jadocs

Complete opposite from my experience. I notice a marked improvement in ride comfort between tubeless and tubes. I think in instances where people do not notice much of a difference is due to running tubeless at a higher pressure than they should. I used to be one of them.

WizardOfBoz

I agree, if we're talking about using a tube connected to the stem. But with a syringe and a skinny tube that goes inside the stem, it seems to me that you have the best of all worlds.
1) In sucking the sealant out with the tube, you can draw from near the bottom of the bottle - even if the stuff is settling, you get a representative sample.
2) In pushing the sealant into the tire, the syringe is pointed down and the glitter goes out first.
3) The tube goes through the stem. If you wipe off the tube after drawing sealant, no sealant ever touches the stem.
4) You can pre-seat the tire dry and don't have to break the seal to put in sealant. There's no chance of blowing out any sealant when you're trying to reseat the tire.

Of course, everyone gets to use their preferred method. I had a hard time putting sealant in directly, and find using the syringe a lot easier and cleaner.

Phil_gretz

Can I get an "Amen!"?

Leisesturm

Amen brother! I'm not doing tubular, but neither am I ever going to do tubeless. Tubeless could only seem like a good idea to cyclists still wedded to automotive concepts. How well did bias ply tire construction work in bicycle tires? Friends, we ride bicycles! If you want to play with tires work for Les Schwab. I don't do anything with my tires other than put air in them every six months or so. The rest of the time I am riding.

DrIsotope

And tubed devotees are people still living in the 1950s. My furniture dolly had tubes, but kept getting flats, so it has solid tires now. I don't want solid tires on my bikes, so tubeless it is.

masi61

I played around with my used Dura Ace 7850 tubeless wheels that I got cheap all winter. I got the rear Hutchinson Fusion 5 All Season to mount up and then seal with minimal drama, but the Hutchinson Atom front tire never sealed for me at all. I created a small cut in the square bead due to damaging the bead with a plastic tire lever but I’m not sure if this is the primary source of the bead leak since when I plunged the inflated tire into a large tub of water, one whole side of the wheel (pretty much one entire bead) had massive amounts of micro bubbles oozing out quickly to where a tire inflated to 110 psi was down below 35 psi in less than 30 minutes.

This frustrating experience soured me on pushing tubeless into the regular rotation for me. My 2 main road bikes that I alternate on any given day have 700x23 or 700x25 clinchers or “open tubulars” with Vittoria latex tubes. My latex tube experience has been quite positive as I feel that they do enhance the “suppleness” of the ride. I weigh 195 and lately my aluminum framed Flyte feels harsh with my 700x25 Challenge Criterium open tubulars inflated at 95 front and 104 rear. They act like they would track my local chip seal roads so much better if I ran more like 80 psi front and say, 91 psi rear.

But back to the Dura Ace 7850’s. It is a dog gone shame that I have yet to run these in the real world. When I spin the front wheel now (the one with the massive slow leak) I hear the sloshing sound of thin water only. I guess it is time to dismount the Hutchinson Atom yet again, inspect and start over again with a different tubeless tire. The other option since I hate to waste a good tire is that I would rinse out the Stan’s sealant, let it dry thoroughly and then mount a Vittoria latex tube and run the tire that way just so I can recoup the $50 spent on the tire. Then, when the tire is fully worn, I would set out to go with more of a well known tubeless road tires with a better reputation of sealing properly.

Phil_gretz

I can see tubeless for mountain bikers. My closest friend is an aggressive XC rider, and he loves his tubeless setups. I can't be bothered, but I'm not that great of a rider, so a few ounces or an occasional flat don't mean anything to me.

For road riding? I can't see it.

Tubulars? Yes. Tubeless? Not really.

Leisesturm

I would understand your scorn a little better if this wasn't a thread by someone having ... someone clearly having a less than optimal experience with modern tire technology. And s/he is not alone. Elsewhere on BF are similar tales of woe. There isn't anything tubeless tires do that Bontrager Hardcase Series tires don't do as well. And the Bonties will do it cheaper, with much less fuss and with far greater reliability. If the 1950's brought us this then I'm fine with staying there.

