted by GlennR
You gotta go sometime, so just live you life.
we had that discussion before and we agreed why...nice to hear from you
5 mph is offline  
Old 09-28-20, 11:32 PM
  #15  
downtube42
Senior Member
 
downtube42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,804

Bikes: Trek Domane SL6 Gen 3, Soma Fog Cutter, Focus Mares AL, Detroit Bikes Sparrow FG, Volae Team, Nimbus MUni

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 878 Post(s)
Liked 2,019 Times in 1,055 Posts
I can't tell if motorists are actually less cordial than normal, or I'm just more on edge. Probably both, as we're all stressed.
downtube42 is offline  
Old 09-29-20, 09:25 AM
  #16  
Cyclist0100
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked 136 Times in 72 Posts
I agree with Carbonfiberboy about the use of lights during the day. I'm using the Cygolite Hypershot 350 taillight and Metro Pro 1100 front light on one bike and a pair of Bontrager Ion 200 lights on the other. They do make a difference, but I still need to stay alert and maintain awareness at all times. I also ride the sidewalks when there is no bike lane and traffic is heavy. On less crowded roads with no bike lane I stay in the road and ride about 3 feet from the white line. Some cars do not like that I take a portion of the lane, but it's proven to be much safer than hugging the white line.
Cyclist0100 is offline  
Old 09-30-20, 06:28 AM
  #17  
donheff
Senior Member
 
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Capitol Hill, Washington, DC
Posts: 1,503

Bikes: Specialized Tricross Comp, Custom Steel Sport Touring, Specialized Turbo Vado 4.0 SL

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked 40 Times in 27 Posts
Originally Posted by 5 mph
Sometimes I will drive the courses I ride. Some which I thought were safe were actually safe only because the drivers were so polite. It was quite a rude awakening.
+1. I too have done this and been alerted to how dangerous some roads are that feel OK while on the bike. A tight curve on a shoulder-less road is an accident waiting to happen. I dropped a couple of routes because of this. I'm in my 70s now and broke a hip and a shoulder in bike crashes years back. I don't want to repeat that at his age so I am more careful.
donheff is offline  
Old 09-30-20, 06:51 AM
  #18  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,059
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18320 Post(s)
Liked 15,299 Times in 7,231 Posts
Originally Posted by RonE
It may just be the result of the lack of traffic that I enjoyed while biking during the early days of COVID-19, but drivers now seem to be traveling at even higher speeds and paying less attention to their surrounding than before.
Same here in the Philly area. Less traffic=higher speeds=more accidents.
indyfabz is offline  
Likes For indyfabz:
Old 09-30-20, 08:12 AM
  #19  
BlazingPedals
Senior Member
 
BlazingPedals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Middle of da Mitten
Posts: 12,474

Bikes: Trek 7500, RANS V-Rex, Optima Baron, Velokraft NoCom, M-5 Carbon Highracer, Catrike Speed

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1511 Post(s)
Liked 733 Times in 454 Posts
I haven't been out much since the pandemic hit; but at 65 I've never been bothered much by traffic, at least on the roads I use. I may see a car or three in a mile, then go 5 miles without seeing one. Maybe you're on more heavily-traveled routes than me?
BlazingPedals is offline  
Old 09-30-20, 08:39 AM
  #20  
missinglink
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: North Central Tx
Posts: 99

Bikes: 2013 Marin Redwood - 2015 Specialized Allez Sport

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 19 Posts
Originally Posted by donheff
+1. I too have done this and been alerted to how dangerous some roads are that feel OK while on the bike. A tight curve on a shoulder-less road is an accident waiting to happen. I dropped a couple of routes because of this. I'm in my 70s now and broke a hip and a shoulder in bike crashes years back. I don't want to repeat that at his age so I am more careful.
I believe I saw pics of the result of one of your crashes on ER forum. I hope I never have to suffer through anything like that.

