taras0000

Have you ordered the frame yet? Are you dead set on buying the FUJI?

I only ask because there are a few options now at the larger end of the frame scale. BT makes a bike with a 61cm TT, Avanti makes one with a 63cm TT, and Dixie Flyer makes one with a 62cm TT.

If you have a shorter torso, the BT Stealth uses a regular round post. If you can find one in a 59cm size (the largest they made for that model), you can use any long 27.2mm seatpost.

There is also a VERY large "custom" BT that is for sale right now that I know of. I don't know the seller but I can inbox you the link if you like.

brawlo

Seconded! I'm 6'5" but long arms and I had to go custom as nothing on the ready made market was big enough. The Dixie was close but I could get almost what I wanted in custom (almost because the maker's frame jig wasn't big enough so we had to juggle some geometry around)

Whether it will fit or not will of course depend on your upper body dimensions. Good luck!

carleton

Being that you are larger than most humans, you might find a hard time finding a frame that fits you well, as opposed to simply fitting OK.

You will undoubtedly be faster on a custom aluminum (or even steel) bike that fits you well. Fit trumps materials every time.

Put another way:

- No one went from a steel or aluminum frame to carbon and got significantly faster (if at all). The gains from carbon are mainly due to the fact that you can form it into aero shapes. But the frame only affects less than, what, 5% of the aerodynamic system?

- People will instantly become faster when they go from ill-fitting bikes to properly fitting bikes. An ill-fitting bike hinders ones biomechanics.



I'm not saying that you should go custom. If I were you, I'd strongly consider it. I know it's easy to think that a steel or aluminum frame instantly puts you at a disadvantage. But, it does not. There are other parts of the aerodynamic system that are much, much more significant.

brawlo

Adding to what @carleton says on aero, with the practice of hydroforming tube profiles becoming more and more common by builders, the aero divide between carbon and metal becomes very very small.

L.Shaner

Hey, Taras0000, thanks so much for the info. Nobody stocks these large frames and at the higher end they are frameset-only transactions and few bike-shops will build it and not charge a hefty restocking fee if the fit isn’t right. As a result, I ended up ordering a stock Fuji Track Pro bike to test the fit, which I did via a dealer who has a no questions asked refund policy. The seatpost wasn’t high enough and no other alternative seatpost were available.
But at least the “experiment” was worthwhile in that I now know that the Fuji Track Elite with same published geometry should fit the same, and so it is a question of what seatpost length is in the stock 61cm frame?

So you see I am already “invested” in this Fuji exploration. I don’t have the time nor resources to invest similarly in a half dozen or more potential alternatives. I liked the fit of the Fuji Track Pro enough except for the short seatpost, that I feel comfortable in investing in the Fuji Track Elite, provided I can sort this seatpost issue.

I have learned elsewhere that Fuji uses the same design for the seatpost in one of their TT bikes and I saw a review where the author went into an awesome level of detail pointing out that the seatpost is 400mm long! If only I can get that seatpost as a stand-alone component, then surely my Fuji Track Elite bike purchase is in the bag. But I don’t want to fish around for the longer seatpost unless someone can confirm that the stock seatpost on the Fuji Track Elite is only 300mm as was the case with the Fuji Track Pro that I tried out. :-/

So that’s the background on why I still need to know the answer to my original question. And isn’t it a bit frustrating that manufacturers don’t bother to post such all-important info like maximum and minimum seatpost heights from center of BB to the rails? But I digress... ;-)

Thanks again for your input. =D

brawlo

When I was fishing around for a TT bike as a trainer bike I came across quite a few carbon frames that were a good fit and cheap, but just had too short of a seatpost

L.Shaner

A newbie follow-up question. You are quoting all sizes as TT, which is great because reach is also a concern (I have been relegated to too small rental bikes in the past where my knees hit the handlebars on out-of-the-saddle climbs and sprints)...
So is TT or effective-TT the typical way that track bikes are measured, not seatpost length?

Clearly I need to know both measurements, but unfortunately frame manufacturers aren’t consistent.
A day before you mentioned Dixie Flyer, my LBS sent me a pointer to their site where they list a 62cm frame, but the dimension is for the TT, but the seatpost length is only 58cm. There again no info about maximum seatpost length from center of BB to top of saddle rails. :-(

Incidentally, if I don’t get this Fuji Track Elite question sorted, my next first choice is a Cinelli Histogram in 64cm. According to their rough guidelines I am exactly in the middle, i.e. sweet-spot of their geometry, which would be a welcome thing vs. always being the upper limit (and in practice, me being too large for the “guidelines”).