DrIsotope

If the choice is between a rock hard tire (which I suffered with for 6,000 miles) and "dealing with the hassle" of tubeless, I choose the latter. I've said this dozens of times before, but a lot of people on this site seem to have comprehension issues, so here it is again:

Flats are a real thing here. The roads are bad, and almost always littered with debris. There are three choices:

1. suffer with armored tires, which are hard and slow
2. run whatever tires you like, and become very adept at changing and patching tubes
3. run tubeless tires in the hopes of eliminating at least most of the flats.

This is not about living by feeling. I don't feel that I need tubeless. I don't necessarily even want it. The tires are expensive and the selection is still limited-- I'd love to be able to buy paper-thin sidewalled Paselas for $20 and just ride around. But I cannot. What I know is that I need it, as I am unwilling to fix a flat every couple of days, or ride around on Hardshells anymore. Riding a bike is supposed to be fun. And while dealing with anything tire-related isn't exactly the pinnacle of excitement, I would rather mess with it in the comfort of my shop with the bike in the stand, than on the side of the road somewhere. I have about 5,200 miles so far this year. I have recorded a single flat, which was a horrible sidewall cut that destroyed the tire. Were I on tubed tires, I can guarantee you I would have flats into the double digits. I similarly lost 2 tires in 2018 to cuts, in just under 11,000 miles. But I never once had to stop to pull a thorn or a piece of wire out of a tire. I never even know those are there.

End of the day, I guess I don't care how much it costs. It doesn't stop me from buying a $60 tire, so it must not be a dealbreaker. I'm paying that money for a more comfortable ride, and to eliminate nuisance flats. The tires aren't perfect. But a tubed tire is simply not a viable alternative for the roads on which I ride, nor for the mileage I record on those roads. I speak from experience-- more than 30,000 miles of it in the past 4 years. Everyone else is free to operate under what they think, and I will continue to stick to what I know.

Leisesturm

Not all armored tires are hard and slow. If there is a sweeter glide from a 700c/25mm clincher than the one I get from the OEM Bonties on my Trek 1.1 I don't need to know about it.

DrIsotope

I wouldn't exactly call a T1 armored, but definitely heavy and slow. Hey, if you're satisfied with nylon cased, wire bead, 30tpi tires-- good on ya. I'd be getting flats hourly. The T1 is like a stiffer Pasela. Non-ProTite Paselas are thorn magnets around here.

boozergut

One item that I don't see included in this thread is the current quality of tubes. My LBS tells me that we are down to 4 companies world wide that make tubes. My riding partner and I have had terrible issues this year with tubes splitting where the valve area ties into the main tube. I'm extra cautious now when topping up the air in my wheels before a ride. My thick gravel tires don't help me in the event of a tube structural failure.

WizardOfBoz

Horses for courses. I used to live in So Cal (Irvine) back when there was a lot of open space and you could ride for miles on the canal bank crests. I didn't have thorn problems. But Dr. Isotope clearly is a savvy guy (hey! he's a Doctor!) and he's found the right balance for his So Cal Locale.

On the road near my house, I've gotten 2 leaks in 3 years. Same tire, probalby the same patch of broken glass or whatever. Even for that one time, my experience in gettting the d**m bontranger R3s back on to a Bontrager rim was so humiliating that I'm swearing off the things, I think.

My first experience in putting new tires on (R3s on Race Lites) was similarly humiliating. I couldn't even get the beads to seat.

I did do a ride the other day for which I lowered my front tire pressure to 95psi, and the ride was much better. So we'll see how the rear patches hold up with sealant.

I got a rather weird email response from Jenson. You fill out a form. They send you a message (from something called Gear Advisor) that says "The problem is solved!" without actually checking with you. Then they say "If you require further assistance please give our Gear Advisors a call at ..."

ronin4740

Thought I'd share that while getting ready to go on a ride the other night my rear tire decided leak from a pin hole sized puncture after I pumped it up to riding pressure and was adding air to the front tire with the bike still on the bike rack.

As my starting point was somewhere other than home changing the tube would have been a bit more complicated. I had the floor pump with me but still it's easier to this with a bike stand.

As it was, once I verified where the leak was and that it wasn't a gaping hole I took the bike off the bike rack, spun the rear wheel and let the sealant do it's thing. After adding in a bit more air and verifying that the tire had stopped hissing at me I headed out on the ride!

