Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Folding Bikes
Reload this Page >

Helix Update?

Notices
Folding Bikes Discuss the unique features and issues of folding bikes. Also a great place to learn what folding bike will work best for your needs.

Helix Update?

Old 11-22-16, 09:10 PM
  #176  
jur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Albany, WA
Posts: 7,393
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by ThorUSA
Only their robot and positioner can't do anything yet
jur is offline  
Old 11-22-16, 11:22 PM
  #177  
pinholecam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 627
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 228 Post(s)
Liked 145 Times in 95 Posts
I don't understand all this delay.

So whats wrong with just doing the bike exactly (warts and all) as what the prototype is?

Even the need for robotics is not a necessity imo.
Ti frames have been hand welded elsewhere. (skill needed of course)
pinholecam is offline  
Old 11-22-16, 11:26 PM
  #178  
Joe Remi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NorCal
Posts: 1,453

Bikes: Haibike Sduro Trekking SL, Rivendell Appaloosa, Concinnity singlespeed, KHS mini velo (Japan market), Trident Spike trike

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 651 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 74 Posts
Originally Posted by pinholecam
I don't understand all this delay.

So whats wrong with just doing the bike exactly (warts and all) as what the prototype is?

Even the need for robotics is not a necessity imo.
Ti frames have been hand welded elsewhere. (skill needed of course)
To borrow an auto racing phrase, this fellow seems to have run out of talent.
Joe Remi is offline  
Old 11-22-16, 11:53 PM
  #179  
maxxevv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
If the so said equipment just arrived, then January 26th is not likely to happen.

It takes weeks just to set up a typical production line. And December starts next week, already. X'mas is in 4 weeks. January 26th is barely 3 weeks after the New Year break.

~7 work weeks to sort out from basically zero production till shipping out en mass ?
maxxevv is offline  
Old 11-23-16, 07:14 AM
  #180  
tcs
Palmer
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,580

Bikes: Mike Melton custom, 1982 Stumpjumper, Alex Moulton AM, 2010 Dawes Briercliffe, 2017 Dahon Curl i8, 2021 Motobecane Turino 1x12

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1646 Post(s)
Liked 1,785 Times in 1,041 Posts
Originally Posted by jur
...A new patent application has been lodged to cover the new design...Guesses, as no details have been divulged.
He's filled a patent application without divulging details?
tcs is offline  
Old 11-23-16, 09:22 AM
  #181  
ThorUSA
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Olney Illinois USA
Posts: 1,021

Bikes: to many

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
he is using your money to file patents :-( Than gets rich if somebody down the road comes up with a similar idea ... In the meantime ... he is asking for more orders ...
again I would be so happy if I am wrong
ThorUSA is offline  
Old 11-23-16, 11:46 AM
  #182  
spambait11
Señor Mambo
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 1,406

Bikes: TST roadie, Cannondale CAAD 3, Surly Karate Stokemonkey Leap, Tern Cargo Node, Helix Alfine; 36er and 29er Triton Unicycles; a couple Bike Fridays; one Brompton; RadPower Radburro

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by ThorUSA
Lol!

Peter's looks more impressive, though.
spambait11 is offline  
Old 11-23-16, 12:00 PM
  #183  
spambait11
Señor Mambo
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 1,406

Bikes: TST roadie, Cannondale CAAD 3, Surly Karate Stokemonkey Leap, Tern Cargo Node, Helix Alfine; 36er and 29er Triton Unicycles; a couple Bike Fridays; one Brompton; RadPower Radburro

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Hate to say it, but what else is new?

As long as you have other bikes to ride, no point in tripping as hard as others seem to do. LOT of other things in life to be thankful for!

Originally Posted by maxxevv
If the so said equipment just arrived, then January 26th is not likely to happen.

It takes weeks just to set up a typical production line. And December starts next week, already. X'mas is in 4 weeks. January 26th is barely 3 weeks after the New Year break.

