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Why are Giant bikes so competitively priced?

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Why are Giant bikes so competitively priced?

Old 01-23-20, 07:37 AM
  #26  
Russ Roth
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
As far as what @Russ Roth was saying: Anyone who lists bike weights is generally lying to you in some way. Usually the bike is missing some key components to make it functional or it is the lowest weight they were able to get it and production is not near it. Now some companies are relatively close but I don't trust much unless I put it on the scale. Rodriguez Bicycles out of Seattle actually had a great story about that: https://www.rodbikes.com/articles/we...-a-minute.html. Always makes me laugh. Also they make a verified 13.5 pound steel bike which isn't too shabby.
I tend to trust it when they specify a size, just don't expect the weight to include pedals or a seat pack which you won't find on any bike on the floor unless they're test ride pedals. In my case one of the kid's bikes was exactly the claimed weight the other was a tenth overweight according to my scale and despite both being 24" with front suspension they were lighter then the 20" giant we bought last year. While the wife's bike was a quarter lb underweight but that might be a difference in size. Tires, tubes, and frame can have a lot of variables to weight that can produce a moderate difference. Being bored in a shop one winter with a new park scale we spent a day weighing everything. Drivetrain and most parts only have a couple grams variance to one another across the same like. So 3 of the same der were within a couple of grams, most parts didn't match published weight. Tires, tubes, and rims had a good deal of variance that could mess up the results.
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Old 01-23-20, 10:14 AM
  #27  
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As mentioned, economy of scale. And more expensive doesn't always mean better, regardless of what some brands would like you to believe.

Love my Revolt, might be adding another Giant to the stable. Great bikes, and their warranty service is really good too. I know of two people who were in crashes and had their frames replaced, no questions asked.
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Old 01-23-20, 10:49 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by rebel1916 View Post
Campy is in fact better.
^ This is bait to chase you down a rabbit hole and I am not going to take it.

I don't know if there is even a way to quantify such things but I think Shimano is way underrated because they're not 'cool' and don't lack the pinache of a a euro brand like SRAM or Campy.

Just because Shimano is ubiquitous, doesn't make their stuff bad. Any rate. You can have your Campy stuff for your coffee shop conversations. You can find me riding. (Full disclosure, my current bike has a SRAM groupset LOL)
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Old 01-23-20, 11:38 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by davei1980 View Post
a euro brand like SRAM
Srsly, dude?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRAM_Corporation

"SRAM LLC is a privately owned bicycle component manufacturer based in Chicago, Illinois, United States, founded in 1987."

I'm not a tech head and even I knew that.
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Old 01-23-20, 11:41 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by PDKL45 View Post
That's their thing, though. Their bikes are just like Toyota Corollas: they're not particularly innovative or exciting, but they offer decent quality for a slightly better price than many competitors, they're readily available in a lot of markets and they work just fine. To me it's not really an elephant in the room; it's their whole brand identity. Decent, non-exciting bikes for a reasonable price.
I think it’s unfair to say they’re not innovative. The original TCR basically invented (well, borrowed/stole from MTB) compact frame geometry and has influenced how every road bike has looked ever since. More recently they’ve been there or thereabouts as frames have transitioned to the light-and-aero-with-discs configurations that just about all major companies have now.
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Old 01-23-20, 11:43 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Srsly, dude?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRAM_Corporation

"SRAM LLC is a privately owned bicycle component manufacturer based in Chicago, Illinois, United States, founded in 1987."

I'm not a tech head and even I knew that.
SRAM joined the big boys when they took over the old Sachs-Huret factories in Germany. Rival was originally the name of a Sachs line of road bike components. So SRAM has some Euro-cred.
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Old 01-23-20, 11:47 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by davei1980 View Post

a euro brand like SRAM
I feel like a lack of knowledge is almost a prerequisite these days.
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Old 01-23-20, 11:53 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by rebel1916 View Post
I feel like a lack of knowledge is almost a prerequisite these days.
Says the guy who thinks Campy is the end all and be all.... ever tried actually stopping on their brakes? There was a time in which they themselves referred to their brakes as "speed modulators"

How many 2019 TDF teams ran DA groups vs. all the rest?

