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Who is Hambini?

Old 10-28-19, 06:17 AM
  #1  
brooklyn6640 
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Who is Hambini?

It,s all on the tittle, serious?
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Old 10-28-19, 06:59 AM
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'you mean the guy Hambini? Owner (presumably he owns the company) of Hambini Performance Engineering? .. BB supplier? bearings...etc.
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Old 10-28-19, 07:46 AM
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He does a lot of bearing- and BB-related videos on YouTube, and sells bearings. Based in the UK I believe. Claims to have mechanical engineering credentials, and seems knowledgeable. To be fair anyone can seem credible to a layman depending on how good of a salesman they are, but I don't pick up any of that from his videos.

I recently ordered some NTN-brand radial bearings from him and he was responsive and the product appears to be genuine. They were a bit pricey, but I got tired of replacing Enduro bearings on my wheels and BB's that seem to go gritty after a year or so, so I figured I'd give a highly-rated Japanese brand a try on one of my hubs. Haven't gotten around to it yet though.

Last edited by Metaluna; 10-28-19 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 10-28-19, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Metaluna View Post
He does a lot of bearing- and BB-related videos on YouTube, and sells bearings. Based in the UK I believe. Claims to have mechanical engineering credentials, and seems knowledgeable. To be fair anyone can seem credible to a layman depending on how good of a salesman they are, but I don't pick up any of that from his videos.

I recently ordered some NTN-brand radial bearings from him and he was responsive and the product appears to be genuine. They were a bit pricey, but I got tired of replacing Enduro bearings on my wheels and BB's that seem to go gritty after a year or so, so I figured I'd give a highly-rated Japanese brand a try on one of my hubs. Haven't gotten around to it yet though.
NTN bearings are expensive because they are the good stuff. Along with SKF and ***, they are worth the premium in my opinion.
Dang auto censor. Fischers Aktien-Gesellschaft
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Old 10-28-19, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
NTN bearings are expensive because they are the good stuff. Along with SKF and ***, they are worth the premium in my opinion.
Dang auto censor. Fischers Aktien-Gesellschaft
Hah, I suspected that's what you meant. I was going to suggest Foxtrot Alpha Golf . I believe he sells those also, by the way.
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Old 10-28-19, 09:15 AM
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I looked up the guy. I am a trained engineer and can say that from my perspective he seems credible. Trained as an aerospace engineer. Seems to do things correctly.

This YouTube video highlights his approach. I like the his work:


Last edited by WizardOfBoz; 10-28-19 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 10-28-19, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
NTN bearings are expensive because they are the good stuff. Along with SKF and ***, they are worth the premium in my opinion.
Dang auto censor. Fischers Aktien-Gesellschaft
Isnít that what they smoke in the UK?

Take that censors!
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Old 10-28-19, 10:00 AM
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Further research highlights some counter-arguments

https://flocycling.com/blogs/blog/fl...ni-accusations
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Old 10-28-19, 11:15 AM
  #9  
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Reletedly, and regarding earlier thread that @brooklyn6640 started about BB30 bearings, I sent an email to enduro with quetions about their bearings and seals. Hambini doesn't like Enduro because they use larger clearance (c3) on their bearings than does NTN (which uses standard CN clearance). Also, in the other thread, @brooklyn6640 had asked about angular contact bearings, which got me wondering about that issue. Below are my questions and Enduro's response:
------------------------------------------------------
My note to Enduro:

I am in the market for replacement bearings for my BB30 bike. I am using SRAM Red cranks.
I am looking for a good balance between performance (low drag) and durability and am a bit overwhelmed by the choices you offer in the 6806 size.
I don’t think angular is right for me because crank loads are mainly radial and I am not confident my cranks allow sufficient preload adjustment.
I am drawn to ABEC 5 with the SRS seals because they seem to offer low drag but with adequate protection from the elements. Is that a fair assessment? How do they compare to ABEC 3 with LLB on drag and the degree to which the seals contact the inner race?
Also, which of your 6806 bearings are C3 and which are CN. Which do you recommend for BB30 applications. Seems like ABEC5 are CN, while others are C3. Is that correct?

Enduro response

Your email was forwarded to me and I’ll be glad to help. Not be contrarian, but speaking from experience, angular contact bearings have clearly proven to outlast their radial counterparts in bottom bracket applications. Bearing warranties plummeted after we switched nearly all of our bottom bracket offerings to angular contact bearings. And, importantly, customers have been equally impressed with the performance. The Enduro A/C bearings that we use are more of a hybrid angular/radial bearing with just 15-degree angle. The fact is that almost every bottom bracket, when the free play of the crank is adjusted out, ends up slightly pre-loading the bearings. Your SRAM Red crank is absolutely set up to provide the proper amount of preload for our angular contact offerings.

