Ubie

Getting the Contend AR 4 for the spawn. Shop is offering a good price and we're going to pick it up next Friday, but the shop mechanic made an offer I can't tell if it's worth it or not. Both for the price, and the relative improvement of the upgrade.

He has an unused Tiagra gruppo that he'll sell me for $400. Obviously this is a step up from the Claris currently on the bike and components-wise would make it about the equivalent of an AR 2, maybe a little better?

Problem is, I'm having a hell of a time figuring out if that's a good price or not. I did confirm this is the whole deal, brifters, derailleurs, cranks, cassette, etc, and most importantly hydraulic brakes. Everything except the hubs.

Assuming it is a good price for the set, I also don't know what to offer that isn't out of line or insulting to have him do the install. So any insight there would be appreciated too.

As for the rider, for reference: Nearly 16. Been riding a 2010 Stevens Super Prestige on loan for about the last 18 months but has outgrown it (hence the new ride). It has a full 1st generation SRAM Red set up with Paul cantilever brakes, so we know no matter what the shift feel and quality is going to be a down grade, but on the other hand the brakes will will better and need less futzing with. He doesn't ride a ton, and mostly rail trail at that. But we do a 100km ride in July every year and won't have a car for at least another year.

Any insights would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

Maelochs

If it is actually brand-new it is a good price ... My go-to group set provider, Merlin, won't even bother with 10-speed and Wiggle doesn't have Shimano at all.

No idea what to pay .... most of the work you could do yourself .... if you chose, and most do not. Thing is, if you are talking $600-$800 to upgrade the bike .... why not buy a better bike which comes with a better drive train?

Glad this is not my decision.

t2p

if the Tiagra group includes everything you listed - and also the brake lines and brake pads - $400 sounds reasonable ... if you plan to use everything or most everything from this group

( make sure the rotors are compatible - check if six bolt or center mount )

if (for example) you plan to use a different crank - and/or cassette - and/or rear derailleur - and/or rotors - another option might be warranted (?)

but just new take-off shifter/ brake assemblies, calipers w/pads, and brake lines (etc) can set you back around $200 or so (?)

( see my additional post below )

Ubie

The better bike with approx the same components wold be more. I'm looking at $840 + $400 + install (yeah, i'm not doing it myself).
The Contend AR 2, which has a similar set up to where I would wind up is listing at above $1950 CAD and still only have mechanical disc brakes. About $1450 USD (I don't see it on the US site, so had to convert).
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/ca/contend-ar-2

The AR 1 has a 105 set up, but is about $1950 US
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/contend-ar-1

t2p

I’m in the process of changing a bike from Sora 9 speed / mech disc to 10 speed / hydraulic disc

using new / take-off Tiagra 10 speed shifter / brake assemblies and calipers

the new / take-off Tiagra shifter / brake assemblies, calipers, front and rear derailleurs, cassette, chain cost around $200

(not using the derailleurs, cassette, chain - they will prob go to a different build)

t2p

big question -

which model number are the Tiagra shifter / brake assemblies ?

if 4700 - I would pass

4720 and 4725 (short reach) are preferred over 4700

.

Maelochs

So ... an AR2 runs about $1600-$1700 maybe max with upgrade installed ..... Okay ...

I assume he might still grow a few inches? I don't know, I don't have kids.

Contend AR1--https://www.giant-bicycles.com/ca/contend-ar-1 CA $2,689 The AR2 (Thanks for the links by the way) is CA $1,989 (about US $1,463.50. or so the internet claims.) I don't mind cable discs but if you are going to upgrade ... Upgrade! Go hydro.

If you can get the AR4 for US $1700 .... The AR4 has an FSA rather than a Shimano crank set (see if the new group includes crank set (I personally have no issue with FSA--have it on my Fuji, and a comparable Shimano crank on a Workswell, and see no difference) ) and the same wheels as the AR3 and AR2.

It really depends how long the rider is going to fit on this bike. And, I guess, how long you want the bike to last. I like the Contend/Defy line as road bikes (one of my Workswells is based on a sort-of Defy copy frame) .... And afterwards, you will still have the Tiagra group set.

I have no clue what the best path might be, but the price for the group set (assuming it really is complete and new) is quite friendly, and whatever it costs to install ... so long as the mechanic isn't a crook, and you seem to trust him ....