And yes, SRAM has Euro roots and is popular among white American dudes who think it's cool because it's not Shimano.

As for which is the best component supplier, it's not really something you can objectively measure but I would suggest Shimano's market share and the sheer number of pro teams running DA groups puts them solidly #1 ; SRAM has some really innovative thinking, especially in the gravel/MTB world which I think earns them #2 , Campy may have the history but nostagia can only get you so far so I think they're #3 three but hey, at least you're still on the podium bud!

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Old 01-23-20, 12:02 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Leinster View Post
SRAM joined the big boys when they took over the old Sachs-Huret factories in Germany. Rival was originally the name of a Sachs line of road bike components. So SRAM has some Euro-cred.
Yes, just like we consider Opel and Fiat euro cars despite which American automaker owns them at the moment. Same as we consider Husqvarna dirt bikes to be Swedish even though they are (or were, when I quit riding them) made by Cagiva (Italy), although they may now be made by KTM now which is an Austrian company.... IDK....

SRAM is modern day Sachs, for all intents and purposes.....
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Old 01-23-20, 12:12 PM
  #35  
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Been in the retail end of bike biz since 1982. Have sold every major brand out there and anyone who says Giant underspecs bikes to get the price point down is simply mistaken. When comparing apples to apples, it is plain to see that the brands are all similarily spec'd. For example, a Specialized brand stem is not better or less than a Giant brand stem. Not here to defend Giant, they can stand on their own quite easily, just want to voice what I have experienced in the biz since 82.

Simply put, Giant is a manufacturer of many things bicycle related. They are very vertically integrated when it comes to the production of bike frames and forks. Trek, Specialized, Raleigh, etc. are not manufacturers. They are design and marketing companies. They do not have the capacity to manufacture the majority of their products, and some are unable to manufacture anything at all.

In 1992 when our shop picked up Giant Bicycles, we had the same question. How is it we can sell the same machine as Trek, but at a lower price. The answer was simple: it comes direct to you from the manufacturer. Yep, that simple.
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Old 01-23-20, 12:40 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by davei1980 View Post
Campy ...

^ This is bait to chase you down a rabbit hole and I am not going to take it.
You're the one who injected Campy into the discussion.

Originally Posted by davei1980 View Post
SRAM has Euro roots ...

SRAM is modern day Sachs, for all intents and purposes.....
SRAM purchased Sachs, just like it purchased RockShox, QUARQ, Avid, Truvativ, and Zipp. That hardly gives it Euro roots.
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Old 01-23-20, 12:48 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by davei1980 View Post
Says the guy who thinks Campy is the end all and be all.... ever tried actually stopping on their brakes? There was a time in which they themselves referred to their brakes as "speed modulators"

How many 2019 TDF teams ran DA groups vs. all the rest?

And yes, SRAM has Euro roots and is popular among white American dudes who think it's cool because it's not Shimano.

As for which is the best component supplier, it's not really something you can objectively measure but I would suggest Shimano's market share and the sheer number of pro teams running DA groups puts them solidly #1 ; SRAM has some really innovative thinking, especially in the gravel/MTB world which I think earns them #2 , Campy may have the history but nostagia can only get you so far so I think they're #3 three but hey, at least you're still on the podium bud!
I never knew Chicago was in Europe...

You keep doubling down and digging deeper.
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Old 01-23-20, 01:29 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by davei1980 View Post
And yes, SRAM has Euro roots and is popular among white American dudes who think it's cool
You want to elaborate a little, bud?
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Old 01-23-20, 02:24 PM
  #39  
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My frame doesn't have a name on it, how are others supposed to judge if my bike is good or bad?