Almost all bearings we sell (and Enduro produce) are C-3. Some sellers conflate internal bearing clearance ratings such as “CN” with a precision machining rating, or in other words, insinuate that a CN is a higher quality bearing than C-3. Internal clearances and precision tolerances have nothing to do with each other. Simply put, the C-3 and CN ratings are strictly about how much free space is around the ball bearings. Unless a manufacturer has a specific design reason for wanting less clearance around the ball bearings, there is no inherent value in less clearance. In fact, depending upon how tight of press fit a bearing is, having less clearance could lead to binding inside the cartridge and premature failure.

If you have had no corrosion issues with your bottom bracket bearings in the past and are looking for the best performance value with a limited budget, the ABEC 5 angular contact chromium steel bearing option is best:

https://www.enduroforkseals.com/prod.../71806LLB.html

If you have had no corrosion issues in the past and are looking for the least rolling resistance, I recommend the ABEC 5 “CH” series angular contact ceramic hybrid option:

https://www.enduroforkseals.com/prod...H71806LLB.html

If you have had corrosion issues with previous bottom bracket bearings, then I recommend the ABEC 5 440C stainless steel angular contact option:

https://www.enduroforkseals.com/prod...71806-LLB.html

If you have a direct fit bottom bracket and need new seals or retaining rings, we have these bearings available in kits as well:


https://www.enduroforkseals.com/prod...ing_kits/bb30/
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Old 10-28-19, 11:52 AM
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One thing that Hambini says is that most friction from sealed bearings is from the seals. In my experience, comparing the rolling resistance of old Campy Nuovo Record-hubbed wheels (angular contact, no contacting seals) I think that's right. I agree with the Enduro guy that AC bearings are going to last longer than deep-groove ball bearings. Because there is axial force in riding and in preload on bike bearings, and preload on deep-groove ball bearings puts higher stress on bearing races. Deep-groove radial bearings are great for .... radial forces (duh!). AC gives you some support in the axial direction. It is interesting to note that Enduro's warranty claims dropped substantially after moving to AC.

I have a pair of Campy nuovo record wheels (AC, that is, cup and cone) that have lasted 30 years. Anyone get 30 years out of their DGR cartridges?

I'm kind of surprised that AC cartridge bearings haven't taken over more completely. Clearly the asymmetric forces in graunching the crank induces side force, so its easy to see why AC last longer in BBs. But what about wheels?.

Frankly, I think that the wheel and bike mfrs took to cartridge DGRs almost entirely to create a new revenue stream for them and their dealers.
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Old 10-28-19, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Metaluna View Post
He does a lot of bearing- and BB-related videos on YouTube, and sells bearings. Based in the UK I believe. Claims to have mechanical engineering credentials, and seems knowledgeable. To be fair anyone can seem credible to a layman depending on how good of a salesman they are, but I don't pick up any of that from his videos.

I recently ordered some NTN-brand radial bearings from him and he was responsive and the product appears to be genuine. They were a bit pricey, but I got tired of replacing Enduro bearings on my wheels and BB's that seem to go gritty after a year or so, so I figured I'd give a highly-rated Japanese brand a try on one of my hubs. Haven't gotten around to it yet though.
NTN is US company or Japanese ?
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Old 10-28-19, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by brooklyn6640 View Post
NTN is US company or Japanese ?
Japanese
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Old 10-28-19, 12:11 PM
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In addition to Enduro, I sent a note to BBinfinite asking about their stuff because they market themselves as super low drag. I asked spefically about comparisons to NTC and SKF as well as about their seals because, as @WizardOfBoz noted, seals are the main cause of drag. Below is their response:

If you want to ride slowly, get some NTN’s or **** or SKF bearings. These bearings are not made for human performance, they are designed for electric motors.

This strange idea that industrial bearings must be better is silly and misguided. These bearings come overfilled with grease, with inappropriate grease, and use seals that are in aggressive contact with rotating assemblies, hence, the terrible performance for you. What’s good for an electric motor is not good for you. The purpose of you bike is to allow you to be as fast as you can be, yes? Or no?

If no, but some NTN’s.