Better to do the upgrade I guess, rather than buy a higher-tier bike.

shelbyfv

Note that Tiagra and Claris are both being replaced by CUES. You'll have an orphan group either way. I expect the kid would be just as well served by the Claris, wouldn't pay that much more for Tiagra. JMO.

veganbikes

It is going to be a massive downgrade and with Tiagra it will be a minor upgrade but not into anything I would want and not at the price I would want to pay. 1100 for Claris and proprietary seatpost...eek. I could get the bottom end Specialized Allez for $100 less it is rim brakes but that is not a deal breaker but even then I wouldn't really want to pay that much for Claris. I would say Allez Elite but that is maybe a bit much however it would stick with SRAM which might be an easier transition from SRAM to SRAM though I liked it better when it was 105 and $1500.

If they are serious about racing and riding get them a good bike. If nothing else prioritize the groupset being top end and swap it to a new frame if they grow more

Maelochs

Not true by the way. CUES is a purely off-road gruppo, with no brifter option.

I do agree though, that if the rider will only be on the bike for a couple or few season. modern Claris is plenty good .... but it is a matter of personal preference.

Since this rider isn't racing the very slight loss of efficiency between the two group sets is irrelevant (to me.)

Not so long ago 16 gear options was considered top-of-the-line. Lance the drug addict, I believe, won quite few notable races riding such a set-up.

Depends on budget and personal preference.

I'd go for 105 .... if I were going to go big i would actually go big, and get a group which is lighter and feels a little better .... that would be a bike I would never outgrow ... on the other hand your son might outgrow the Contend in two years, so ......

shelbyfv

Yep my bad, thanks for the correction. I read this "Shimano has also hinted strongly that drop-bar variants of Cues will come in the future, phasing out Tiagra, Sora and Claris" and my pea brain just ran with it.

Maelochs

I did exactly the same thing.

PeteHski

Doesn't sound worth upgrading to me.

eduskator

I'd keep my money as well. OEM bike seems good.

Maelochs

Not sure a Defy/Contend (max 32-mm tires, I think) is optimal for rail trails. Adequate, if they are well-groomed.

Ubie

Max 38, comes with 32. He test rode it on the trail we rode most often, and 32 is what he's been riding on the Stevens so we know it's good.

Probably going to leave it as is, unless the shop guy sweetens the deal a bit to make it foolish not to do.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

Maelochs

Excellent news in every respect.

t2p

$400 or around there is prob fair price for that stuff - ? - especially if it includes the brake lines and pads (new / combined can set you back around $100) - so if they sweeten that would be worth consideration

it’s only money ... grin ... compare to one SRAM cassette that can retail for $400

WT21

Any information on why these are preferred over 4700? In what ways?

aliasfox

If the Stevens is still in rideable/serviceable condition, is there an opportunity to just port the components over to a larger frame? Alternatively, if he’s 16, he’s still got another five years or so to grow, so even a Giant that fits now might not fit him by the time he’s 20 or so. If it’s only of by a little bit now, maybe refitting the Stevens with a longer seatpost and stem to tide him over for another year or two would be the most cost effective option.

From the perspective of someone who tinkers and does most of his own work, I’m just slightly morally opposed to 10-sp Tiagra. Given that it isn’t compatible with 10sp 105, Ultegra, or Dura-Ace, there’s no piecemeal upgrade path. And while it’s compatible with 11-sp, you’re still stuck running Tiagra shifters unless you want extra clicks that don’t do anything (I think, at least).

Also, definitely ask how much he’s charging for labor. For example, I once brought a bike into a shop for a brake cable change because I didn’t have time to do it myself. Cables and housing weren’t that expensive, but installation and (crucially) rewrapping the bars with fresh tape more than doubled the cost.

Edit to correct the autocorrect

Ubie

The Stevens went back to the original owner. We stuck with the Claris. The Spawn, barring something drastic happening is done growing. He grew less than 1/2" in the last year, 6' is going to be it for him.

t2p

4720 (and 4725) were redesigned with improved ergonomics and resemble the new / current 105 shifter / brake assemblies

4700 (top) and 4720 (bottom) pictured above