L.Shaner

Thanks to all respondents. Good insights. I wish there was a +1 button to easily say how much I appreciate your specific input without bloating the thread with separate messages of thanks. :-/

Definitely focused on fit first. Seatpost length being the current constraint given that in general that most frame stock sizes are too small for me. :S

Incidentally, we have a new Velodrome in Detroit (Lexus Velodrome — google it), which is what has spawned my interest in a track bike.
I was at the track for orientation / Track 101 on Saturday and 5 out of 20 people were needing 61cm rental bikes or larger and the track ran out. :-(

Me thinks it is time for manufacturers to do a better job gauging the “N-th percentile” — people are trending taller in the last 30 years especially.
Blame it on the growth hormones fed to dairy cows that we as kids ingested by proxy. ;-)

L.Shaner

My legs are definetly the major source of height relative to torso, but my arms are also really really long, so I need a bike that is larger in every dimension, both seatpost maximum and effective Top-Tube a la reach. Really the Fuji Track Pro was very very close for legs and reach, except for the too short seatpost, so if I can sort the seapost issue the stock frame should be great. =D

Thanks so much! =D

700wheel

It looks like you are confusing seat tube and seat post. The former is measured from the BB center to the top of the seat tube. The latter is the sliding post to which the saddle is mounted. The seat post must be long enough to leave a few inches inside the seat tube when riding.

Baby Puke

Top tube is how you want to size these. The seat tube (not seat post) is normally much shorter in modern frames (track and road these days) because people want a lower headtube for TT bars and low sprint positions. You simply buy a longer seat post (this is the part that inserts into the seat tube) if you need your saddle to be higher. Your reach length (top tube + stem length + bar length) is much less adjustable than seat height.

Edit: 700 Wheel nailed it above. You will not see maximum seat height listed as a frame dimension.

L.Shaner

Not at all. The seat tube is the seat tube. But what I need to know for my long legs is the seat tube plus the seat post = maximum saddle height and the best way I can imagine that as a “universal” standard would be to measure it from the center of the BB to the top of the saddle rails.

If these bikes didn’t use proprietary seat posts we wouldn’t be having this conversation — I could just substitute any 27.2mm or 31.6mm and nevermind the short-sighted MFG considerations. :-/

Baby Puke

Dixie Flyer uses a traditional round seat post.

700wheel

I agree with you that such a dimension is important (both minimum and maximum) - maybe it could be called something like "seat stack length"

taras0000

This is the bike I was talking about earlier. Uses a 27.2mm seatpost.

https://www.bikeforums.net/20135973-post1634.html

brawlo

As @Baby Puke pointed out, the Dixie takes a standard round seat post. This opens you up to a very wide range of options that I'm sure should be fine for you.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with bike fit, but here's a basic rundown. The core of the process is getting your hips or saddle into the right position. That is based around things like knee over pedal position, leg and hip angles and if the fitter is good, around any physical limitations that you have. That saddle position then becomes fairly critical. Basically, you should be able to achieve that position on pretty much any frame you can get (that has a long enough seat post). From there, where your bars will be becomes dictated by your body dimensions, flexibility and the style of riding you will do. Track riding lends itself to a long and low position. That is essentially because track racing is much shorter than road racing, and so comfort is less of a concern when compared to aero. So track bikes in general are about more upright seatposts and longer top tubes.

So because you saddle position kind of becomes set in stone, the reach dimension becomes important. If you had a 55cm TT frame and a 59cm TT frame, the saddle in relation to the BB would be in exactly the same position on both bikes. If for arguments sake we then kept the seat tube angle and head tubes the same, the 59cm would afford a handlebar position that is 4cm longer than the 55. So the reach begins to become an important consideration when looking at frames, because the advertised size could be based on the top tube length, the seat tube length, the BB to top tube length and just about any other crazy dimension of the frame. So advertised sizes aren't a great idea for comparison. For all of that Cinelli's "size" at 64cm, it's reach 7mm shorter than the Fuji. But then it gets more complicated with head tubes being different and then it looks like the Cinelli may actually be a similar size.

TLDR I would go out and find or try to get rides on big framed bikes. See how they feel. Do you feel like you could stretch out more? Do you feel like you could get lower? I would buy something second hand and save some money, because from what you've said about your physical dimensions I would say you will be looking for something a fair bit bigger in the immediate future.