If yes, but these 6806’s:

https://www.bbinfinite.com/products/...crank-setspair

They have a lifetime bearing exchange warranty because we know they last.
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Old 10-28-19, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DOS View Post
Reletedly, and regarding earlier thread that @brooklyn6640 started about BB30 bearings, I sent an email to enduro with quetions about their bearings and seals. Hambini doesn't like Enduro because they use larger clearance (c3) on their bearings than does NTN (which uses standard CN clearance). Also, in the other thread, @brooklyn6640 had asked about angular contact bearings, which got me wondering about that issue. Below are my questions and Enduro's response:
------------------------------------------------------
My note to Enduro:

I am in the market for replacement bearings for my BB30 bike. I am using SRAM Red cranks.
I am looking for a good balance between performance (low drag) and durability and am a bit overwhelmed by the choices you offer in the 6806 size.
I donít think angular is right for me because crank loads are mainly radial and I am not confident my cranks allow sufficient preload adjustment.
I am drawn to ABEC 5 with the SRS seals because they seem to offer low drag but with adequate protection from the elements. Is that a fair assessment? How do they compare to ABEC 3 with LLB on drag and the degree to which the seals contact the inner race?
Also, which of your 6806 bearings are C3 and which are CN. Which do you recommend for BB30 applications. Seems like ABEC5 are CN, while others are C3. Is that correct?

Enduro response

Your email was forwarded to me and Iíll be glad to help. Not be contrarian, but speaking from experience, angular contact bearings have clearly proven to outlast their radial counterparts in bottom bracket applications. Bearing warranties plummeted after we switched nearly all of our bottom bracket offerings to angular contact bearings. And, importantly, customers have been equally impressed with the performance. The Enduro A/C bearings that we use are more of a hybrid angular/radial bearing with just 15-degree angle. The fact is that almost every bottom bracket, when the free play of the crank is adjusted out, ends up slightly pre-loading the bearings. Your SRAM Red crank is absolutely set up to provide the proper amount of preload for our angular contact offerings.

Almost all bearings we sell (and Enduro produce) are C-3. Some sellers conflate internal bearing clearance ratings such as ďCNĒ with a precision machining rating, or in other words, insinuate that a CN is a higher quality bearing than C-3. Internal clearances and precision tolerances have nothing to do with each other. Simply put, the C-3 and CN ratings are strictly about how much free space is around the ball bearings. Unless a manufacturer has a specific design reason for wanting less clearance around the ball bearings, there is no inherent value in less clearance. In fact, depending upon how tight of press fit a bearing is, having less clearance could lead to binding inside the cartridge and premature failure.

If you have had no corrosion issues with your bottom bracket bearings in the past and are looking for the best performance value with a limited budget, the ABEC 5 angular contact chromium steel bearing option is best:

https://www.enduroforkseals.com/prod.../71806LLB.html

If you have had no corrosion issues in the past and are looking for the least rolling resistance, I recommend the ABEC 5 ďCHĒ series angular contact ceramic hybrid option:

https://www.enduroforkseals.com/prod...H71806LLB.html

If you have had corrosion issues with previous bottom bracket bearings, then I recommend the ABEC 5 440C stainless steel angular contact option:

https://www.enduroforkseals.com/prod...71806-LLB.html

If you have a direct fit bottom bracket and need new seals or retaining rings, we have these bearings available in kits as well:


https://www.enduroforkseals.com/prod...ing_kits/bb30/
Many thank,s for this very interesting investigation with Enduro. I think I will go to angular contact bearig ,now NTN or SKF I'm going to throw a money in the air.
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Old 10-28-19, 01:16 PM
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Jobst Brandt's replacement.
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Old 10-28-19, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz View Post
Frankly, I think that the wheel and bike mfrs took to cartridge DGRs almost entirely to create a new revenue stream for them and their dealers.
Probably because they are cheap and easy to fit, look at how hubs have evolved, up to the boom in CNC manufactures from the late 80's -late 90's, most hubs were cup and cone, then came CNC, and everyone seemed to be making hubs, and most/almost all were cartridge bearing, now most of those manufacturers are long gone/names taken over.