I ride country roads almost exclusively. I'm fortunate that most drivers are used to seeing bikes and seem to be courteous. I still try to time my rides so that I'm around the least amount of traffic as possible. Mid mornings on weekdays seem to be best. Sunday mornings are also good.
I run the cygolite metro combination front and rear on every ride. I usually 'scout' rides as well. Fast, or speeding traffic always rules out a route for me.
missinglink is offline  
Old 09-30-20, 08:43 AM
  #21  
jadocs
Senior Member
 
jadocs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 2,192

Bikes: Ti, Mn Cr Ni Mo Nb, Al, C

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 942 Post(s)
Liked 526 Times in 349 Posts
Nothing wrong with being cautious.

I have learned to trust my gut. If riding outside doesn't feel right for whatever reason that day, no matter how nice it may be outside. I ride indoors. This has only happened a handful of times.

No science or logic behind the above, just if it doesn't feel right I won't do it.
jadocs is offline  
Old 09-30-20, 09:42 AM
  #22  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 19,501

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3873 Post(s)
Liked 1,920 Times in 1,369 Posts
Originally Posted by Cycletography
I agree with Carbonfiberboy about the use of lights during the day. I'm using the Cygolite Hypershot 350 taillight and Metro Pro 1100 front light on one bike and a pair of Bontrager Ion 200 lights on the other. They do make a difference, but I still need to stay alert and maintain awareness at all times. I also ride the sidewalks when there is no bike lane and traffic is heavy. On less crowded roads with no bike lane I stay in the road and ride about 3 feet from the white line. Some cars do not like that I take a portion of the lane, but it's proven to be much safer than hugging the white line.
Why do you think that's safer? IME it's not, i.e. those who do that get hit, and particularly true on winding roads. Cars don't expect riders to be in the middle of the road and will pass much closer. A source of these accidents seems to be that the car is trying to pass with oncoming traffic and pulls in too early, hitting the cyclist, probably not being aware that the rider is doing 20 or so and thinking that bikes are almost stationary. Plus it POs the drivers, which adds to danger for all riders. It drives me nuts to see groups spread out across the whole lane when climbing some little hill. Stupid. Makes it impossible to single up.
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Old 09-30-20, 02:53 PM
  #23  
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,765

Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1384 Post(s)
Liked 1,294 Times in 819 Posts
Originally Posted by Papa Tom
You are not imagining that riding on the road is more dangerous than ever. I think drivers who are paying full attention to the road are more the exception, rather than the rule, these days. Unfortunately, it only takes a second for a distracted driver in a 3,000 pound vehicle to change your life forever. And the news article about your unfortunate meeting with that driver will probably imply that the collision was your fault for having been on the road instead of the sidewalk (where bikes belong, of course!).
Motorists need to be held accountable for causing injury or death, but most off far too easily. The new car designs, with their touch screen controls, contribute to the problem.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline  
Old 09-30-20, 02:54 PM
  #24  
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,765

Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1384 Post(s)
Liked 1,294 Times in 819 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz
Same here in the Philly area. Less traffic=higher speeds=more accidents.
Speed is, and always has been, a huge factor. We need more enforcement of speed laws.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline  
Old 09-30-20, 03:25 PM
  #25  
big john
Senior Member
 
big john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,107
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8191 Post(s)
Liked 8,851 Times in 4,396 Posts
Originally Posted by jadocs

I have learned to trust my gut. If riding outside doesn't feel right for whatever reason that day, no matter how nice it may be outside. I ride indoors. This has only happened a handful of times.

No science or logic behind the above, just if it doesn't feel right I won't do it.
It's a real thing. I've heard about this from bike messengers and felt it myself. When I get that sense I change the route or shorten the ride or at least become hyper vigilant.
One day I had a couple scares from cars and then I rode upon a skateboarder who had been hit and I went home right away. That day was an example of that sense.
big john is offline  
Likes For big john:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.