Last edited by u235; 01-23-20 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 01-23-20, 02:39 PM
  #40  
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Volume. They make a lot of them
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Old 01-23-20, 02:49 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by PDKL45 View Post
That's their thing, though. Their bikes are just like Toyota Corollas: they're not particularly innovative or exciting, but they offer decent quality for a slightly better price than many competitors, they're readily available in a lot of markets and they work just fine. To me it's not really an elephant in the room; it's their whole brand identity. Decent, non-exciting bikes for a reasonable price.
This is just not true. As one counter-example, a couple of decades ago Giant defined the look of a modern road bike with the TCR. (edit: noticed this point was made above). If you look at most outlet's "best of the year" awards, Giant always features heavily. For example, last year the TCR, Propel, Reign and Defy all won tons of awards in their respective categories. Giant carbon construction is common cited as the highest quality and most technically advanced in the industry (they actually weave their own carbon, for example). Giant also doesn't use a lot of proprietary weirdness like Trek or Specialized, making their bikes more reliable and much easier to work on.

Giant may not be the "sexiest" brand out there, but arguing that their bikes are middling or nondescript just isn't correct.
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Old 01-23-20, 03:08 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
You want to elaborate a little, bud?
Or just take it at face value and dont try to create controversy. Studies continually show that enthusiast hobby cyclists are overwhelmingly white and average higher than the median income. This means the disposable income available can be marketed to, so things can be 'cool'.
Im not saying the other poster is right, but sometimes when a stereotype is said and it doesnt help or hurt anyone, it can just be said without others needing to take issue.
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Old 01-23-20, 03:13 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by davei1980 View Post
SRAM is modern day Sachs, for all intents and purposes.....
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Old 01-23-20, 05:42 PM
  #44  
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Giant does use its fair share of non-standard parts. D-fuse seatposts, the Conduct hybrid mechanical-hydraulic disk braking system, their own power meter, 1-1/4" oversized steerers that make buying stems a bit more annoying, just to name some off the top of my head. Cost-cutting is definitely a reason behind some of those designs- e.g., the Conduct meant they could use mechanical brake hoods with hydro brakes.
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Old 01-23-20, 06:37 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by surak View Post
Giant does use its fair share of non-standard parts. D-fuse seatposts, the Conduct hybrid mechanical-hydraulic disk braking system, their own power meter, 1-1/4" oversized steerers that make buying stems a bit more annoying, just to name some off the top of my head. Cost-cutting is definitely a reason behind some of those designs- e.g., the Conduct meant they could use mechanical brake hoods with hydro brakes.
I imagine novice bike buyers get hoodwinked all the time believing they are buying a higher end model because a few components are marked Ultegra but when you go down the list half the bike is composed of in-house brand parts and generic wheelsets. Blah!!!

I do not want to get into a pissing match and I am not an apologist for how bike companies build and market their products. I will likely never buy a new bike because at my pricepoint, most bikes are crap! Better off buying used.
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Old 01-23-20, 09:41 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
This is just not true. As one counter-example, a couple of decades ago Giant defined the look of a modern road bike with the TCR. (edit: noticed this point was made above). If you look at most outlet's "best of the year" awards, Giant always features heavily. For example, last year the TCR, Propel, Reign and Defy all won tons of awards in their respective categories. Giant carbon construction is common cited as the highest quality and most technically advanced in the industry (they actually weave their own carbon, for example). Giant also doesn't use a lot of proprietary weirdness like Trek or Specialized, making their bikes more reliable and much easier to work on.