From a consumer POV, cartridge bearing are easy to replace at home (yes you really need a few tools like a bearing press, but this is a one time purchase and if you have a FS MTB, you will probably use this for that as well) need no adjustment and are pretty cheap

For revenue stream, given that most bearing are standard industry size (not just bike industry) and you can go to any bearing shop and get what you need, no manufacturer of hubs get any additional revenue stream unless the purchases insists on buying the bike 'specific' part rather then the exact same non-bike specific part.
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Old 10-28-19, 01:56 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by davidad View Post
Jobst Brandt's replacement.
I was just about to post a similar sentiment! Like Jobst, hambini is a highly-qualified and opinionated engineer, who likes to point out bad ideas and BS in the bicycle industry, but doesn't have the tact (or concern) to avoid making some enemies.
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Old 10-28-19, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DOS View Post
In addition to Enduro, I sent a note to BBinfinite asking about their stuff because they market themselves as super low drag. I asked spefically about comparisons to NTC and SKF as well as about their seals because, as @WizardOfBoz noted, seals are the main cause of drag. Below is their response:

If you want to ride slowly, get some NTNís or **** or SKF bearings. These bearings are not made for human performance, they are designed for electric motors.

This strange idea that industrial bearings must be better is silly and misguided. These bearings come overfilled with grease, with inappropriate grease, and use seals that are in aggressive contact with rotating assemblies, hence, the terrible performance for you. Whatís good for an electric motor is not good for you. The purpose of you bike is to allow you to be as fast as you can be, yes? Or no?

If no, but some NTNís.

If yes, but these 6806ís:

https://www.bbinfinite.com/products/...crank-setspair

They have a lifetime bearing exchange warranty because we know they last.
So in follow up to the response I got from BBInfinite, I expressed surprise at their response, noting that lots of bike industry people recommend NTN and SKF bearings, then I asked again what kid of seals they use to get such low resistance bearings. I got the following response (I seem to be annoying them).

We make our own bearings to our own specs to make the user as fast as possible. We cater to people who understand the nature of the sport, itís purpose, and why we all do it. There are people who want to be perceived as the smartest, and then there are the ones who want to be the fastest. The fastest guy wins a bike race. That is what you need to understand. Or not. Some do. Some never will.
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Old 10-28-19, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I was just about to post a similar sentiment! Like Jobst, hambini is a highly-qualified and opinionated engineer, who likes to point out bad ideas and BS in the bicycle industry, but doesn't have the tact (or concern) to avoid making some enemies.
Hambini is nothing at all like Brandt. Jobst was meticulous about backing up his opinions with detailed analyses which stood up to critical review. He never falsified or made up data. Any engineer who falsifies data is disqualified from ever being considered qualified.
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Old 10-28-19, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DOS View Post
So in follow up to the response I got from BBInfinite, I expressed surprise at their response, noting that lots of bike industry people recommend NTN and SKF bearings, then I asked again what kid of seals they use to get such low resistance bearings. I got the following response (I seem to be annoying them).

We make our own bearings to our own specs to make the user as fast as possible. We cater to people who understand the nature of the sport, itís purpose, and why we all do it. There are people who want to be perceived as the smartest, and then there are the ones who want to be the fastest. The fastest guy wins a bike race. That is what you need to understand. Or not. Some do. Some never will.
It appears their target market is the wattage wienie crowd. Nothing wrong with that if your only concern is getting the most performance for a race or two.Those of us more concerned with durability will look to the industry standard bearers.
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Old 10-28-19, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Hambini is nothing at all like Brandt. Jobst was meticulous about backing up his opinions with detailed analyses which stood up to critical review. He never falsified or made up data. Any engineer who falsifies data is disqualified from ever being considered qualified.
Hambini falsifies data?
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Old 10-28-19, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DOS View Post
Hambini falsifies data?
Follow the links in the Flo statement. https://flocycling.com/blogs/blog/fl...ni-accusations
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Old 10-28-19, 05:38 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Hambini is nothing at all like Brandt. Jobst was meticulous about backing up his opinions with detailed analyses which stood up to critical review. He never falsified or made up data. Any engineer who falsifies data is disqualified from ever being considered qualified.
Uh.... wasnít Jobst Brandt the one who thought spokes act like pillars in compression when under load? And wrote a book saying that? He said that the wheel load was carried by the bottom few spokes. Iím 99.9% sure thatís a load of bull because there exist spokes that are literally string. Considering that wheel science was what he was most known for, I would say no, not everything he did stood up to critical review.

As to what Hambini says, I am a big fan, but I take what he says with a grain of salt. Angular contact bearings may be slower when riding completely upright (as we usually do), but when throwing the bike around or cornering, I have yet to see a proper comparison. Faster also is not inherently the same thing as longer-wearing, just as quieter is not inherently the same thing as faster. Chris King, Shimano, Campy and Wheels mfg all cling to cup and cone bearings. We canít assume theyíre all morons. They just have priorities beyond straight line speed.

