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New Bike

Old 02-15-20, 06:47 PM
  #1  
Bluesfrog
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New Bike

Just picked up a new Trek Verve + 2. Still getting all set up. Put on a front rack, front camera/light, paniers, Monkey Light on the rear, studded snow tires, and Brooks saddle. Gray small step through frame seems heavy. The electronics say I went 3.? for my first ride. It picks up without too much sudden burst of power. I didn't want a race car. I just want something I can use to get the wife riding again and then build an electric for myself. I figure on giving it to her if I can cajole her into riding with me. I still have my 520 and have maintained it even with 6,000 miles, and two bottom brackets, don't know how many pedal sets. I'm thinking about a front hub drive unit at high power and mildly overvolted. I have been reading books and magazines for several years for this. But the Bosch mid drive called to me. I rode one two years ago at Biscari Brothers Bicycles in Liberty MO. They are my go to shop. Like all good shops they take care of any bike you buy new from them, for a year. So after 12 years' commuting on one of their 520s and four MS rides later I bought this Verve + 2. I'm just waiting for one of my buddies to make fun of my riding a step through. I'm going to tell them in 1897, a divorced wife invented the safety frame with the top tube going across. You guys know why! And yes, I used to sell cars. Be Well, Bluesfrog..
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Old 02-17-20, 04:46 AM
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Congratulations on your new bike. Very nicely equipped bike.
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Old 02-18-20, 12:06 AM
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You absolutely do not want an overvolted anything in the front fork of a bicycle. It will destroy it, even with a torque arm. Anyway, overvolting isn't necessary in 2020 and Class 3 operation. Just get a system rated for legal levels of power. 750W in a mid-drive or geared (rear) hub will get you going as fast as anyone needs to go. Besides, if you give the wife the Verve and build yourself a rocketship the "she can't keep up" issue gets repeated all over again.
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Old 02-19-20, 03:30 PM
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OH, she must have been pissed at her man.

one of the best things on e-bikes as you can run studded tires without cutting your speed in half like you do with an analogue bike...

If you want power, put the hub motor in the rear, not the front. Front forks are not designed for power, and when something goes wrong, you end up in the hospital - especially if you lose the front end at speed...
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Old 02-20-20, 10:55 PM
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The Trek 520 is a steel frame bike that could take a front motor, but why take chances? Go with a rear hub motor if you are going with a hub motor.
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Old 02-21-20, 11:58 AM
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And I forgot to say Thanks for the likes, 4 likes in 4 posts. Thanks for the comments. I like this bike and the Brooks seat with springs is probably a good thing. There is no suspension front or rear on this bike. But a suspension seat post. I can tow a trailer if I want lots of grocery capacity. I use panniers to go to work on the bike. I commuted for 12 years by bike. This adds another dimension to riding to work. A bit late getting out? Hit a higher level of assist. But I leave at 0600 for an 0700 start time. Even a flat probably won't cause me trouble. And I forgot to say thanks for the 4 likes in 4 posts. Be Well, Bluesfrog.
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Old 02-24-20, 02:08 PM
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I immediately put on panniers, front rack, and front Fly 12 for Be Seen and legal record. I will add the Fly 6 as soon as I figure out a mount for it. I don't like to ride anymore without my lights and cameras. You just never know what will be seen. Oh yes an important item, A sprung seat from Brooks. With no suspension I thought the seat with suspension post would help make things more comfortable. I had a cancer scare a few years ago so I am carefuller than thou.(technical terms) The Verve + 2 I got is a step through, which I am sure I said before. The Verve + 2 now only has 10 miles showing. On the first trip to work at 0400 a 1/2 mile from the house the chain came off the front sprocket as I was going downhill but prepping for a stop ahead. It was dark, has two chain guards and I couldn't see if it was balled up at the top or bottom. I thought I figured it out and started the chain back over the top of the ring and it wouldn't go over. So I walked it back to the house and drove the truck. That was last Tuesday, and Wednesday I went back to Biscari's Bicycle shop with it. He put on a new chain as the original was a bit crooked. I might just have been a bit wound up at the situation at 0400 and the new ride quit me. Dave was a gentleman about it as he always has been. A good Bike shop is most important when you buy a bike. Woblety Mart only wants your dollars. No aftercare. They will give you another one just like the last one if you complain. And their bikes have never held up to 52 weeks a year of commuting. RANT OVER. Be Well, Bluesfrog.

Last edited by Bluesfrog; 02-29-20 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 02-26-20, 05:52 PM
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I think I read somewhere that front mounted hub motors should not exceed 400 watts or so. So yes, I can see how a high torque 750 watt front mounted hub motor could present a safety risk.

Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
OH, she must have been pissed at her man.

one of the best things on e-bikes as you can run studded tires without cutting your speed in half like you do with an analogue bike...

If you want power, put the hub motor in the rear, not the front. Front forks are not designed for power, and when something goes wrong, you end up in the hospital - especially if you lose the front end at speed...
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Old 02-26-20, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by edwong3 View Post
I think I read somewhere that front mounted hub motors should not exceed 400 watts or so. So yes, I can see how a high torque 750 watt front mounted hub motor could present a safety risk.
A front bicycle fork (non through axel) is really not designed to take any torque. It doesn't take much to spin the motor in the drop out, and then you are at risk of the front wheel falling off or getting jammed up. If the fork is steel, it will bend and probably hold together. If it is aluminum (or CF) it will break and then it gets nasty. A torque arm will add a large margin of safety.
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Old 02-27-20, 01:58 PM
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Absolutely, I never stated that a front hub motor can be used without a torque arm. Also, the fork must be robust enough to safely endure the pull from a strong motor. Headsets must be up to the task as well. The only uses I see for a front mounted hub motor are on something like an adult trike for example, and again, probably under 500 watts.

