TheManShow

When I was in business, many clients became good friends. But I never let that friendship & business become the same.

Many of the reporters, writters, photo editors, bureau chiefs, etc. that I worked with & for over 25 still keep intouch today. We talk about how the business has changed, some of our old adventures in the day when getting the story was the object, reasonable expense, good drinks, and nice expense account were the norm.

Most are retired now living life well as the smart one put some of the big money away for retirement. Ioe of the guy lived in France in a big home until he died a few year backs never made it over to see him, but I had an open invitation.

One of my rule of life is never do business, with friend or family. If you do & sometihing goes wrong you will hear those words.

But were are friends, or that is not the way to deal with family, just forget your uncle S*****D you.

bbbean 

You're absolutely right.,if only I had a nickel for every time I was able to get a big online store to do a quick repair, bring a part to a race, or organize a weekly ride to help me get ready for a big race...

FRANK CANNON

Man, if it's not a deal too good to pass up buy local. You don't know what you have until it's gone.

TheManShow

So if I read your post correctly you support, and get all sorts of support back. Math makes dollar & cent to me for you.

Noddy

With most manufactured goods the small retailer doesn't get to purchase them from the factory he has to go through a distributor. The mass merchandisers and web merchants are buying at the same level the distributors are because of the volume they do. How do you suppose the LBS can compete with that when they are starting off with perhaps a 20-40% handicap?

Noddy

That isn't "their" site. It's a service provided to them by one of the big distributors. I'll bet if you check out a few other LBS sites you'll find an identical catalog differing only in branding and maybe color.

wphamilton

I can't think of a single compelling reason why it's important to personally support a local shop, unless they provide better quality, better service, better availability or better prices.

bruised

I'm happy enough to pay a premium by purchasing from a LBS, but if they want to keep my business they need to earn it by providing good after-sales service and support. The problem is, not all of them know how to do that (or just don't care to do it).

I've had two rotten experiences with two different bike shops in my area, and quite frankly, they don't deserve my hard-earned cash. There's little that pisses me off more than some sales guy (or LBS owner), who is all smiles and buddy-buddy pre sales, then when you drop the money on a new bike they drop you like a sack of rocks. So this whole 'support your LBS' movement is a joke as far as I'm concerned. I'll support any business who provides a good product and backs it up with good after-sales service and support. Those who are too busy looking after their race team to support a customer who dropped $2k on a new bike can go take a hike.

simplybao

I support a local shop if they take care of me and not make me feel like they are doing me a favor. Most of the ones around here are great and there is one that I'm not a HUGE fan of because it feels like going to a big box store. One of them will price match competitive cyclist and even though that site isn't always the cheapest, at least it's something. And they I just had them do some work on my bike converting it from a flat bar to drops and I think the labor rate was a steal. Plus, if I ever have issues with a part, I can come in there and they will take care of me.

I also like to support a local LBS because it's jobs for a local cyclist and it helps the local economy supporting a hobby that enjoy. The argument above about those other businesses is crazy to me. Why would you support something you're not into? Anyway, I will support local if they support me. Price isn't everything to me.

TheManShow

You mentioned the "too busy looking after race team", and without your patronage aka spending money in their shop. How would they generate the profit to support that race team. But some owner are not that smart, and forget if they treat your right, you will tell people, and the equation works the other way.

Also with sites like this u-tube instructional videos, sites like Sheldon Brown, and Park Tools instructional material that is all free with internet acess. Many people who use to throw money that the LBS for minor adjustment are now DYI-ing it.

knobster

I don't set foot in shops here. Mainly because I'd rather order from the convenience of my own home and since I own all the tools to work on my bikes, I don't have a need to take to be worked on. I doubt I'd even go to a LBS if the prices were cheaper. Easy of ordering is worth more to me than cheaper prices.

Dave Cutter

My uncle had a similar (but different) problem back in the 1940's when he was selling his produce. He had to settle for whatever price the distributors were willing to pay. So he along with five other farmers formed a CO-OP. They bought all the local produce at fair prices... and when they resold it (with a tiny mark-up) to the distributors... but the CO-OP controlled the price.

