Chinese Carbon Road Bars
05-30-15, 04:10 PM
#226
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Internet stranger : "This is the same exact product that the name brand sells but for a fraction of the price"
Internet buyer: "No way...prove it!"
Internet stranger: "I'll show you pics, because no pics no happen"
Internet buyer: "Wow, that looks legit!"
Internet stranger: "Look at our reviews by total internet strangers!"
Internet buyer: "Wow, those reviews are awesome...you can't fake those!"
Different Internet stranger: "Be careful of those, you may not know if they are telling the truth!"
Internet buyer: "STFU, you can't prove that they are lying!"
Internet buyer: "No way...prove it!"
Internet stranger: "I'll show you pics, because no pics no happen"
Internet buyer: "Wow, that looks legit!"
Internet stranger: "Look at our reviews by total internet strangers!"
Internet buyer: "Wow, those reviews are awesome...you can't fake those!"
Different Internet stranger: "Be careful of those, you may not know if they are telling the truth!"
Internet buyer: "STFU, you can't prove that they are lying!"
05-30-15, 05:01 PM
#227
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"They're made in the same factory which makes Schmipptragers!" (Just like the hamburger meat at McDonald's was made in the same cow that makes meat for the 4 Seasons)
06-01-15, 09:56 AM
#228
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I 100% guarantee they'll tell you they are a manufacturers and that they own their factory and all the tools. Try to find a China seller that doesn't make that claim.
And that is part of the problem; it's so hard to know for sure EVEN IF YOU GO THERE! I was given a tour of a frame factory and was told by those I was meeting with that they owned the factory only to find out later that this wasn't the case, that they were, in fact, just another trading company.
Or, they could be a factory that makes some products but not all. We work with one carbon vendor that makes rims, handlebars, stems and saddles but not frames. If they were a bit shady they could offer us frames that they themselves were buying from another factory.
Have a look at Alibaba and you'll see these 'factories' that have DOZENS of frame models to choose from. With each model having 3-5 molds for various sizing that means they claim to have upwards of 100 open molds just sitting there in the hopes that one day someone will place an order.
That's impossible.
These are just trading companies who gather up spec/drawings/photos from as many factories as they can find and toss them up on a website or on Alibaba waiting for someone to place an order. Once they receive the order they themselves place an order with the respective factory.
Or it could be a combination where I have a factory and my brother has a factory and my cousin and his sister have a factory and we all have access to each other's molds.
Any way you look at it transparency and accountability are really the things that are hard to come by in China. This isn't just true for the bicycle industry, it's true across all manufacturing sectors from toilet seats to telephones.
If you're really interred in this stuff go to uTube and search "Brits get rich in China". Pay close attention to who gets paid. The guy doing the kitchen countertops is, by far, my favorite.
And that is part of the problem; it's so hard to know for sure EVEN IF YOU GO THERE! I was given a tour of a frame factory and was told by those I was meeting with that they owned the factory only to find out later that this wasn't the case, that they were, in fact, just another trading company.
Or, they could be a factory that makes some products but not all. We work with one carbon vendor that makes rims, handlebars, stems and saddles but not frames. If they were a bit shady they could offer us frames that they themselves were buying from another factory.
Have a look at Alibaba and you'll see these 'factories' that have DOZENS of frame models to choose from. With each model having 3-5 molds for various sizing that means they claim to have upwards of 100 open molds just sitting there in the hopes that one day someone will place an order.
That's impossible.
These are just trading companies who gather up spec/drawings/photos from as many factories as they can find and toss them up on a website or on Alibaba waiting for someone to place an order. Once they receive the order they themselves place an order with the respective factory.
Or it could be a combination where I have a factory and my brother has a factory and my cousin and his sister have a factory and we all have access to each other's molds.
Any way you look at it transparency and accountability are really the things that are hard to come by in China. This isn't just true for the bicycle industry, it's true across all manufacturing sectors from toilet seats to telephones.