** I went back and looked at the Dixie 62cm dimensions (I think $ for $ and sizing this would be your best choice frame). I have a similar inseam to you and a standard 400mm seatpost would still be too short. My MTB has a 400mm seatpost and same seat tube length and it is too short. But only by about an inch. It's pretty easy to get longer (and much much longer) seatposts online though. E.g. SJS cycles in the UK have seatposts up to 600mm long that would fit!!

carleton

Mark my words: Simply look into custom aluminum or steel now and move on to the rest of your training and racing. You are chasing a ghost.

Take the geometry of a well respected frame and "upsize" it appropriately as the basis of your design.

This will likely be what you ultimately do today, 6 months from now, a year or 5 years from now. You'll also learn about seatpost issues with aero posts. They design them for 165lb small fellas. At 6'6", I can safely assume that you weigh more than that. That weight will be amplified every bump you hit on whatever tracks you race.

I'm a 6'1" "clydesdale" rider with strong legs, fat butt, and a gut. If a bike has a weakness, I'll find it. I'd imagine you might be similar (minus the fat butt and gut)

carleton

One more thing, Shaner.

If (when?) you start looking at having a custom track frame made:

- Make sure that you go with a builder that actually makes race bikes. Not a builder who makes fixed gear bikes that can be ridden on the track. There is a subtle but significant difference. This is where recommendations will come in handy, like that from @brawlo
- If possible, go and get fit with the builder and sit on his/her fit bike. Don't rely on email. Even if it involves traveling. It's worth it.
- If for some reason you cannot meet with the builder in person, after working with out the geometry, print it out and take it to a local bike fitter and have him/her plug it into their fit bike and you go sit on it. Take your track bars with you. Road bars are different enough to be off by a couple of centimeters.
- Ride it for a seaon. Take note of the good, bad, and ugly. Repeat the process.

Trust me. I've learned all of the above the hard (and very, very expensive) way: https://www.flickr.com/photos/carleton_hall

EDIT:

I know carbon is sexy. Winning is sexier

Nothing will frustrate you more than spending 1, 2, 3, or 4 THOUSAND dollars to have the seatpost slip down on you or the track ends allow the wheel to slip during standing starts or the saddle nose tilt on you while you sit on the rivet in turns 3-4 while you are shoulder to shoulder going 35mph. These all have happened on expensive, sexy bikes that rendered them useless to the pissed-off rider.

carleton

Even custom round-tubed carbon is an option:





This is Andy Lakatosh's Parlee. I think he won Silver at Elite Track Nationals in sprints that year (among other things). I also think he raced Six Days on it. Not sure. He did race Six Days around that same time frame. Having round tubes didn't slow him down.

Parlee's aren't cheap, though.

EDIT:

They are based in Massachusetts.

https://parleecycles.com/

They don't show Track frames in their current model lineup but they mention Track as an option on their Custom page.

SyntaxMonstr

Where can I find this cow melk?!
(5'8, 175 lbs, and in the bottom 25th percentile for male athletes =/)

southernfox

FWIW, I'm picking up a fuji track elite in a couple weeks and couldn't be more excited ^_^ (A 61cm; I'm 6'0" 90kg) And looking forward to an ERO fitting at an upcoming training camp.

Bikejock200M

Hey Southernfox, these look like a great frame. I am also interested in the Fuji Elite, 61cm too. Could you tell me where you sourced it, LBS, mail order etc?. I have some concerns about not dealing face to face with someone ,would rather see what I am getting. I have dealt with small local shops in the past, they appreciate the Big ticket item sales.
Good luck with ride, and where do race?

krispenhartung

I'm 5' 11" with a 32.5" inseam and I'm on a 56 frame.

My question on the Fuji Track Elite is if anyone besides myself is using it strictly for a TT/Ind Pursuit bike. I have an upgraded BMC Timemachine TR02 for everything else. I noticed the stem is totally jacked up on the stock Fuji Elite with all the spacers in it. I'm probably going to yank all of those, cut the tube, and recap it. I'm used to my TT bikes being pretty much as low as I can get them. I also have a Cobb 55 saddle on it and sit on the end of it. The stem is also longer than I am used too (100mm), I can't get my reach like I want it without the seat being too far forward. I have a 3T 90mm stem I'm thinking of putting on it as well.

Clythio

I'm also 1,83cm = 6'0", 92kg, and have a Fuji Track Elite 56-L 560mm effective TopTube, never thought about fitting myself on a 61-XXL, 595mm effective TopTube lenght. Wondering why did you pick such a long frame..

700wheel

You can locate dealers on the Fuji website. There are several in my area. The last time I was in Performance Bikes they had the Elite track bikes in stock.