bonsai171

I'm considering buying either a Renegade steel or Niner Rlt9 RDO. One of my concerns is the geometry. The Niner looks to have a more relaxed position, and the seat tube is much lower than the front end. I've ridden a RDO on rough gravel before, and it was very comfortable. The RDO frames run around $2300, and the Jamis is $850. Should I save up and get the RDO instead? Would it be worth it?

Dave

mstateglfr 

Can you clarify what 'the seat tube is much lower than the front end' means?

Both frames have similar BB drop and are within a couple mm of on each other.
Do you just mean that the niner' top tube slopes more?

They are very different costs and different material.
To compare like material, there is a Carbon Renegade frameset too...https://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/renegadeelite_frame.html

bonsai171

Yes, the Niner top tube slopes more. I have heard that a more sloped top tube will have more compliance. These frames are definitely worlds apart in cost and design. I haven't ridden a Jamis, but the RDO is pretty sweet, rides nice, and weighs a lot less than the Renegade steel. Does Jamis even sell that carbon frameset anymore? I didnt see that listed in their website.

dwmckee

You will get a variety of opinions on here of course. For me, I own a Steel Renegade and have ridden the 9er as well. The 9er has a nice paint job and is somewhat ligter, but I do not feel it is worth the extra cash unless you have a lot of it to spare.. The Reengade is an extremely popular bike and in certain years you can get a carbon frameset, nit sure about this year. A dealer still may be able to order ome for you even if it is not listed. The 9er is made in smaller batches which can drive up the cost and Jamis does almost no advertising to keep teh cost down. There is no proprietary magic in making a steel frame as they have been making them the same way with the same materials for decades. The Jamis is probably the best value for a steel frame you can get anywere and it is quite well made, just not a boutique brand. If you have cash and care about cachet get the 9er. Jamis for a gerat bike and a great deal. This bears out in the bikes sold numbers if you look around. Jamis has also been around sicce the 1920s too and is a very trusted company with great warranty service if you ever find you are in a situation where that matters.

bonsai171

I do think the Jamis Renegade is a great bike. It is one of my top picks for a gravel build. That frameset is 6lbs. The RDO is 4 lbs. Doubt I would regret building the Jamis, but if I were to build that, it would be a long time before I could potentially swap frames and go to an RDO.

Hypothetically, if I bought both, and built both up with identical components, would the 2 lbs in frameset weight be noticable? I'm not racing any gravel races, only myself on Strava and my gravel buddies. I'm currently riding a 32 lb mtb, and the Jamis build would be around 20 lbs. Pretty sure I'll feel that 12 lb difference.



Dave

mstateglfr 

Itd be tough to say 2# is noticable when riding recreationally. Yes it's a difference that can be measured over long rides with plenty of hill climbing. No, that measured difference wont be significant for recreational riding and enjoyment.

I would care more about geometry fitting the feel/style of riding I want, the look of the bike, and design features before considering 2# of weight.

dwmckee

Saving a piond in a set of wheels is a huge difference you can feel in the fisst pedal stroke. Saving 2 pounds in a frame is hardly noticabe. It would almost be equivalen of having your body weight fluctuate two pounds and you likely never feel that one way or the other. Ten pounds you might feel. but not two...

Smitty2k1

Not sure of exact models, but Bike Insights is an incredible website to compare geometry, they have several RLT and Renegade models to chose from:
https://bikeinsights.com/

SilverRubicon

99spokes also a great tool for comparing bikes. https://99spokes.com/

csrpenfab

Wow, didn't know the Niner RDO bare frame ran $2300! Makes me even happier I scored a full Ultegra 4 star build when Excel was closing them out for $2800 delivered with no tax. About 3,000 miles into it, zero regrets and I'd probably pay full price if I had to replace it. I've owned a lot of high end bikes over the years, but this one does it for me.

chas58

IMHO, 2lbs isn't a big difference, unless you are doing a lot of climbing or start/stop.

In my experience, it depends how much power I'm putting down. If I'm going for a spirited ride at 250-350 watts, it doesn't make much difference. But If I'm hammering and doing 500 - 1500 watts (competitive conditions) - the responsiveness of a good carbon bike is amazing. My steel bike just seems to soak up my energy when I put the hammer down.
I like them both. Took the steel bike out today, took the carbon one out yesterday. Steel is great for long rides, but for short hard sprints or competitive riding I'll take the carbon bike.

bonsai171

Excel runs some pretty amazing sales at the end of the year for prior year models. Nice bike btw! They had the RDO frameset on sale for $1400 not too long ago. How was your experience purchasing from them? I might just wait till the end of the year and see what they offer.

Dave

csrpenfab

My experience with Excel was nothing short of perfect. Prior to this bike, I had purchased a hand built set of MTB wheels from them and that was an excellent experience as well. Although the Niner RDO's they had for $2800 were labeled as "Demos", when I called to inquire, I was told that only a few had actually been built up for in store use. They had a 56cm in stock that was new in box, never built. The tech told me they are required to pull the bike out, build it up to ensure it's all set, and then re-box for shipment to me. That took all of 5 days to get it from CO to my home in CA. I really like how they ship the front wheel in a separate box to prevent damage. The bike arrived in perfect condition and assembly was as simple as installing the bar and adding sealant to the Stan's tubeless wheels that already had the tires mounted. Within 20 minutes I was riding it.

To top it off, they ship free and didn't charge any sales tax. I would not hesitate to buy another from them. Keep an eye on Jenson USA too. They often has some screaming deals on Niner's.

chas58

I'm thinking if you still haven't decided, you should just split the difference and get the RLT Steel...
https://ninerbikes.com/products/rlt-9-steel

Happytrails1963

I noticed that about Jenson too, some nice prices on many bikes. Thats a pretty large price difference between the 2 bikes you wanted opinions about which would include a bunch of other bikes in between those 2 bikes. Have heard good things about the RLT steel. The Kona Rove NRB is a nice bike as well. Noticing a lot of new bikes have the 1x setups. Its intrigueing!

Toadmeister

I ride a 2019 Jamis Renegade Exploit with a 1x11 and love it. Steel frame, carbon fork, 40mm Donally Explor at 40psi, smoothest ride I’ve ever had.

bonsai171

Was seriously considering the Rlt 9 steel for a while. It is more expensive than the Jamis, and weighs more (6.8 lbs) too.

Dave

mstateglfr 

6.8#?! That has to be an error on whatever site you visited. No brands weigh their largest size so that's either a medium or one of the small frames since that's how the game is played unfortunately.
My 853 gravel frame and carbon fork, that uses the same DZB downtube(so same butting) as Niner is 400g lighter and I ride the largest size(effectively a 64cm frame). This would put the largest size niner at probably 600g heavier than my frame. Naw, that's crazy talk.

The niner frame isnt light, to be clear, but if it's really that heavy its absurd.

DorkDisk

Quality modern steel frames should weigh in on the low side of 5lbs

This is from the Jamis website, 853 Niner should be about the same:

bonsai171

To be clear, I'm talking about frameset weight, not just the frame.

Dave

DorkDisk

I understood, I was trying to say 6.8 is high.

This is from Niner's blog:



.67 lbs of axles and headset, seatpost collar? Perhaps.

bonsai171

They are both pretty close based on that. Is the Niner frame worth almost twice the $$ as the Jamis?

Dave

dwmckee

Nah. You are paying a lot extra for a lot of branding and advertising.