~7 work weeks to sort out from basically zero production till shipping out en mass ?
spambait11 is offline  
Old 11-23-16, 01:41 PM
  #184  
jur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Albany, WA
Posts: 7,393
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by tcs
He's filled a patent application without divulging details?
I went back and re-read the Oct 12 update. The details are actually given, I seem to have not remembered properly. To unlock the fork, pull up and rotate to keep the lock open. To lock, simply push down and it self-locks.
jur is offline  
Old 11-23-16, 01:46 PM
  #185  
ward00
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
chill

Why not chill a little bit and give the Helix guy a chance to fail OR suceed. Good things are worth waiting for. I once had to wait over 2 years for a $6000 Renovo wood bike to be completed. The wait was more than worth it. The bike is spectacular. There is no reason to think that sooner or later Helix will reward us in a similar way.

Last edited by PhotoJoe; 11-23-16 at 04:49 PM. Reason: Deleted political content.
ward00 is offline  
Old 11-23-16, 01:48 PM
  #186  
jur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Albany, WA
Posts: 7,393
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by maxxevv
If the so said equipment just arrived, then January 26th is not likely to happen.

It takes weeks just to set up a typical production line. And December starts next week, already. X'mas is in 4 weeks. January 26th is barely 3 weeks after the New Year break.

~7 work weeks to sort out from basically zero production till shipping out en mass ?
Whatever other strengths the inventor has, estimating timetables accurately isn't one of them. I would be more than happy if a Helix arrives on my doorstep 6 months from now. Another year is more realistic, based on what we think is going on.
jur is offline  
Old 11-24-16, 12:05 AM
  #187  
Gibsonsean
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 229
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by maxxevv
If the so said equipment just arrived, then January 26th is not likely to happen.

It takes weeks just to set up a typical production line. And December starts next week, already. X'mas is in 4 weeks. January 26th is barely 3 weeks after the New Year break.

~7 work weeks to sort out from basically zero production till shipping out en mass ?
"There will not be a review of Helix before your first deposit is due. This is not intentional, we need your first deposit in January in order to begin ordering materials and components for your pre-order. Our first production run will begin late January and delivery of our Kickstarter bikes will continue until June when we begin manufacturing pre-orders. To ease your mind, you will be able to cancel you order and receive a refund at any point prior to delivery.

Thank you again for your pre-order."
Gibsonsean is offline  
Old 11-24-16, 01:26 PM
  #188  
mingo
Newbie
 
mingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 50
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by jur
Whatever other strengths the inventor has, estimating timetables accurately isn't one of them. I would be more than happy if a Helix arrives on my doorstep 6 months from now. Another year is more realistic, based on what we think is going on.
I'm the same way. Whether I receive it in June '17 or later, it's not life altering issue. I have other bicycles to enjoy. Heck, I just purchased a new brompton to replace my 16 year old one because I had 2 trips to europe and wanted to have a bicycle to use around town. For air travel, I will only fly with the Brompton, as it fits into the airline's normal suitcase without added fees requirements.

Unlike other product planners who are eager to put out the current design just to get the cash flowing, then work on improvements for version 2 and version 3 etc.. it seems to be Helix's designer wants a product as close to perfection as possible without any compromises and for that, I applaud him. Yes, he's made some mistakes with the casting vs. welding, but who has ever developed any product without going back and forth with various design elements.

Anyway....I'm a patient man... and winter's coming to the north east, so no riding of any kind..
mingo is offline  
Old 11-26-16, 11:08 AM
  #189  
bhkyte
Senior Member
 
bhkyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: York UK
Posts: 3,027

Bikes: 2X dualdrive Mezzo folder,plus others

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Whatever you think of the Brompton they dont actually fly.....
bhkyte is offline  
Old 11-27-16, 09:10 AM
  #190  
MrFlamey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
I actually mailed them after making a pre-order with a few questions. The first response was from Peter Boutakis, but the second response, which was about the Kickstarter backer bikes shipping before the pre-order deposit is due was the same as that posted above by GibsonSean.