Yes I actually did read the story of someone who tried to electrify their bike using a front hub motor conversion kit and had the wheel pulled out from the drop outs when they hit the throttle. Maybe they didn't tighten the axle nuts sufficiently. Who knows since none of us were there.

It can be done but it is a sensitive place to power the bike from is what I am trying to say.

Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
A front bicycle fork (non through axel) is really not designed to take any torque. It doesn't take much to spin the motor in the drop out, and then you are at risk of the front wheel falling off or getting jammed up. If the fork is steel, it will bend and probably hold together. If it is aluminum (or CF) it will break and then it gets nasty. A torque arm will add a large margin of safety.
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Old 02-29-20, 06:58 PM
  #11  
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Maybe I could put a front and rear hub, both 250s or 350s and overvolt the 48V to 52V. I am just wanting to play and I probably will link them as pedal assist with a torque sensor in the crank. I know which style motors I want but not sure on the rating. I know how to build the battery and believe I have the information to set the system up. It will have torque arms. Did I mention torque arms? I know which display I want and think which charger I want. We will see. The rear brakes will be converted to hydraulic and both motors hooked up with regenerative braking which will greatly increase my stopping power. If I have forgotten something, Grin from Canada will assist me in picking up the extras. Thanks for all your help guys. Be Well, Bluesfrog.
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Old 03-03-20, 08:30 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by Bluesfrog View Post
I immediately put on panniers, front rack, and front Fly 12 for Be Seen and legal record. I will add the Fly 6 as soon as I figure out a mount for it. I don't like to ride anymore without my lights and cameras. You just never know what will be seen. Oh yes an important item, A sprung seat from Brooks. With no suspension I thought the seat with suspension post would help make things more comfortable. I had a cancer scare a few years ago so I am carefuller than thou.(technical terms) The Verve + 2 I got is a step through, which I am sure I said before. The Verve + 2 now only has 10 miles showing. On the first trip to work at 0400 a 1/2 mile from the house the chain came off the front sprocket as I was going downhill but prepping for a stop ahead. It was dark, has two chain guards and I couldn't see if it was balled up at the top or bottom. I thought I figured it out and started the chain back over the top of the ring and it wouldn't go over. So I walked it back to the house and drove the truck. That was last Tuesday, and Wednesday I went back to Biscari's Bicycle shop with it. He put on a new chain as the original was a bit crooked. I might just have been a bit wound up at the situation at 0400 and the new ride quit me. Dave was a gentleman about it as he always has been. A good Bike shop is most important when you buy a bike. Woblety Mart only wants your dollars. No aftercare. They will give you another one just like the last one if you complain. And their bikes have never held up to 52 weeks a year of commuting. RANT OVER. Be Well, Bluesfrog.
The derailing problem is a known issue with the early releases of the Verve+ 2. Trek is aware of this and will replace the chainring with a narrow wide chainring at no cost under warranty to fix this issue. My local dealer is replacing mine today.
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Old 03-03-20, 05:00 PM
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I was not aware there was a problem but found it out. I'm not sure I understand about the size of the chainring? Narrow, wide? Please clarify? It was not fun at 0400 and quite dark. It was cold but I dress accordingly in the winter. It was just a frustration. All gone! The bike is fun. It was cool to have a buddy ride in on his Yamaha roadbike and park by me. He noticed right away it was electric. I allowed as I would trade him straight up for his Yamaha, and let him ride the electric home tonight at 2300. He declined but said he would like to have both his road bike and a Verve style bike. I never know if he is kidding me or serious. But we worked together about four years hauling Inmates around the state of Misery. So we have a bit of fun with each other whenever we can get to joking. Maybe he's serious and I sold another bike for Biscari Brothers Bikes. Please tell me more about the chainring/chain problem Korax. Be Well, Bluesfrog.
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Old 03-04-20, 07:38 AM
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Verve+ 2 derailing

Originally Posted by Bluesfrog View Post
I was not aware there was a problem but found it out. I'm not sure I understand about the size of the chainring? Narrow, wide? Please clarify?... Please tell me more about the chainring/chain problem Korax. Be Well, Bluesfrog.
Hi Bluesfrog : About narrow-wide chainrings: https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/blo...ainrings-guide

They're replacing my chainring with a Wolf Tooth narrow wide. All under Trek warranty.

Electric Bike Review review of Verve+ 2 is here:
https://electricbikereview.com/trek/verve-plus-2/

Scroll down to see comments, including derailing issue. If you google around, you'll see a bunch of people have had this problem.

BTW So far my Verve+ 2 is easily given me the most fun I've ever had on a bike!
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Old 05-12-20, 02:42 PM
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I still only have about a hundred miles on the bike. The chain came off yesterday and I will call my bike shop soon. If they have something definitive to say I will relate it to you guys at some point. Thanks and Be Well, Bluesfrog.
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Old 05-12-20, 04:45 PM
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Sent photo to the bike shop per owners' instructions. They wanted the serial number stamp photo to send to Trek for a warranty claim. Will see how long it takes for Trek to get it in gear. I really don't want to lose a chain anytime but especially if entering or on a highway. Some destinations require highway use. As usual the shop was right on it. Be Well, Bluesfrog.
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