Bicycle shops could benefit greatly by using a shared resource's CO-OP model. Particularly a shared on-line store option. So stores could mutually benefit both from the mass sales to buy their own parts cheaper. AND as a way to sell parts on-line (via a on-line store/page/membership).

I buy some parts directly from China. Or from on-line stores like Nashbar. My favorite on-line store is Performance. I can pick-up at the store or return to the store if I don't like what I bought. LBS's could setup their own on-line stores without ever owning the merchandise, servers, warehouses.... whatever.

But then again... MAYBE... the problems faced by todays small businesses (like the LBS's) are insurmountable! Maybe government over-regulation, Internet competition, and a fickle cycling public are just too much. Maybe every LBS in America will go under. I am pretty sure what is being tried now is no longer working like it once did. Only time will tell.

raceboy

I like to spin wrenches but I am, at best, an advanced beginner at bicycle mechanics. Because I cruise into my LBS every couple of weeks and say hey, buy something, ask them how their day is going, we have a little bit of a relationship. This comes in handy when I screw up or get stuck on a bike repair. I toss my bike on the car rack and take it in to the shop so the pros can take over. They let me watch and charge a nominal fee. Sometimes--and always if I bought the part from them--they'll fix my mistake and not charge me a thing. That keeps me coming back. One mechanic's joke is "I don't charge you for the small stuff so I can make it back on the big stuff." One time when my rear wheel was breaking spokes, they directed me to the local Giant dealer because they might replace the wheel for free. (The bike was a Giant and that isn't one of their brands, of course.)

They've earned my loyalty and will have the first shot at selling me a new bike or other high ticket item or repair when the time comes. In the meantime, I buy tubes, chainlube, and most other consumables there. When they don't have what I am looking for or a price is crazy high, that's when I look and buy online. LBS always gets first shot, though.

TheManShow

Dairy Farmers in Northern California do the Co-oP thing, and they even buy the feed in larger lots to get price breaks. Know this a a friend son drove a milk tanker for a Co-oP it was better than OTR, better pay, better equipment, sleeping own bed most night and work for someone that appreciated the guy.

Dave Cutter

Yeah I stopped in the Trek store this spring and bought some new Bontrager tires to replace the ones I wore-out. I shop more in the winter months when It's too cold to ride much. I wish they sold coffee in the winter! A bicycle shop would be a GREAT warm-up stop if I could get a mug of coffee. I think Performance bike shops have spin classes in winter months now. I guess people bring in their own trainers and bicycles. Some other shops start rides from their parking lots.

I wonder what other activities and/or products a LBS could sell.

Maybe... if bicycle shops would invest more time and resources into selling cycling... instead of just bicycles and parts. Then they might find great opportunities to earn money from non-material services. Just a thought. I don't really know. But I would bet someone smarter than myself can figure it out.

GovernorSilver

I've bought some cycling stuff online, but my next bike will be purchased at an LBS. Why? Because I can try bikes at a good LBS.

I'm not a bike mechanic so I can't get away with ordering parts and putting my own bike together. Even I bolted a bunch of components together, something is sure to be "off" and I'd end up taking the bike to an LBS anyway to be fixed.

avidone1

I think it's up to the manufacturers to decide where their bread is buttered, so to speak.
I recently bought a samsung TV. Samsung, Sony and I suppose some other of the major electronics companies call the shots on pricing .
If you want to sell their products you follow their price guidelines. Period.
I was therefore able to buy my TV at the same price as online or "big box" retailers and enjoy all the benefits of
shopping in a customer friendly atmosphere, nearby location, local business support, and personal interaction.
I love it. I know the bike business is only a fraction of the electronics biz, but still...They call the shots.

Dave Cutter

Not necessarily an awful idea. But in America that is called "price fixing" and is against the law. Anyone can sell their wares at whatever price they desire. But conspiring to control and fix prices to the consumer is not allowed.

If you manufacture a product you set your selling price... period. Like any other price... someone will try to low-ball you. Some large volume vender... might offer or request "volume deals". Then they are free to resell at discount... if they wish. Or... if you don't comply with the discounted deal they want... they may chose to not buy your product for resale. It's all part of the "free enterprise" stuff. If a vender desires to sell at discount, even at a loss... it is not the business of the manufacture.