If you're really interred in this stuff go to uTube and search "Brits get rich in China". Pay close attention to who gets paid. The guy doing the kitchen countertops is, by far, my favorite.
| brett: oh hi
| Carolin: hi
| brett: where are the wheels made at?
| brett: what factory?
| Carolin: we have our own factory.
| Carolin: the rims are manufactured in China
| brett: oh I thought you were a re-seller
| Carolin: we manufacture the rims and sell the products.
| Carolin: which product do you need?
| brett: wheels
| Carolin: road or MTB?
| brett: but i wanna buy from the manufacturer
| brett: not a re-seller
| Carolin: we are the manufacturer
| brett: oh that is good
| brett: I had heard that hongfu and dengfu are only re-sellers
| Carolin: I have no idea for hongfu and dengfu
| brett: do you work at the factory or at another location?
| Carolin: our working place is not far from factory.
| brett: have you been to factory?
| Carolin: sure, we offen go to our factory.
| brett: so when i buy wheels you can go see if they are working on them?
| Carolin: do you mean whether it's OK to take some photos of your rims during manufacturing?
| brett: yes with iphone
| Carolin: take the photos with iphone?
| Carolin: we usually take the pictures with camera. OK?
| brett: yes
06-01-15, 10:00 AM
#229
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Well, if that's not definitive, I don't know what is.
06-01-15, 11:06 AM
#230
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Not surprised by the price difference. There's a lot to be said about buying right from the manufacturer. The LBS markup alone would be at least 50%. A store doesn't warehouse their own stuff. They likely buy from a wholesaling company in their region. They tack on a percentage as they. THey probably buy from someone else who does the same.
06-01-15, 11:30 AM
#231
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06-01-15, 01:26 PM
#233
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06-01-15, 04:41 PM
#234
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I read the thread in the beginning but was away a missed a few pages. When I came back I just clicked on the last page because I was too lazy to go back and sift through the bickering to find plot points.
Kinda like you just did?
Kinda like you just did?
06-01-15, 05:42 PM
#235
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Im sorry if you took that as an attack or judgement Bob, it struck me as funny, note the ,lol . It wasnt meant as sarcasm. I've been away for a while, I need to reaclimate.
06-04-15, 06:41 AM
#236
Newbie
I'm a fan of torque wrenches, beyond carbon bikes they are awfully useful, but I've worked as a mechanic in a car shop in the past so I get a little paranoid about using proper torque, a small 3/8 drive craftsman click-torque is cheap enough to warrant having on hand. ~30-40 bucks.
12-15-15, 10:55 PM
#237
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Direct from China carbon can be reasonably safe and affordable, but if you choose to go that route, buy from a company that actually has earned a decent reputation. You'll get less technically advanced open-mold designs instead of blatant counterfeits of cutting-edge stuff, but your odds of eating the pavement are significantly reduced.
12-16-15, 09:27 AM
#238
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Then you aren't looing very hard. There are 10X the number of cheap generic parts than there are 'branded' parts. Perhaps their design is inspired by or similar to the shape or appearance of a brand name item, but that does not a 'knock-off' make.
12-16-15, 06:03 PM
#239
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Unbranded doesn't give any indicator of a reputable source genius. Yeah I see tons of unbranded stuff on ali and eBay that are based off of existing shapes, but they're all sold by resellers with no information on who the manufacturer is. I bought an unbranded copy of a Specialized Romin saddle. The main logos were missing but it still had some of the model name branding. Just because it doesn't say Specialized, doesn't mean it wasn't a knock off. I use that term loosely and not with any negative connotation. I have no issue with surplus or "B" stock, but what I was inquiring about was original Chinese brands making original Chinese components. Handlebars or seatposts branded with Dengfu, etc., that don't carry the same marketing value (and therefore price) as Enve or 3T, but with known reputable manufacturing. Examples in apparel would be Chinese brands like Santic, Sahoo and Tiebao.