WizardOfBoz

Jenson's did get back to me and offered me a refund. I've written to Hutchinson to get their side of the story. Will report back.

I started another thread about the Hutchinson kit, and so will report results there.

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...dn-t-work.html

dmanthree

This thread reinforces my opinion of road tubeless tires: a solution in search of a problem. I run tubes because of a bad experience with tubeless. First two tires this season were just too delicate and both didn't last through the first 400 miles. Blowout on one, and many cuts on the other. I replaced them with a stronger, but still good rolling tire and after several hundred miles---nothing. No flats, no cuts in the tread or sidewall, no drama.

I tried tubeless with a pair of Schwalbe Pro One tires, mounted by the LBS. On the third ride I hit a pothole and the rear tire popped its bead. So I had to install a tube. Later, when I wanted to remount the tire as tubeless, the tube, thanks to the sealant, was permanently glued to the tire. It was a throwaway. I installed the spare, and four days later suffered a cut in the front tire that required a phone call. I gave up. Cleaned the rims, installed a couple of tubed tires and never looked back. Tubed tires are just too damned easy. Why change?

bgdoyle

Well I have 250 miles on the Schwalbe Pro Ones and seem to work great. Good ride, running at 75psi. I am loosing 3-5 psi over night, so I have gotten used to bumping up the pressure each ride. Kind of a bother, but the improvement in ride makes up for it.

DOS

I have been running Schwalbe ones for 2 and half years and many thousands of miles. Ride is great at 85psi (I am 215 and run 110psi on clinchers). . I had my firs flat a month ago when a rock slashed a giant hole in a tire that was pretty much at end of useful life. It would have destroyed a tubed tire as well. Putting a tube and boot in to get home was a bit messier than changing a tube on a regular clincher, but not any harder. And getting the tube out afterward was not a problem. I find I lose only about five lbs over a week — similar to tires with tubes - so not sure what explains your larger air loss.

Leebo

If you take out the core to add sealant, not going to get clogged. No mt bike flats in 4 years, seems to be working well for me.

DOS

Yes. It also helps to have the core rotated above the six o'clock position when adding sealant, at about 4 or 8 o’clock, so the sealant flows down into the tire away from the valve and isn’t pooling right below the valve. Once the sealant is added, core replaced, and tire is inflated, spin the wheel to distribute the sealant and gummed up cores should not be an issue.

DrIsotope

If you note sealant buildup around the bottoms of your presta cores, it means they're leaking. I buy them by the 10-bag, because that little rubber seal at the bottom of the core is most certainly a wear item. Being aired up every 1-2 days, I seem to have cores last maybe 7-8 months. Then they start to gum up because they're not sealing well enough, so the sealant does exactly what it is expected to do.

jimincalif

Hey @DrIsotope, I never thought of this. I'm only about 17 months into using tubeless tires and haven't had this problem yet. Are presta cores interchangeable, or specific to the brand of valve installed on the wheel? Sounds like I need to have a few in the parts bin.

DrIsotope

A core is a core, and I buy whatever's cheapest. Last 10-bag was about $8. I get several years out of a bag.

ronin4740

My tune on tubeless might be changing... Prior to my ride last night I noticed that the rear tire, a Giant Gavia SL 700X25C tubeless tire, had developed a pimple... My first thought was that a pimple on a tire was a little odd and I wondered what might have caused it so I picked at it a bit. Clearly this was the right thing to do as within a few seconds it split open, spewing Stan's Tire Sealant all over the place...

Seriously I have no idea what caused the inner casing to split under the rubber on a tire with around 500 miles on it. Guessing that the SL's really aren't meant to go lots of miles or for general purpose training.

So, a trip to the only LBS which is open after 6pm (happens to be the Giant dealer) resulted in a set of Gavia 700x28C AC1's being installed. Hopefully they'll get me through the season as I'm at about $200 for bike tires thus far this year.

If these also die prior to the end of the season I think I'm gonna go back to tubes and Gatorskins

Teamprovicycle

over time the sealant can clog up its happened once and i had to dismount the tire and rip it out , if you run particles in your sealant its best to just pour it in rotate the bead and then pop the bead on , its literally just as easy , if not easier because no splashing no squirting back at you if you dont line up the tube with eh valve hole .