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No country knows how many people have Coronavirus

Old 04-02-20, 03:38 PM
  #101  
Rajflyboy
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Originally Posted by alo View Post
the truth is, there is no country in the world where it is known how many people have coronavirus. They only know the results of those who have been tested, and that is only a small proportion of the population. The only way they could have accurate records, would be to test everyone in the country. Then retest them from time to time, as they may get it later.

So countries where more testing is being done, appear to have more people infected, and countries where less testing is being done, appear to have less people infected. The statistics we see are far from accurate, and that is in places where they are trying to be honest.

Then there are countries where they are trying to present a good image, so the country looks good. Myanmar does not have any coronavirus, if you believe what you say. A large proportion of the income in countries in s e asia comes from tourists. It is important to make things look good so more tourists will come.
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Old 04-02-20, 03:59 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
Post a link to the article. The only link you've posted in this entire thread was a link previously posted by others. We only have your word of what you say your son has told you. It's the same as overhearing a Rush Limbaugh broadcast where he gives no sources (ever) and simply says "trust me". There are only a handful of people in this world that I believe when they tell me something without verification.
OK. If you won't go to P&R where the links have been posted many times I guess I'll have to bring P&R here. The first is the link that I sent to Forrest. The second is about 15 minutes long and may provide a culture shock for you on what the Chinese put up with to isolate the virus. The gentleman in the video is a cinematographer so you can choose to believe he's lying if you wish. After getting off to a bad start in the first three weeks of the appearance of the virus, The Chinese did what we will not do here. It worked. Meanwhile while people to to spring break beaches here, the infection rate skyrockets and the death toll climbs steadily. At this point I really don't care if you trust my word or not. I'll not bother posting in this thread again.

https://time.com/5796425/china-coronavirus-lockdown/

https://youtu.be/_UNKr7ot5J8
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Old 04-02-20, 05:43 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by maddmaxx View Post
OK. If you won't go to P&R where the links have been posted many times I guess I'll have to bring P&R here. The first is the link that I sent to Forrest. The second is about 15 minutes long and may provide a culture shock for you on what the Chinese put up with to isolate the virus. The gentleman in the video is a cinematographer so you can choose to believe he's lying if you wish. After getting off to a bad start in the first three weeks of the appearance of the virus, The Chinese did what we will not do here. It worked. Meanwhile while people to to spring break beaches here, the infection rate skyrockets and the death toll climbs steadily. At this point I really don't care if you trust my word or not. I'll not bother posting in this thread again.

https://time.com/5796425/china-coronavirus-lockdown/

https://youtu.be/_UNKr7ot5J8
I can't play in P&R. I wasn't authorized when I requested it long ago, and I decided that's a good thing for myself so I won't request it again. Because of that, I don't look deeply into the threads in there.

Truly, I hope you are right and I am wrong on the subject of under-reported deaths in China due to Covid 19. However, my 55 years on this earth living in urban sprawl has turned me into a curmudgeonly skeptic on many topics.
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Old 04-02-20, 09:25 PM
  #104  
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The story has made the NYT, which doesn't make it true of course, but its out of the realm of conspiracy theories.

Its behind a paywall, so I will just quote a couple of excerpts.
But American intelligence agencies have concluded that the Chinese government itself does not know the extent of the virus and is as blind as the rest of the world. Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

Bureaucratic misreporting is a chronic problem for any government, but it has grown worse in China as the Communist leadership has taken a more authoritarian turn in recent years under Mr. Xi.
The American intelligence about understated numbers predates recent reporting in the Chinese news media that the death count in Wuhan could be 5,000 or more, double the official number. Intelligence officers have not verified the press reports and have left them out of their reports, according to people briefed on their work.

American officials cautioned that even with their own sourcing, many of the intelligence agencies’ warnings to the White House since the beginning of the outbreak have hewed relatively closely to reports from journalists, who have been aggressively reporting on the coronavirus outbreak in China and the Chinese government’s efforts to suppress reporting about its spread.
Officials also said that China’s underreporting of its pandemic totals was unsurprising, saying that official statistics from the country are often lies.
I have no special knowledge of China or epidemiology or statistics, so I try to defer to the experts. Who are not always right, but are more likely to be right than random people on the internet.
I don't believe the crack pot theories of millions dead, or people being cremated alive, but its pretty likely that China is under reporting their numbers, probably by a lot. Its also likely that it is currently more or less under control, with a few hot spots flaring up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/u...rus-china.html
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Old 04-03-20, 04:27 AM
  #105  
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https://www.theepochtimes.com/long-l...s_3295048.html
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Old 04-03-20, 07:17 AM
  #106  
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This thread and the discussion of China are utterly pointless. We know that in the nature of things, all countries are underreporting the number of infections simply because there is no way to ascertain the number of people who never report their symptoms or even never develop symptoms. It is also likely that the numbers of deaths are being underreported because people may be dying at home alone and that causes of deaths may have been misattributed to other causes.