Giant may not be the "sexiest" brand out there, but arguing that their bikes are middling or nondescript just isn't correct.
You and Leinster make good points, and I may have spoken to soon, especially with regard to their carbon technology.
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Old 01-24-20, 06:14 PM
  #47  
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I view a complete new bicycle as a frame/fork with a bunch of stuff on it. In general, if the name on the frame is also making the wheels, cranks, brakes, and such they maybe on the lower end or risk some proprietary to it. The frame geometry is important as the combination of everything attached to it. That "everything attached" I end up swapping out to meet my needs and at some point it barely resembles the bike it once was except for the frame/fork. I wonder how so many people are happy with the bike as it is. Maybe I am just odd sized or picky about my components. Not really level of components but the size and fit. For example.. I'd take a Tiagra of my preferred size and chain rings over the wrong Ultegra every time. I want very specific drop bar style and size, I want a very specific MTB bar size, grips, bar tape, tires, crank size, gears, pedals and seat (last two are obvious). How are so many people buying a bike and it is just perfect? I could not image buying a bike and tossing off the cranks, wheels, bars, and some smaller things like a new stem and tires. The one with the bars I like or crank size I desire has 3 other things I wouldn't like. I'd think I'd be forcing myself to like it as is or use some type of fallacy to trick myself into thinking it is perfect. The grumpy old man just wishes frame/fork selections and select components were the norm and a general more cost effective option but I understand the market and why it's not. Done with my rant that is not related to this thread.
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Old 01-26-20, 09:22 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth View Post
I tend to trust it when they specify a size, just don't expect the weight to include pedals or a seat pack which you won't find on any bike on the floor unless they're test ride pedals. In my case one of the kid's bikes was exactly the claimed weight the other was a tenth overweight according to my scale and despite both being 24" with front suspension they were lighter then the 20" giant we bought last year. While the wife's bike was a quarter lb underweight but that might be a difference in size. Tires, tubes, and frame can have a lot of variables to weight that can produce a moderate difference. Being bored in a shop one winter with a new park scale we spent a day weighing everything. Drivetrain and most parts only have a couple grams variance to one another across the same like. So 3 of the same der were within a couple of grams, most parts didn't match published weight. Tires, tubes, and rims had a good deal of variance that could mess up the results.

I would never expect to have the weight of a seatbag of any sort. Some people pack light and some people pack heavy. For my normal road kit I have kept pretty minimal but for touring I have a ton of extra stuff and then I also have a bike packing seat bag which I sometimes use for commuting as well which can have all sorts of different weight.

Underweight is always nice unless you are in UCI competition!
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Old 01-26-20, 09:58 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by badger1 View Post
Giant's carbon technology (r/d, production methods, etc.) is second to absolutely no one's.

As others have pointed out, economies of scale come into play as well, in two senses. First, Giant produces massive numbers of frames, not only for their own brand but for many others, including many of the 'cachet' names. For example, the Treks that have been suggested to you as alternatives will have frames made by ... Giant, for Trek.

Second, as pointed out also here, economies of scale mean that Giant gets preferential supplier pricing from the likes of Shimano for components.

The result: if you like a particular Giant bike, and it fits you, you lose absolutely nothing at all by going with that rather than a competitor's equivalent, and you will typically pay significantly less.

Disclaimer: I have only a very small dog in this fight. My two main bikes are Specialized, but I do own an older (2005) Giant mtb that I still use throughout the summer. It has been and still is a great bike. I like Specialized, but wouldn't hesitate to buy another Giant bike if it was right for me.
ugh second to no one? that's a bold claim! Giant is second to no one only if that no one uses Giant factory.

But there are others that don't use Giant. Look and Time make their own carbon. BMC weave their own carbon for the Impec (now discontinued).
Time and Look have superb quality control, probably best in the business.

If we're talking about manufacturing your low to mid level carbon fiber bikes, then Giant is superb here because this is the bulk of what their factories produce. But if we're talking about leading edge and quality control at the higher end bikes, I will take Look and Time over Giant and everybody else.
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Old 01-26-20, 10:15 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
ugh second to no one? that's a bold claim! Giant is second to no one only if that no one uses Giant factory.

But there are others that don't use Giant. Look and Time make their own carbon. BMC weave their own carbon for the Impec (now discontinued).
Time and Look have superb quality control, probably best in the business.

If we're talking about manufacturing your low to mid level carbon fiber bikes, then Giant is superb here because this is the bulk of what their factories produce. But if we're talking about leading edge and quality control at the higher end bikes, I will take Look and Time over Giant and everybody else.
You do that.
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