Keeping in Shape for Hill Climbing in Winter?
#101
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As an aside, just as slope is harder to estimate than the original function, delta efficiency is harder to estimate than gross efficiency.
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Hmmm. Both Graeme Obree and Vittoria Bussi set world hour records at much lower cadence. F1 race cars run at much higher rpm than my Prius, but my Prius is much more efficient. And in several studies cited, power is held constant and cadence is varied while measuring efficiency.
Personally I find a cadence of around 80-85 is my optimum when riding at tempo. 60 feels way too laboured unless riding at very low power and then it doesn’t matter anyway. I certainly wouldn’t want to be riding at 60 rpm @ 250W on the flat for several hours. Even on a long climb I prefer to be well over 70 rpm if practical. At the other end of the scale I don’t like riding above 95 rpm for any length of time and usually only do so to generate power well above FTP for short bursts. At lower power, spinning at 100+ rpm just seems like a waste of leg movement!
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#105
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I like weights, indoor high heart beat workouts, and range of motion routines. I don't do do a lot of intervals, the winter is my off season, so I'm not really looking to improve, just tweek and maintain.I find nothing makes me better at going up hills than going up hills.
#108
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This efficiency thing is really quite simple and easy to understand. The definition of mechanical efficiency is the minimization of losses between inputs and outputs of the system. In the case of the bike rider, inputs are calories and outputs are kilojoules. We can measure both of those. The inputs are a bit hard to measure unless it's a multi-day effort, but the outputs are easy to measure. I'll simplify the output case by thinking only about crank and hub power meters. What they measure is torque. Our pedals are the origin of that torque. Only tangential forces contribute to torque. Therefore radial pedal forces are not seen by our power meters, and do not contribute to output.
I haven't seen a muscle activation study which shows that we actively slow our legs at any point in the pedal circle. To me, it feels like we allow the feedback in the system to help our legs change direction as they go around the circle.
I haven't seen a muscle activation study which shows that we actively slow our legs at any point in the pedal circle. To me, it feels like we allow the feedback in the system to help our legs change direction as they go around the circle.
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The "goal" of competitive cycling is to cover a course in the least amount of time. I suggest that for most cyclists, it's more important to minimize fatigue than to maximize efficiency. Especially for hill climbing, where leg muscles are heavily stressed, and they don't get a recovery break.
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Back to the OP: To maximize my climbing speed, I keep my butt in the saddle as much as possible. On a long climb, I'll stand for maybe 1 minute every 15 to change my muscle firing pattern briefly. Although as the climb goes on and on for over an hour and I get tired, I stop standing because my legs just won't allow it anymore. For sure, standing is less efficient for me. If standing is your thing, just standing on the trainer, varying cadence and resistance to simulate various climbing conditions. And of course strength training twice a week however you climb, working every muscle that's ever gotten tired on a bike ride.
In winter, on my rollers, I do a pedaling drill once a week, otherwise just the normal stuff: a good bit of Z2 steady state and the usual intervals. I didn't ride one winter and the result was so pitiful that I never did that again. I do "start over" in the fall. I take September off the bike and hike instead. Then I start back with mostly steady state on the rollers and cross training like fast walking and running. And of course I go to the gym starting with general strength training and progressing toward cycling specific training in May. I gradually add Z3 intervals, then a little Z5, then longer Z4 and eventually the hard stuff, but by then it's spring. In April (I think that's spring) I do low cadence climbing intervals once a week. My main goal, all the time, is don't get injured. That's the reason for stuff that doesn't seem directly climbing related. I never have been.
In winter, on my rollers, I do a pedaling drill once a week, otherwise just the normal stuff: a good bit of Z2 steady state and the usual intervals. I didn't ride one winter and the result was so pitiful that I never did that again. I do "start over" in the fall. I take September off the bike and hike instead. Then I start back with mostly steady state on the rollers and cross training like fast walking and running. And of course I go to the gym starting with general strength training and progressing toward cycling specific training in May. I gradually add Z3 intervals, then a little Z5, then longer Z4 and eventually the hard stuff, but by then it's spring. In April (I think that's spring) I do low cadence climbing intervals once a week. My main goal, all the time, is don't get injured. That's the reason for stuff that doesn't seem directly climbing related. I never have been.
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And easy to measure. Yet it doesn't seem that maximizing efficiency is worth caring much about.
The "goal" of competitive cycling is to cover a course in the least amount of time. I suggest that for most cyclists, it's more important to minimize fatigue than to maximize efficiency. Especially for hill climbing, where leg muscles are heavily stressed, and they don't get a recovery break.
The "goal" of competitive cycling is to cover a course in the least amount of time. I suggest that for most cyclists, it's more important to minimize fatigue than to maximize efficiency. Especially for hill climbing, where leg muscles are heavily stressed, and they don't get a recovery break.
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But studies have shown that radial forces are a necessary consequence of generating significant tangential forces. So radial forces do in fact contribute indirectly to output torque.
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No argument here. At a certain percentage of FTP, that's what happens and not a bad thing, just what happens. I'm just trying to delay that onset. I can hold that off up to almost 90%. On a long ride, like over 200k, I'd not exceed that. I tried enjoying myself in the hills once and regretted it.
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No argument here. At a certain percentage of FTP, that's what happens and not a bad thing, just what happens. I'm just trying to delay that onset. I can hold that off up to almost 90%. On a long ride, like over 200k, I'd not exceed that. I tried enjoying myself in the hills once and regretted it.
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And easy to measure. Yet it doesn't seem that maximizing efficiency is worth caring much about.
The "goal" of competitive cycling is to cover a course in the least amount of time. I suggest that for most cyclists, it's more important to minimize fatigue than to maximize efficiency. Especially for hill climbing, where leg muscles are heavily stressed, and they don't get a recovery break.
The "goal" of competitive cycling is to cover a course in the least amount of time. I suggest that for most cyclists, it's more important to minimize fatigue than to maximize efficiency. Especially for hill climbing, where leg muscles are heavily stressed, and they don't get a recovery break.
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They obviously never drove a 930.
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#117
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In northern Colorado, I rode 492 miles with 26,759 feet of climbing, plus 87 miles indoors, this January.
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January in "Sunny and Warm" California: 24 days, 43 hours ride time, 625 miles, 54,380 feet. A mix of inside and outside.
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Pretty big weather difference between Boulder and Loveland, though. DaveSSS is in Loveland, according to his bio.
Last edited by tomato coupe; 02-01-24 at 02:28 PM.
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D'oh. I was thinking of the Loveland Ski Area, at 10,800 feet. Currently sunny and a brisk 27ºF.
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Last edited by terrymorse; 02-01-24 at 03:00 PM.