As to BBInfiniteís claim of ďindustrial bearings are not inherently betterĒ - thatís true. Of course, itís better to have a bearing that is more suited to your task assuming everything else is equal. But everything else is not equal. The precision to which a bearing is machined can seriously affect the drag and longevity. Hambini has posted a comparison (somewhere). It shows that, under simulated bike conditions (in terms of speed and weight), NTN bearings last the longest. And that is going to matter a lot more to people than a tenth of a watt. The gains one gets from properly aligning the bearings will far exceed any gains from bearing choice within a reasonable range. Itís arguable that Hambini has done the most to bring this issue to the public eye than anyone else. Even BBInfinite.

Hambini says spin-down tests are a poor indicator of drag and I disagree with him. Itís a poor indicator of how drag scales with load, but I think it does a fine job of showing the amount of ďbaseĒ drag caused by seals, grease and misalignment. I have a Hambini racing BB. It doesnít seem to spin quite long as BBinfinite BBs do in videos. I can imagine itís because of the excessive, inappropriate grease. But itís still really, really good, and thereís some of evidence to suggest than NTN bearings stay faster for longer than many bearings.

Since BBInfinite is claiming that their bearings that theyíve made are so much better than those made by multi-billion dollar corporations that specialize in bearings, the onus is on them to compare their steel bearings to NTN/SKF/FA G etc. I know ceramic is faster initially, but I think, for the cost, we would need to see some hard evidence that they last at least as long as steel (because in theory they should not).

Itís interesting to note that Hambini Racing BBs use ďcontactlessĒ seals and BBinfinite bearings use ďmid contactĒ seals, but still seem to have less base drag. Or do they? Who knows. EDIT: Also itís worth noting that most NTN bearings normal people can buy online are P0 or P6 whereas BBInfinite claims to be Abec-7 aka P4. So BBInfinite may actually be better than NTN.

Last edited by smashndash; 10-28-19 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 10-28-19, 05:46 PM
  #24  
asgelle
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Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
Uh.... wasn’t Jobst Brandt the one who thought spokes act like pillars in compression when under load?
No.
Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
And wrote a book saying that? He said that the wheel load was carried by the bottom few spokes. I’m 99.9% sure that’s a load of bull because there exist spokes that are literally string. Considering that wheel science was what he was most known for, I would say no, not everything he did stood up to critical review.
I don't know if you never read the book, or just didn't understand it, but your characterization is incorrect. Brandt explained that starting with an evenly tensioned, true wheel without any load, when loaded, the deformation occurs across the bottom of the wheel reducing the tension on the lower spokes in the deformation zone leaving the remainder of the spokes virtually unaffected. Given that, it would not be incorrect to say that the lower spokes carry the load. In any event, right or wrong (though he certainly is right), he detailed his reasoning clearly and completely so it could be understood and challenged. If you want to relive the 90's you can search for the endless threads where this was debated. Having lived through it the first time, I see no need to go through it again.
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Old 10-28-19, 05:59 PM
  #25  
smashndash
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
No.

I don't know if you never read the book, or just didn't understand it, but your characterization is incorrect. Brandt explained that starting with an evenly tensioned, true wheel without any load, when loaded, the deformation occurs across the bottom of the wheel reducing the tension on the lower spokes in the deformation zone leaving the remainder of the spokes virtually unaffected. Given that, it would not be incorrect to say that the lower spokes carry the load. In any event, right or wrong (though he certainly is right), he detailed his reasoning clearly and completely so it could be understood and challenged. If you want to relive the 90's you can search for the endless threads where this was debated. Having lived through it the first time, I see no need to go through it again.
I have not read the book. Only seen some snippets/debates online.
Donít mean to turn this into a debate but:
ďOther than its tension the bicycle wheel is the same as any other wheel such as a wooden wagon wheel. The spoke under the hub is shortened in compression by a load on the axle, while the upper spokes remain unaffected by the load.Ē

Maybe Iím just dumb but I donít see a lack of tension as the same thing as compression. We donít have to discuss this any further, but I think this could be fairly easily resolved if someone heavily loaded a wheel and then cut the spoke at the bottom, and nothing happened. If that spoke were truly a load bearing structure, then something would happen. Regardless, youíre right that this has been debated endlessly and thereís no resolving it.
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