Just in case anyone else in interested in the questions and responses, I'll post them here (note that my email is edited slightly):

Mr Flamey
Hi. It's great to hear the pre-orders have started and the goal is in sight. I've been super interested in Helix since it was announced and nearly kickstarted. I currently have a Tern Verge x10, which I bought because it's foldable and rides well, but with thousands of km and many folds I came to realise how flawed the design was and it made me see how incredible a design Helix is - I can't wait to get mine!

Could you tell me about the pros and cons of the hub geared Helix compared to the derailleur model? Does the hub make changing the wheel harder? How much extra weight is added by the hub? Are there any significant problems that might occur with a hub as opposed to a derailleur? Also, I noticed the description on your page says the hub is less efficient, but it does have a wider gear ratio, so seems like it may actually be a better option for me, as I live in Kyoto, which is surrounded by mountains, and frequently go on 100km+ trips.

Also, I haven't seen any quick-release handles, so can the wheels be easily removed for tyre changes, and does the asymmetrical front fork allow the front tyre to be removed without taking off the wheel?

Finally, are there plans to have official maintenance and replacement part information available on the Helix site or in a manual that comes with the bike? As Helix is such a unique design, I wouldn't really feel comfortable taking it to a regular bike shop for fixes and would prefer to just follow official instructions myself.
Peter Boutakis
I apologize for the delay in responding to your email. The team leaves some emails for me to answer and I've been incredibly busy.

First off thank you for your appreciation of the design. I'm well aware of the limitation and flaws in other folding bikes. I've been designing folding bikes for over 10 years at this point. The combination of a one piece main triangle, our patented locking devices and the bigger wheels and titanium frame come together put Helix well ahead of the pack. I say this with little humility because those other designs are decades old at this point.

With regards to your questions I'll answer them in point form below.

- the IGH does make changing the rear tire harder; it might even be considered slightly more difficult than the bike you own as the removable dropouts need to be removed to do this. It's not such a big deal but it's four screws instead of two nuts.
- the hub is about 2.5 lbs heavier than the derailleur version
- hub is very reliable but keep in mind if you are traveling and have a failure it is more likely that the nearest bicycle shop has a spare derailleur, it is less likely they'll have a spare hub in stock
- the asymmetrical fork does allow for the tire to be removed with taking the wheel off
- gear range on the Alfine is slightly wider and also able to accommodate a higher top speed as the rear sprocket can be changed easily; the front chainring is maxed at 42t so any gearing customization have to happen at the back
- chain drops are extremely unlikely on any of our drivetrains as we're using a narrow/wide chainring and a clutched derailleur or in the case of the Alfine a completely straight chain line
- by inefficient I meant that the planetary gear system has slightly more losses than the more simple derailleur. it's arguable however as derailleurs can become less efficient over time as they wear. My personal preference is the 10-speed based on weight and simplicity
- the website is currently quite outdated. I have a new release that I'm working on that will have a very extensive support and knowledge base section with manuals and images

I appreciate your willingness to work on Helix yourself and I think that it's a great option, but if you don't have time a local shop shouldn't have too much difficulty with it as the drivetrain the most other components are standard and readily available.

Thanks very much for your pre-order. Please don't hesitate to reach out again.

Regards,
Peter Boutakis
With regard to the time frame in which the bike ships, I don't care if there are delays as long as a good product is eventually delivered. Judging by how things have been handled so far, my impression is that Helix care about fixing problems BEFORE launching the bike; If they shipped a broken design to all the Kickstarter backers and a bunch of people got injured, it would destroy any chance of Helix becoming a successful brand, and likely make Mr Boutakis the target of expensive lawsuits. The fact that Helix has undergone so many changes and delays actually gives me a bit of faith that they really are trying to start a bicycle company and do it properly. After all, the potential profit from being the only company that can sell such a ground-breaking bicycle design are far larger than what they got on the Kickstarter.

Having said that, I do hope that backers gets their bike before next June, which is when the pre-orders are supposed to ship...
MrFlamey is offline  
Old 11-27-16, 07:31 PM
  #191  
Gibsonsean
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 229
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 4 Posts
@Mr Flamey thanks for posting this. Having come across Helix after the Kickstarter campaign closed, I have been eagerly anticipating being able to order one of these for coming on a year but not as long as some, and with no money down.

