69chevy

Winning an ironman while averaging over 25mph on the bike leg. I know, he's not a "cyclist

OBoile

Completely irrelevant.

Just admit it, you had no idea what you were talking about and were wrong.

Blackdays

Winning an Ironman is impressive, and something most of us can't get close to - that's not what he's getting at.

You'll learn this first hand next season, but a race ebbs and flows. The average effort isn't what kills you, it's the attacks.

As you move up the cats, the severity and the frequency of the attacks grows.

OBoile

"Best athlete" is entirely subjective. There aren't any NBA/NFL guys that could make it as cycling pros.

69chevy

You're right. Training doesn't make a cyclist elite. They are all the best athletes alive who dropped all normal sports to chase the glory of a 30k per year salary.

growlerdinky

The question isn't whether or not he is a strong cyclist with the physicL, mental, and psychological toughness to withstand the rigors of competition, even at the lowest levels.

Edit: hint, hint

Blackdays

Yup - exactly my point. The best endurance athletes in the world who had an inclination towards cycling are on bikes.

chasm54

You are completely without a clue. Everyone in this thread with any experience is telling you that however much they trained, and despite being what most people would regard as very fast, they would never have a chance of reaching pro level. The gap between people of equal talent is indeed, training. The gap between the top performers and the rest is talent. Train full-time for the rest of your life and I guarantee you won't come close to the power/weght ratio of the most junior pro on the Movistar team.

Blackdays

Let's pick this back up once he finishes his first season as a 5 and has seen a guy that lined up with him on day 1 end the season as a 2.

Btw, same join month!

redfooj

So apprently he's slow, and shorter than you are, but earns a few million a year for playing in 80 games at basketball. supposedly the only difference then is training...makes you regret your life decisions then?



Forget that he's a McDonald's all American breaking multiple records at the most storied college baskeball program in all times.

You really underestimate the huge gulf at each tier of competition. At my alma mater I played rec bball with a few guys who were varsity starters in high school. Occasionally a few guys from the team would swing by the gym and join the pick up game. These were kids cherry picked from prep academies across the country - California, Maryland, Florida, whatever - and offered a scholarship to play D1A top25 ranked program.

They trounced us like toddlers. And they weren't even trying.

Their mission in life is to make it to the big leagues. (C average in kinesiology isn't exactly credentials for a successful career). None of these guys - atleast the ones I ran into - ever sniffed a spot of the 450 deep roster of the NBA.

It ain't the training. Jesus.

puddinlegs

So you really don't understand this yet? The better example is to take the number of Div 1 college ball players that make it to the NBA or NFL... we're not even talking about all the JH and HS kids trying to be good enough to even play at the college level. In the TdF peloton, there are only a handful or two at the most who have any chance to win the GC, but without the role players, even Froome has little or no chance. On the other hand, the TdF GC winner these days probably doesn't have much of a shot in the one day classics. I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for Froome to win Paris Roubaix. Within world tour cycling, there are specialties. Not everyone is on the headline of the movie marquee, but it still takes hundreds to make the film and thousands never even see their names anywhere in the credits who'd love to be part of the show.

redfooj

Regretfully I'm all out of effort continuing in this discussion. should've trained harder at pecking on a smartphone.

puddinlegs

You don't seem to know what the world tour pros are paid. Sure, it's not NBA or NFL, but 6 and 7 digits isn't uncommon. Lance made a mint. Now he's getting sued and will lose most of it.

chasm54

Wiggo made about £4m ($6m) the year he won the Tour. Typcal domestique in a world tour team might earn between $200and $500k per year, or so I've read. There are several articles available on lne

HOWSER

With the key word "typical", I bet it's half that. This is excluding the top tier pros.

YogaKat

I was recently told that "it isn't the bike itself, but the engine that powers the bike."

I'm still a newbie, but I do get my cruiser up to 22 mph on occasion. Of course, I don't ever see trying to go pro but I sure have a lot of fun pushing my purple Cranbrook as fast as I can.

RR3

I don't know much but I would wager that fat, old Greg Legmond could get off the couch and he would drop all of you

chasm54

I edited to update to a higher figure, my info was out of date. Salaries on the world tour teams have risen in the last couple of years, apparently. But I'm talking about the absolute top tier teams, yes. The pay declines very fast below that.

https://www.skysports.com/cycling/new...e-peloton-earn

OBoile

LOL. dook isn't even the most storied program in North Carolina.

Otherwise, I agree with everything you've said here. At this point I think 69chevy must be trolling.

Voodoo76

I get what you are thinking and would bet that on a wide straight road w/o hills or wind I could sit in for an hour or two even now.

But that's not how it really works. A bigger field can sometimes be tougher than a small one. Nothing is more discouraging than coming almost to a stop entering a turn while seeing the lead of the race 100 riders or so up flying out of it. Knowing you have to accelerate from 10 to 35 just to cover the gap in front of you, much less move up. Rinse and repeat this a few dozen times for various reasons and you will be truly hurting.

The ability to take that constant surging/recovery is part of the talent gap both physically and mentally.

milkbaby

Sometimes all the education in the world is not enough; you need to be born with the brains...

calimtb

With sufficient training, they'd do a lot better in a crit, stage race or triathlon than a pro cyclist would at pro basketball or football.

Give Lebron James enough hours of training and he could generate enormous power and speed on a bicycle.

Put Lance Armstrong in an NBA uniform and he would never ever score in an NBA game.

Take a look at the Jon Jones video I posted. 6'4" and considered P4P the best MMA fighter in the world. He tried dunking a basketball and wound up hitting the bottom of the rim with the ball, it caromed back hit him in the head, and he nearly fell on his ass.

Put an NBA athlete on a bike first time and they will generate enormous power and speed. There are many nba players who are around 63" (miguel indurain height) and I am quite certain they could go very fast on a bicycle.

Pro cyclists have a very specific, niche skill which doesn't translate into other forms of athletic competition. However, NBA and NFL players have a very broad athletic skill set that transfers to a wide variety of athletic activities and sports.

Pro football, basketball and baseball players are capable of hitting high speeds on a bicycle. Eddy Merckx can't do a 360 degree dunk or jump over a 7 foot player to dunk.

There's a reason why a domestique may make $200K per year whereas a scrub reserve like Tristan Thompson can command over $18 million a year. Lebron James and Durant will likely make $30+ million a year. Audiences and sponsors pay a premium to watch the very best athletes. And pro cyclists don't fit that bill.

chasm54

No doubt they could - for a few minutes at a time.

You appear to have absolutely no idea of what bike racing is like.

No they aren't. Not in the context of what is required to win a bike race. They are far, far too heavy.

it's hard to credit that you actually believe this rubbish. The difference in remuneration has nothing to do with who is the "best athlete". It has to do with the revenue generated by the sport. A basketball player is a better athlete than a cyclist on the basketball court. A pro cyclist will beat the crap out of him on a bike. Michael Phelps would make both of them look foolish in the water. What is "best" is dictated by the demands of the sport.

Blackdays

It's all about enormous power and speed bro.

Forget duration, that's for chumps.

OBoile

This is an entirely subjective statement. You've arbitrarily decided what constitutes a large gap in ability for each sport in order make your argument.
Furthermore your belief that salary is entirely related to athleticism is misplaced. Basketball is a much more spectator friendly sport than cycling is. You can't sell tickets to the Tour de France and the people that go get to watch only a few seconds of action rather than the entire game.