I know some argue that capitalism and free markets cause unfair advantages or hardships on various business. But the very nature of business is dynamic and that cannot be changed. And the failure of markets and business to grow and change with the times will always be detrimental.

NO ONE... wants to live where some monarch king/dictator decides what products will be manufactured, bought, sold, and used. Bicycles are an OLD product and sales fluctuate with trends. There is no realistic way (short of forcing the population to bicycle) to alter the bicycle marketplace.

We need creative marketers to find the profit in cycling. There is NO other way.

flyjimmy

Its not price fixing to dictate the price you want retailers to sell your product at.

BiciMan

I like knowing a store's mechanic(s) and (other) managers for whenever I need something special -a part or work, or just expert consultation. The only shop I had purchased a bike from, in my town, closed last year. My last two purchases were from a shop in a town about 15 miles away. Each time, the shop had the bike I wanted, at 25% off: That is the main reason I purchased there, despite the real distance inconvenience. I returned for the second purchase because the guys at the shop were very knowledgeable, friendly, and they didn't nickel-and-dime me for this-and-that's on the first bike. The last time I was there was to have recall work completed on a two-year-old bike. I took new tires I wanted put on the bike as well and I wasn't purchasing anything nor having any other work done -and, the tires had just been purchased on line. They gladly installed the tires while I was there for the recall work (new suspension fork), and when I asked how much for the tire installations, they said "no charge". Work well done, generously, and I'll keep going back -even if I still get most things elsewhere. I do check for their prices if they stock what I need, and they often match or give me a discounted, close-enough price. I enjoy the relationship, appreciate the work, and hope they can stay in business.


Qualifications: 1) Most bike shops have TRULY BAD web sites that don't encourage business. 2) Worse: Too many bike shops are too-governed or controlled by manufacturers, so that the "local" is quite soft; and, their ability to stay in business, and/or how they do business, is often determined by manufacturers' practices. Shops I use are better on or manage these things better than others.

TheManShow

Pardon me buy againest the law don't mean zero until you find some to put tell behind the law, and enforce it. When woring in Sacramento I use to ocassianaly get stuck going to some press conference because some lateest feel good law pass, the legislatures were so happy. The world was saved.

I remember when California passed their Assault Weapon legislature after the famous Cleveland Elementry (Stockton) School Shooting. Law did not do much good, killing continued with assult weapons.

I am not being cynical, critical, or negative. I am calling what happen after the passing of the law what I see as truth. Not much changed if anything. Except honest citizens obaying another law, and they were not the ones killing people with assault weapons in the first place.

Bandera

Did you notice the Red Underlining on lots of words when you were typing a message in the forum?
It's an automated Spell Check: by right clicking on the word underlined in red a helpful set of suggestions to correct your misspelling will pop right up.
Select the appropriate one and voila' it is correctly spelled.
Good technology for clear concise accurate communication.

-Bandera

Dave Cutter

So you think some manufactures are price fixing? And... I guess retailers are just keeping quite about it? Are you sure they aren't racketeering as well then too? Do you have any examples of businesses involved in these illegal schemes?

bmthom.gis

1) I generally like my LBS. Not as much as I did the one that went out of business (unrelated to their sales, service, etc)
2) The people who work there are my friends
3) The host group rides
4) I get a discount
5) I'll support something local over a big box store any day
6) It is not just a place to buy stuff, it is a place I want to go and hang out. They have a beer fridge and a turn table
7) Apart from serious group rides, they do a vintage bike pub crawl once a month.
8) The people I see shopping there are typically people I end up riding with. I like riding buddies
9) The more people that can get into a bike shop and buying bikes = more people on the roads on bikes
10) Bicycle advocacy starts at bike shops, usually.

TheManShow

You mised my point about laws, they are just paper unless some enforcing body chooses to enfore them. Then the accused has their day in court.

Apple computer products is a good example. Want a deal on one? About the only way is educators price, buy it at PX, VA where you do not pay tax. Other wise price appear fixed.