Who is to blame for the pandemic is a political question that isn't terribly important right now. Whether the numbers from China are in good faith right now is more a question of whether they can be relied on in letting us know whether China's measures are a model for other countries. The answer to me is rather obvious--the numbers can't be relied upon and even if they could be, it wouldn't be a model for exactly the same reason. The government in China exercises a level of social control currently well beyond the capacity of most of the world. The people charged with the responsibility of reporting numbers in China do so almost literally with guns pointed at their head--reporting numbers that show that the government's policies aren't working in China is extremely hazardous to your own health. That's not a conspiracy theory, it's been in the very nature of the regime. And even if those numbers are accurate, it is individualized monitoring and control of the entire population that is allowing them to do it. We really don't have the policing agencies capable of doing that, and we'd have to fundamentally alter the nature of our entire society to do so. I'm pretty sure we don't want to make that deal--China had to kill millions to achieve it.
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Old 04-03-20, 11:30 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
This thread and the discussion of China are utterly pointless. We know that in the nature of things, all countries are underreporting the number of infections simply because there is no way to ascertain the number of people who never report their symptoms or even never develop symptoms. It is also likely that the numbers of deaths are being underreported because people may be dying at home alone and that causes of deaths may have been misattributed to other causes.

Who is to blame for the pandemic is a political question that isn't terribly important right now. Whether the numbers from China are in good faith right now is more a question of whether they can be relied on in letting us know whether China's measures are a model for other countries. The answer to me is rather obvious--the numbers can't be relied upon and even if they could be, it wouldn't be a model for exactly the same reason. The government in China exercises a level of social control currently well beyond the capacity of most of the world. The people charged with the responsibility of reporting numbers in China do so almost literally with guns pointed at their head--reporting numbers that show that the government's policies aren't working in China is extremely hazardous to your own health. That's not a conspiracy theory, it's been in the very nature of the regime. And even if those numbers are accurate, it is individualized monitoring and control of the entire population that is allowing them to do it. We really don't have the policing agencies capable of doing that, and we'd have to fundamentally alter the nature of our entire society to do so. I'm pretty sure we don't want to make that deal--China had to kill millions to achieve it.
Listen man. First, China is flat out purposely lying about their numbers, that's not even debatable at this point. Only a hard core leftist marxist puppet would believe anything those POS's would claim. That's what communist regimes do to save face and stay in power. The reason the focus is on them is because, aside from the fact it started there, their lies about their statistics screwed the rest of the world and they way they responded to the virus. If they had been truthful back in November and December then countless thousands of lives around the world would have most likely been saved. The CCP needs to be eradicated from the face of the earth.
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Old 04-03-20, 12:31 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Listen man. First, China is flat out purposely lying about their numbers, that's not even debatable at this point. Only a hard core leftist marxist puppet would believe anything those POS's would claim. That's what communist regimes do to save face and stay in power. The reason the focus is on them is because, aside from the fact it started there, their lies about their statistics screwed the rest of the world and they way they responded to the virus. If they had been truthful back in November and December then countless thousands of lives around the world would have most likely been saved. The CCP needs to be eradicated from the face of the earth.

Well, good luck accomplishing that with a BF thread. If you actually read my post saying that the extreme level of social control exercised by the CCP is based on terrorizing the population by virtue of having killed millions of Chinese people, I guess I'm having a hard time seeing how you could see that as something written by a "hard core leftist puppet." My point is that even if what they are saying is true (which I agree it isn't), it isn't useful information to us because we'd need our government to become a terror regime in order to carry it out. I'm assuming that's not a trade-off most of us would want to make.

Right now, we need to be more focused on shoring up our medical system and responding to the emergency on our shores. Your eradication project might need to wait a little bit.
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Old 04-03-20, 01:01 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Listen man. First, China is flat out purposely lying about their numbers, that's not even debatable at this point. Only a hard core leftist marxist puppet would believe anything those POS's would claim. That's what communist regimes do to save face and stay in power. The reason the focus is on them is because, aside from the fact it started there, their lies about their statistics screwed the rest of the world and they way they responded to the virus. If they had been truthful back in November and December then countless thousands of lives around the world would have most likely been saved. The CCP needs to be eradicated from the face of the earth.
Thus continuing the racism that leads to the beating of US citizens of Chinese descent here in this country. Good show. We need to see bigots who step right out there and call for the eradication of people. It warms the heart.
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Old 04-03-20, 01:25 PM
  #110  
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