The design is a genuine step change, promises much and clearly has widely inspired great passion, and commensurate frustration and cynicism with the repeated delays. The inventor's poor expectation management around timeframes notwithstanding, I too am glad the success of the Kickstarter campaign has afforded him the opportunity to refine his design and hopefully get its realisation right before putting it in our hands.

The revised bike shown in the 12th Oct backer update looks worth the wait. I will be putting my money where my heart is come 20th Jan and eagerly, hopefully and frustratedly waiting for initial backer feedback whenever actual delivery happens, which of cousre may well slip beyond the currently promised end of Jan.
Gibsonsean is offline  
Old 11-29-16, 07:54 AM
  #192  
spambait11
Señor Mambo
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 1,406

Bikes: TST roadie, Cannondale CAAD 3, Surly Karate Stokemonkey Leap, Tern Cargo Node, Helix Alfine; 36er and 29er Triton Unicycles; a couple Bike Fridays; one Brompton; RadPower Radburro

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by bhkyte
Whatever you think of the Brompton they dont actually fly.....
...especially with how much they weigh, how much they cost, and the outright refusal of the company to update their frames and components for the 21st century.

"Boat anchor" is a more apt description.
spambait11 is offline  
Old 11-29-16, 05:13 PM
  #193  
jur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Albany, WA
Posts: 7,393
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Gibsonsean
@Mr Flamey thanks for posting this. Having come across Helix after the Kickstarter campaign closed, I have been eagerly anticipating being able to order one of these for coming on a year but not as long as some, and with no money down.

The design is a genuine step change, promises much and clearly has widely inspired great passion, and commensurate frustration and cynicism with the repeated delays. The inventor's poor expectation management around timeframes notwithstanding, I too am glad the success of the Kickstarter campaign has afforded him the opportunity to refine his design and hopefully get its realisation right before putting it in our hands.

The revised bike shown in the 12th Oct backer update looks worth the wait. I will be putting my money where my heart is come 20th Jan and eagerly, hopefully and frustratedly waiting for initial backer feedback whenever actual delivery happens, which of cousre may well slip beyond the currently promised end of Jan.
There is the possibility of buying a backer's right. There were 2 up for sale by the same backer, who had to pull out. That was quite a while ago, not sure if that's still available.
jur is offline  
Old 11-30-16, 05:13 AM
  #194  
Gibsonsean
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 229
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by jur
There is the possibility of buying a backer's right. There were 2 up for sale by the same backer, who had to pull out. That was quite a while ago, not sure if that's still available.
Open to this if anyone is selling.
Gibsonsean is offline  
Old 11-30-16, 09:34 PM
  #195  
jur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Albany, WA
Posts: 7,393
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Gibsonsean
Open to this if anyone is selling.
See post #21. I pm'ed you their email address.
jur is offline  
Old 12-01-16, 03:28 AM
  #196  
Gibsonsean
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 229
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 4 Posts
Thanks Jur. Unfortunately I seem to be 7 posts short of PM privileges! I'd better get contributing
Gibsonsean is offline  
Old 12-01-16, 03:35 AM
  #197  
Gibsonsean
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 229
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 4 Posts
BTW for those non-backer's who are keen to see backer updates: https://m.blog.naver.com/PostList.nhn...20Helix%20Bike
Gibsonsean is offline  
Old 12-01-16, 03:53 AM
  #198  
jur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Albany, WA
Posts: 7,393
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
So can't you read PMs either?

I also asked the original poster of the offer if it was still going. Should I hear back, I'll let you know.
jur is offline  
Old 12-01-16, 05:13 AM
  #199  
Gibsonsean
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 229
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 4 Posts
Cheers
Gibsonsean is offline  
Old 12-01-16, 07:20 AM
  #200  
hy3998
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jur
See post #21. I pm'ed you their email address.
Can you also send their email address to me?
hy3998 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.